Worst perk variety DBD has ever had?
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Best survivor perks are extend chasing time. MFT fits exactly in the category. Best killer perks are extend the time available for them, which are slowdowns.
For how the game works fundamentally, those will always be meta.
I think of the opposite, all perks should be weak equally!
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That would be why I don't want them to do that, at least right now. I don't personally want them to adjust the meta, as I believe it's in a largely healthy spot right now.
Though, for the record, nerfing them to be less appealing doesn't have to mean making them weak. Even 6.1.0 had some examples of this- Iron Will is still a perfectly good perk, to pick one. I also don't think survivors are as perk reliant as you're making out, though I do agree with the argument that basekit killer has more to leverage than basekit survivor.
I also want this! I just think it's a mistake to assume that doing this would mean the top ten most picked perks are really going to change much. Unless something becomes stronger than the meta picks (or more convenient, to account for meta perks that aren't strong at all like Windows), people largely won't bother even acknowledging that buffed stuff is worth using.
See again, the way people talk about new Gearhead, Furtive Chase, Crowd Control, Claustrophobia... People have a very high threshold before they even consider new stuff.
Buffing the weaker stuff for an even larger spread of viable perks is a good idea on its face, and I want to see it done. It's just separate to what would be required to make the meta change, at least in any noticeable way.
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Yeah I've seen very little builds other than mine and my friends because when playing we want to be fair, but of course no survivor mains have that logic. I'll be over here though suffering on slinger because people only run windows mft resilience and hope like what am I supposed to do there. Lose?
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then the game is gonna get boring pretty fast
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Monstrous Shrine: all scourge hooks perks also apply to basement
Red Herring: teammates see the perk icon in the lower corner when the perk is active and the highlighted gen as well. When the killer kicks the gen, all survivors see their aura for 5 seconds.
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It was eventual in my opinion.
Surely 6.1.0 patch did reduce certain perks having very high rate but now people are using the perks that are impactful and better than the ones which got hard nerf.
To prevent this, there should be more frequent perk updates but it is needless to say how slow and empty DbD patches are.
Post edited by lav3 on1 -
Things right now are a little bit better than they were a few years ago. BT+DS+DH+UB (with the occasional swapping of 1 perk for OoO in a 4-man SWF) was on every single survivor in red ranks. Perk variety right now isn't very good, but there's a few meaningful choices. There's a pool of maybe ten survivor perks that get commonly run versus the old set of five.
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Yeah you are completely right about that. Which is why I'm fine with the current meta for the most part. The meta will pretty much always be the same just with a different coat of paint. As long as it isn't oppressive like Eruption or Dead Hard then I don't mind it.
MfT is probably the only problematic perk in the current meta and even then I would gladly take that over the old meta any day.
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Monstrous Shrine: all scourge hooks perks also apply to basement
It already does that.
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Well a lot of perks are useful but in a lot of dbd's players eyes if it isn't just turn off brain to get value then its worthless.
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nothing will ever be worse than the gen kick meta
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Survivors rely on exhaustion perks because they want easy wins not because they absolutely need them.
You don't NEED exhaustion perks. You don't NEED to rush gens. You don't NEED to bodyblock for teammates.
Those who do it, do it because it's easier. It's easier to win if you immediately pop 3 gens and have 4 exhaustion perks in your team.
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It doesn't
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AGREED👆🏻
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For everyone saying the pre 6.1.0 meta (DS/UB/BT/DH/IW) was worse for Killers to deal with, I have to hard disagree. 3 of them are hard disabled by chasing anyone other than the rescuer, and the other 2 provide the same 'they get injured and get value for free' problem MfT and Resilience both are claimed to have. Being able to disable 2/3 of the Survivors perks is MASSIVE. Now you can disable 1/2 of the Survivors perks through skill (Hope/Adren), but if all are playing hyper-gen efficient (which luckily Survivors rarely ever do), you can't always stop them in time. I think the current Surv meta is less enjoyable to deal with as Killer.
Killer meta for Surv though, gotta hard agree with the degen 3gen kick meta. A smart pig or dolphin or dog could win a match with a spacebar alone in that meta. Someone else coined 'MMR-inflation', and I think many Killers got free wins thinking they were skilled. The perks artificially inflated their MMR above their weight-class, and now they are losing a bunch and thinking the game was wrong for their losses. They are partially correct, the past of the game (degen 3gen kick) was responsible for their current losses, not the present.
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Yes it does? It says so right there on the wiki. It's been that way for over a year now.
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Only for Monstrous Shrine, since all other scourge hooks only affects 4 normal hooks.
In case of the monstrous shrine, it affects 4 random hooks + basement, but other scourge hook perks don't trigger in the basement. HOWEVER, I tested this when the perk received the buff and never since. I also never seen any Pain Resonance being triggered by the basement hook (although monstrous shrine by itself is already rare). Unless it was a bug at that time. Definitely something to test now.
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It must have been a bug, because I tested it with bots and I could get Pain Resonance and Floods of Rage to proc off of the basement hooks thanks to Monstrous Shrine.
Monstrous Shrine turns the basement hooks into scourge hooks and they operate the same as the regular four scourge hooks.
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The worst survivor meta was pre 6.1.0 update days when every survivor ran DH, DS, Adrenaline, and either Resilience or Deliverance. Survivors were virtually untouchable and even people who weren’t good at the game got free escapes because this build virtually carried them. Even worse was pre-“conspicuous action” days when survivors could pop a gen in your face and DS would still activate. A horrible meta which encouraged really toxic and unfair gameplay.
For killer, my vote goes to the gen-kick meta pre-Eruption nerf. What were they thinking? A meta which disincentivised the funnest aspect of the game (chases), and encouraged killers to play gen-kick sim for 15 minutes.
The current meta is stale, too. We need another 6.1.0-style perk shake-up again, tbh. But instead of reworking 5 or so perks to be really strong, they need to rework like 20 and make them all strong across the board. Survivors and killers are incentivised to use like the same 5-10 perks as they’re the only useful ones. Why would a survivor use , for example, something like This Is Not Happening or Slippery Meat over MfT or Adrenaline? There’s just no reason to use like 60-70% of the perks unless you’re doing a meme build. I’d happily miss out on a chapter if it gave BHVR more time/money to make better changes to the game.
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Buffed Perks: Furtive Chase (7.3.0), Coup de Grace (7.1.0), Claustrophobia (7.1.0), Hex: Crowd Control (7.1.0), Trail of Torment (7.1.0), Remember Me (7.1.0), Pop Goes The Weasel (7.0.0), Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance (6.7.0.), Gearhead (6.7.0)
For comparison: Furtive Chase had a pickrate of 0.51% and increased to 1.35%. Trail of Torment 1.17% to a high of 3.15%. And that in a perk-pool of 112 Killer-Perks.
There are even more perks but I feel like these are enough. On the other hand a lot of perks for survivors and killers were nerfed. And if we look further, we see basekit medkit changes and a lot of smaller buffs towards killers. But hey, no love for killers, right?
It's not that you are forced to pick game-delaying perks - it's just that most killers are not as good as they think they are. That's just the reality for even both sides.
Based on nightlight, which of course does not reflect the whole game, the second most used build is actually a chased oriented build. That of course does not work on ever killer but I have seen a lot more variety on the killer sides since the 3-gen-kick meta which should by the way never come back. We see Anti-Gen, Aura-Reading, Information, Chase Tools, Stealth-Perks etc. The variety of viable perks is actually there even if you don't use it.
My point is, that killers have a lot more variety than before and they received quite a few buffs that matter.
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perhaps what i was unclear for what i was trying to say. I am saying that a vast majority of killer perks are of the same type where perk variety is low for killer. Just look a top 10 perks in the game and look what type they are.
Pain res -> Geme delay
Pop -> game delay
Jolt -> Game delay
Corrupt intervention -> Geme delay
BBQ ->Information
Lethal pursuer -> Information
Sloppy -> game delay/Lethality
Stbfl -> Chase/Lethality
Nowhere to hide -> information
Deadlock -> game delay
I was like extend list to 2 other perks and 1 other perk combo.
Eruption -> game delay
No way out -> game delay.
Ultimate weapon+DMS -> game delay+info.
like 8-9/14 are game delay perks. 4 of 14 are information perks. Two of the perk are related to counter healing and health-states speed boosts like endurance. If you go next used perks, then you get to discordance which is info perk so 5 perks and then there the list of chase perks being bamboozle, brutal strength and... noed. Survivor perk are not all the same type. Sure exhaustion perks/chase perk stand out for survivor but most of the perk types they are using are varied. For killer? Not so much. low variety.
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If I may ask, what kind of variety are you hoping for then? Personally I see a good variety in what perks are currently played:
Slowdown (Healing- & Repairing-Reduction, Blocked Objectives), Information & Tracking (Aura-Reading, Screams), Lethality (Shorter Cooldowns, Exposed etc.), Stealth & Confusion (Undetactable, Oblivious, Terror Radius Change), Chase (Faster, Hindered) and Miscellaneous (FOV, Items, Hooks, Scratch Marks, etc.) are the categories I would put perks in. If I look at the 30 most used perks I have this summary:
- Slowdown: 1 SH: Pain Resonance; 2 Pop Goes The Weasel; 3 Jolt; 6 Corrupt Intervention; 7 Sloppy Butcher; 10 Deadlock; 17 No Way Out; 18 Eruption; 24 Overcharge; 26 Dead Mans Switch; 29 H: Ruin;
- Information & Tracking: 4 BBQ & Chili; 5 Lethal Pursuer; 7 Sloppy Butcher; 9 Nowhere To Hide; 13 Ultimate Weapon; 16 Discordance; 18 Eruption; 19 A Nurses Calling; 30 Tinkerer;
- Lethality: 8 STBFL; 15 H: NOED;
- Stealth & Confusion: 21 Fearmonger; 28 H: Plaything; 30 Tinkerer;
- Chase: 11 Bamboozle; 14 Brutal Strength; 20 Enduring; 25 Rapid Brutality;
- Miscellaneous: 12 Shadowborn; 22 Agitation; 23 Lightborn; 27 Iron Grasp;
Now let's do the same thing for Survivor Perks.
Objective (Speed Increase for Gens, Totems and Exit Gates; Protection; Promotes Objective), Information (Aura-Reading & Notifications), Chase (Haste & Useful Tools), Survivability (Endurance, 2nd Chances, Self-Healing), Support (Effects for Others, Rescues, Healing Speed), Stealth & Confusion (Tracking- and Notification-Blocks, Scratch Marks, Blinds)
- Objective: 3 Resilience; 6 Déjà Vu; 10 Prove Thyself; 19 Blast Mine; 20 Inner Healing;
- Information: 1 Windows Of Opportunity; 6 Déjà Vu; 8 Bond; 13 Kindred; 19 Blast Mine; 29 Empathy;
- Chase: 1 Windows Of Opportunity; 2 Made For This; 4 Resilience; 5 Lithe; 7 Sprint Burst; 13 Hope; 17 Balance Landing;
- Survivability: 2 Made For This, 3 Adrenaline; 9 Dead Hard; 12 Unbreakable; 14 Off The Record; 16 Self-Care; 20 Inner Healing; 22 Decisive Strike; 25 Boil Over; 26 Background Player; 27 Deliverance;
- Support: 15 We'll Make It; 18 Botany Knowledge; 24 Flash Bang; 26 Background Player;
- Stealth & Confusion: 11 Distortion; 14 Off The Record; 17 Balance Landing; 19 Blast Mine; 21 Iron Will; 23 Quick & Quiet; 24 Flash Bang; 25 Boil Over; 28 Calm Spirit; 30 Lightweight
I am sure the way I have categorized these perks don't fit for everyone, but I assume it kinda makes sense though. But based on this summary; I can just repeat that I don't think the varation compared to each side is tremendously different. Sure changes are always welcome but this is nothing compared to the point Dead by Daylight was a few years ago. Anyways, I am curious about what you have to say!
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the survivor perk are more varied in what they do. people run exhaustion perks on survivor but beyond that, there is variation in survivor gameplay. survivor perk variety has definitely improved since last year.
that is not true for killer. killer perks are not varied in effect. the game is heavily dominated by game-delay perks for killer. The average killer build is like 3 game delay perks and maybe 1 information. you should see that already by the fact that your first two categories is 20/30 perks while your other categories have like 6 perks. This is not talking about how... last category of perks is like perks such as... shadowborn and Lightborn.
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I think we have a much bigger variety now than ever before; Survivors have Buckle Up + For The People; MFT + DH; Boons and Overzealous; etc.
Killer have less variety of perks, but at least have some. Lethal or Corrupt for early game/ Pop and/or Pain Ress for Gen Regression/ Sloppy and Save the Best for m1 killers.
I wish they buff weaker perks (not adding Endurance or haste to them, but doing new things) so they become more useful.
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Now it is for sure, we've so much perk bloat I wish I could just remove all the countless, useless perks off my selection menu.
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