General Discussions
General Discussions
Why Killers usualy get nerfs in perks way faster than Survivors?
Don't belive me? Okay so old DS, then old reworked DS. DH. For years btw. CoH too many months as well. Now MFT seems to go just wait it out lol maybe next year road as well.
Meanwhile... Eruption? Solved within 2-3 big patches, same as other gen kicking perks, buffed Thana nuked next patch, etc.
Why? Why Killer perks can be solved within 3 months and Survivors perks take 8+ months to solve or even year(s).
Comments
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I think I have a good reason as to why, from a development/balance standpoint.
Killer perks effect 4 other players compared to survivor perks effecting 1 per match. If a perk is far too powerful, it will show that it hinders more players on average than a survivor perk. It's probably why MFT is taking so long to change, as it doesn't really effect killers that can close the gap easier so that's less of a statistic than say, Eruption/CoB's old meta.
This is purely speculation though. As of right now survivors have a problem with Ultimate Weapon and we're not sure if that's getting changed anytime soon or not, so that would be an example of a killer perk not nerfed fast.
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How long did it take Mettle of Man to be changed?
I think they waited just long enough so people couldn’t refund the DLC.
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Yeah let’s forget how it took 3 months to nerf undying when it was super busted but it took just weeks to nerf MoM. Also let’s pretend like it didn’t take them no time to nerf boil over that wasn’t OP but was just annoying.
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Honestly thats also a comprehension issue with players who bought ash just for that reason. There's no way any person with a clear mind would think that Mettle of Man upon release would last long when it was just a free health state for playing the game normally.
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I’ll be honest I was on a DBD break during that time. My Ashley was level 1 until they changed Buckle Up. I think someone gifted it to me too, I never was crazy about him anyway.
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Sometimes it takes a long time to nerf Survivor perks, sometimes it takes a long time to nerf Killer perks, that's just the ebb and flow of things. Most people tend to just remember things from the perspective of the side they play the most.
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Think the game would had legit died if they kept MoM that way for years, it was a Pay to Win perk.
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Kinda echoing what ChaosWam wrote but it's probably easier to nerf killer things because killer is just 1 person and can be easier gauged on what might be overbearing statistically. Whereas there are 4 survivors, 2 of them may have DH but neither of them are very good at using it so it doesn't really affect killrate much.
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Whatever side BHVR takes longer to nerf Irrelevant. You should be asking why it takes them so long to make meaningful and heathy changes, if they can even still make healthy changes, compared to releasing often buggy and unfinished content.
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Don't forget that they need to keep the survivors happy so they keep buying Feng skins. If 4 people are being affected by something and those four people spend more money together than 1 person chances are they get priority. The devs need skin purchases.
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Simple reason really.
Killers you can track individual performance on better with particular perks. If all killers are running the same perk regardless of differing play styles snd abilities, easy sign the perk is overtuned.
Survivors however are the same, so these perks get measured against all different killers, with varying degrees of effectiveness vs. said different killers. Combine that with the fact there are 4 survivors with 4 different loadouts, simply there are more variables to consider for survivor perks.
WoO for example is the most used survivor perk right now, some think OP, some don't, but its hard to prove, because that perk is gonna be less effective vs. Nurse and Xeno compared to Dredge and Ghost Face, and even then it won't be effective against every Dredge and Ghost Face or similar killer.
The phenomenon you're seeing to my mind is simply an expected pattern of an asym game.
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Boil over was buffed then immediately nerfed in two weeks as well as Thana. The buff was problematic and they reversed it, but no one remembers.
Eruption was nerfed in 9 months, the gen kick meta outlived even that until they eventually had to also nerf overcharge and call of brine. Which, for the record, still didn't fix the problem of 3 genning (for the most part) until skull merchant was finally reworked too.
And there were 6 of 8 weeks in there too where merciless storm was bugged and deleting entire gens worth of progress without being kill switched.
The only difference here is how much some people are desperate to say it's the game's fault and not their own gameplay. It won't matter, because people will just move the goal post again and we'll be back to complaining about Sprint burst, lithe, or the next perk to be released.
MfT isn't losing people games, just like it wasn't DS, dead hard, prove thyself, BNP, or circle of healing either.
The only thing is that people largely believe that complaining loudly, early, and as often as possible gets the devs to nerf things...
And that's easier than either getting better at the game, or even admitting you aren't already a god at DbD to begin with.
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Last time I checked, Ultimate Weapon is still in the game even though it causes people to scream while in a locker which has been posted on here by a Mod that is not supposed to be happening.
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Money my friend, just money
Why do you think they made a so broken perk like MTF ? just to sell the chapter. Why they are not nerfing it ? Because it's so OP and alredy in meta that they want to sell the chapter more
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mft is just a marketing move atp. they need more happy survivors and sell more gabriel dlcs.
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Because they decided to start doing regular perk overhauls with update 6.1. They said at the time that going forward we'd see more perk touch ups more frequently. So that's why perks like Eruption seemingly got change so quickly - it was part of their regular perk update schedule.
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the dev balance perks off two main things. Stats and player feedback. In term of player feedback, survivor have 4x as much feeedback as killer do, so whenever a killer perk strong, it is 4x as loud. that is one reason to why killer perk get demolished quickly while survivor perks stay the same. there is just not as much killer feedback on survivor perks because it is only 1 player.
Now look a stats. Using stats to try figure out strength of a survivor perk is hard using stats to try figure strength of survivor perk is hard because if someone has strong survivor perk but you have weak survivor perks, you benefit from your teammates perks to escape. for example, I could be running worthless survivor perks in the game like red herring, this is not happening, teamwork: collective stealth and deception and still escaping because my teammate plays well and loops killer for entire match while I just sit on gens. The perk could be doing nothing but I could still be escaping especially because a lot of survivor's strength in their base-kit gameplay. The player who has good build can still die so it does not reflect in escape rate of the player.
With killer perks and add-on, there is no teamwork element. As a result, the 1-2-3-4k is precise accurate measurement of killer's success so if killer has 20% 4 man escapes, 14% 3 man escapes, 11% 2 kill-rate, 28% 3k, 27% 4k -rate. by adding 3k and 4k's, they can easily figure if a killer perk over performs on any killer if it reaches above a targeted average. Survivor data tells nothing, killer data is generally accurate due to 4vs1 nature of the game.
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DS passively nerfed 6 times.
DH wasnt "strong". DH was nerfed because survivors generally getting alot better and better through years that made DH become the strongest perk. You dont hear any complain about DH far back to 2020 and previous.
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As someone who has been playing since 2017, I can assure you that Dead Hard has always been broken and complained about. From what I can remember BHVR even had an entire section on upcoming Dead Hard changes in one of their weekly streams and how they were planning on updating it so it was less frustrating as back then it had no animation and the way the speed curve worked allowed survivors to fly over gaps or reach unintended areas and hold the game hostage.
And then after that there were WAY more broken things to complain about. Sprint Burst recovered mid-chase, DS was a free health state, Balanced turned certain maps into infinites. Plus no one really used it for distance back then because pallet vacuum gave you that for free and double pallets made it so you never needed to extra distance because you were never more than 10 steps from a pallet.
Yes survivor got better and that made Dead Hard stronger (although overtime it became less skilful as everyone just pressed E for distance), but the main reason it wasn't the 'strongest perk' back then was because we had other broken stuff to play with. The game evolved but Dead Hard didn't which is why it become so popular before its nerf. It was the last of the broken perks to be nerfed.
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Because all BHVR care about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Boil over wasnt op???
Just annoying????
Let me introduce the rpd library squad to you.
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RPD library exist means the perk was op?
I could bring Cold wind hooks spawn bug to prove Boil over useless.
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Saying boil over was OP because of one map terribly designed map location is like saying Starstruck + agitation was OP because of nurse before.
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So a bug meant that boil over was ok?
The bug was also extremely broken, don't get me wrong.
Survivors where literally able to hold a game hostage when used in a 4man swf.
If that's not op, I do t know what is....
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It wasn't just rpd though...
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And we know how horrible BHVR’s map design is so obviously there are multiple abuse spots lol. Doesn’t make the perk itself problematic. It would’ve been fine the way it was if those spots didn’t exist.
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But what does it mean to get rid of these spots???
What are these spots to begin with? Normally they are on high elevations or basement-like structures (Badham).
That includes almost every main building in dbd.
So.
You want to change all maps or the one perk that makes them even worse than they are.
In my opinion, the Perk has to go.
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Boil Over was not OP. It was (and still is) bad gamedesign. But it was not OP because people who brought Boil Over will not really help to win the game.
They just play to be annoying.
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I usually got them in a 4man swf.
They send me to a preferable map and basicly took the game hostage.
Best example is the library on rpd. All four up there tbagging. A perk that lets me not hook survivors permanently is a bit overpowered in my opinion.
Agree to disagree i guess.
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I fully expect MFT to be untouched for at least another 6 months, guaranteeing even more nurses/blights/etc. to get around it.
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It seems like OP is letting their biases get the better of them...
Whispers- was updated in patch 1.0.5... but other then that it wasn't touched
Deerstalker- last update was 2.6.3
Autodidact- hasn't been changed at all
Resilience- hasn't been changed at all
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