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Why is Windows NOT a strong perk?
I think Windows is a strong perk. I see it in a majority of my matches both when I play killer and solo survivor. Generally on at least two survivors, but all players who aren’t me using it isn’t a rare occurrence. So for a perk so ubiquitous in the survivor meta right now, for those who thinks it’s just average can you tell me why I’m wrong to think it’s strong?
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UW isnt strong because its still up for killer to get a down
WoO isnt strong because its still up for survivor to make a loops.
I just use the same logic.
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"UW isnt strong because its still up for killer to get a down"
Now who said this because UW doesn't even require you to get a down, it's a press space at locker and know where everyone is for 30 seconds straight type of perk... We need to talk.
Edit: I read it wrong don't mind me LOL.
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Now am I reading this wrong or what, where did op even mention UW?
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from my experience the perk is as strong as the person who uses it
I’ve seen people just either pre dropping + autopilot with the perk or others becoming uncatchable
i used to run it myself but when I heard about the “nerf” (which was a bug) I dropped instantly and started playing without it
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I see Windows like how I see BBQ or Whispers
It makes sure youre at/heading to the right place
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It is a very strong perk. It bridges the skill gap between players, who know maps and players who don't. WoO also shows you exactly how to run (because you know the exact location of all resources around you).
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It's strong. But nowhere near strong enough to warrant a nerf
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Imo WoO is there to "fight with map's random".
Is it strong...? I would say yes.
Does it need a nerf? Absolutely not.
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I would argue that WoO itself isn't that strong.
It does provide useful information that solo q players can be lacking which can make it worth the slot. The real strength of WoO comes from maps having strong chainable tiles that WoO highlights.
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I'm curious on WoO's placement once MFT nerf goes through.
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It's not a strong perk largely because it doesn't really do much.
Windows of Opportunity is an info perk, so the assumption is that it gives you information you wouldn't have access to otherwise. However, Windows just shows you... map resources. That's information you do have access to without the perk, Windows just eases the burden of remembering where they all are. It's nice to have it, I won't begrudge or condemn anyone for running it, but you can hardly call it strong on those merits.
The one thing it does do is show you which pallets have been dropped by teammates, that's info you wouldn't have otherwise. That's decent, it's perfectly serviceable, but I wouldn't call that 'strong' either.
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It gives you perfect information on all resources within a very large radius around you. That sounds like a pretty strong perk to me.
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The agenda against windows is one of those things I genuinely can't figure out. It's something that primarily benefits solo queue players. You have literally no way of knowing which pallets your random teammates have used. No amount of skill or map knowledge can tell you if the pallet you're running to is still going to be up. Solo queue is already borderline unplayable and killing windows would make it even more difficult than it already is because everyone would be running into deadzones like headless chickens. It'd be even worse than you'd initially think considering the new map reworks have so few pallets and already have massive deadzones from the start. All windows really does is give casual players information that SWFs already have. It doesn't just suddenly make you a good player.
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It is a strong perk bur it's only as strong as the player using it that's good perk desine even if it is strong
Unlike mft that just boost the player wich is why I like the rework mft
I'm still gonna complain when it gets used againt me but I made the mistake of hitting when they have endurance
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doesn't do much? WoO makes you never run into dead-zones. it is definitely top 5 perk for soloq.
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It also shows where random vaults have spawned in certain structures.
There's a clear reason most successful solo and SWF players use it.
I use it - it 100% carries
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Like I said, the application it does have is that it'll show you what resources your teammates used. That's decent, but it's hardly all that strong- it's not the same as never running into deadzones, because sometimes you don't have a choice in that, but it does mean you aren't likely to do it accidentally.
For all other instances, it does nothing you can't do without it. It's fine, there's nothing wrong with it in either direction, but it's consistently portrayed as being way stronger than it actually is.
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It IS a strong perk.
Personally I think they should bring back the cooldown after vaulting, having ESP to every safe spot on the map is just lame and makes chases incredibly boring, predictable and repetitive as Killer, turning a high intensity chase into pallet kicking simulator.
It's not OP, but boy is it ever so terribly boring.
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I didnt quote from the OP. Just telling why WoO isnt op.
To be fair, I think survivors should always know where titles are to make play of looping/chaining. Given the same knowledge, the different is only which survivors make the best loops/chaining titles play.
Hoping WoO nerf is like hoping survivors run into death zones for a free down, which no skill needed on killers.
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It's a good value, low effort perk. Both sides have them.
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It is a strong perk. The argument people make is that it isn't broken or OP. I think all survivors are aware of how useful the perk is.
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WoO is very strong perk, but doesn't deserve nerf at all. It is like killers' STBFL and Sloppy Butcher.
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It is powerful, but IMO in the same way BT was powerful prior to it being base kit. It lets you know which pallets in your vicinity are still up, something SWF comms can tell you but current survivor basekit cannot. IMO windows cannot be nerfed without significant buffs to survivor basekit or nerfs to killer (probably the former in the form of a weaker windows basekit)
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It's quite useful in solo queue and/or for players who haven't developed a really strong sense for map/tile layout.
But to some degree, I see it as a little bit of a "training wheels" perk, and suspect it holds back beginner players from leaning some things organically.
But it's nowhere near strong enough to warrant a nerf. When playing killer I'd be perfectly fine with my opponents all running WoO instead of something stronger, and tbh I'm a little surprised to see it as often as I do. As a surv, I think I've run it maybe ~20 times in all the years I've been playing; I'd rather run something better.
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"tbh I'm a little surprised to see it as often as I do"
Tbh I'm not. I never touched it once in 2.5 years, but started using it regularly several months ago. I think a combo of things has made it popular, such as new map reworks generally cutting down pallets (particularly safe ones) and having more deadzones. Also SBMM has gone up the wazoo somewhere along the line, and it's good to know which resources your team mates are just burning through. Also the fact that other popular perks are being reworked to be so situational, so having a perk that gives value passively as you focus on your objective is nice.
I've stopped using it completely recently (I've gone completely off meta) and found that my games and chases aren't really any different without it. So it's saying something that I was using a perk that I probably didn't really need to be using. Or maybe it helped me learn tiles better? Who knows.
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This is a pretty good analogy. I hate it when survivors run on with this perk, you can certainly feel that, and just bee-line from pallet to pallet and it feels really boring, BUT that doesn't warrant a nerf.
It helps soloQ a lot to know which resources are still up, while serving be same function with SWFs, interesting enough.
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I do think WoO should go on cooldown after a vault, but not to nerf it really... but to help new survivors actually learn tiles.
WoO is a bit like a satnav in car; because it tells you where to go all the time, you never really learn the actual route.
If it went on CD after a vault (even just 20s), you would need to remember nearby vaults and pallets after your first, and that would really help actually learn the tiles.
A cooldown on it would make the perk more engaging to play with, and it definitely wouldn't lose its primary value...
OFC survivor mains wouldn't see it that way, and still get upset about it, because "cater to killers" yadda yadda *roll eyes*, but I don't use the perk cause I'm still learning tiles, and this perk slows my ability to learn considerably.... but it is a nice perk when you have learnt tiles, and a CD wouldn't hurt an experienced players use of it at all.
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I wouldn't say it's op but it's definitely good. I don't run it and I'm still able to chain loops pretty well and I still won't run it as I'd rather learn maps but that's just me.
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It's a good perk that makes good players more consistent with foreknowledge of available loops.
Why are we talking about this perk?
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WoO is perfectly fine, it's just a crutch for survivors to make better decisions in chase.
I'd rather deal with survivors making less mistakes, but still having default stats / capabilities rather than just getting carried by stacked haste, endurance or any other nonsense they might bring.
WoO is a perk slot wasted for compensating skill issue instead of buffing survivor stats, good thing.
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Experienced players should know where (roughly at worst) where all windows and vaults are. Its a brilliant perk for newer players but its a bit like stabilisers for experienced players imo. Doesn't need touching.
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Because a player with decent experience in a team on comms doesnt need windows at all. Noobs need it because they dont know map rng yet, experienced players may use it because they're in soloq or not on comms and need to know what pallets have been thrown. In a team on comms you can communicate this info.
EDIT: Forgot something crucial, windows will not help a noob loop much better, theres many variables in looping not just knowing where pallets/vaults are. This is why you dont see baby survivors looping a killer for multiple gens even with windows, while an experienced player can w/o it.
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Windows is strong, just not needs a nerf levels. Same as UW for roughly the same reasons.
They're just info perks.
Unless we get something like old OoO levels of info, which is basically perma wall hacks, they're probably not busted.
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Windows is one of the only survivor perks in the game that can help mitigate map RNG as a factor. It shouldn't be a surprise that there's value in knowing which tiles have spawned, and especially which resources have been used up, without having to scour the map after every chase.
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Windows makes the solo experience semi tolerable and is just generally a good perk. It's good, yes.
It is not overpowered. It doesn't need to be nerfed. It doesn't break the game seven ways to Sunday. It's simply a good perk, that's easy to use and provides helpful information. It's still up to the Survivor player to play well- if they predrop every pallet there's gonna be none left by 3 gens, they still need to loop and path properly and manage resources- it's not an auto win or anything like that.
It's just good and nice and it's found a spot within a meta because of it's ease of use and helpfulness in solo. Pickrate doesn't mean it needs a nerf, maybe we just need better alternatives.
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Didn't dbd work before the windows buff as well?
What changed?
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WoO is strong because it stops chance, there’s a chance that the loop you’re going to doesn’t have a pallet or window, WoO completely negates that since you can run for a pallet or window
but it’s by far not broken or needing a nerf whatsoever killer or survivor players who think it needs a nerf are not right in the head. Its good and useful at what it’s supposed to do and does nothing else it’s a balanced perk
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WoO is strong for a few different reasons. For one, it exposes a problem with the oversaturated map design in the game. Two, it helps solo Q players ascertain which tiles can be ran and which are unsafe, helping to breach the gap with SWF.
That being said, WoO having a massive range and being constant does create a problem where it becomes a crutch for many survivors, instead of a means to learn common tiles and maps. It essentially becomes easy looping: the perk, especially when combined with something like MFT. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the perk have a small cooldown after using a resource (window or pallet) so that it still communicates the same information but requires more involvement from the user.
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You aren't wrong but it generally just depends on the caliber of survivor and the killers they face on average. The better survivors can use it to easily link resources together and can use it to tell where resources are to link together at a glance. Newer players might like it because while they might not know how to use the resources properly or efficiently knowing where pallets are to drop in a panic is helpful. I think the main group that doesn't see it as useful is the mid tier survivors. They know how to loop alright but don't see the big picture of connected loops they mostly just see one loop at a time so rank the perk lower. That and depending on what killer you are against its perfect or its useless. The chainsaw brothers hate windows and nurse just doesn't care so depending on the player and what they feel like they face a lot (losses and times where the perk is useless always outweight when the perk feels useful even if its a 1:1 useful : useless just because thats how brains work) and you have plenty of reasons why it can have so many different opinions
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killer got basekit buffs as part of that same update
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It is definitely a strong perk but not op it's like a computer you can see what it's trying to tell you dosent allways mean you know what to do with that info
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Whether the perk is strong or not, people won't use it if it is not useful.
I'd say it is close to OG Spine Chill level.
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I actually think this is one of the most accurate reasons I have seen so far as to why its so popular (you can see by night light numbers as well since the perk rework etc, its use goes way up). As well if you look at how there are less "auto include" perks now it actually means you have room for a perk like windows.
That said, its a difficult perk to know whether or not its actually working. For instance, the last match where you went down, perhaps there was a pallet you missed that if you had this perk you would have made it to? You cannot actually know that for sure. I will say I do think it is also great for new and pro survivors in that even the best survivor in the world cannot know if a pallet is used or where a pallet spawned in quite a few maps due to simple pure map RNG and this perk saves you there.
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