Emblem and ranking reforms: a winning choice for everyone
What are the main causes of toxicity in this game? The most harmful strategies for the opponent, which heavily affect their ability to pursue their goals, sometimes even preventing them from playing, in the sense of interacting, for a sufficient time, with the objects and characters of the game, namely:
1) camping, tunneling, slugging, from the side of the killer;
2) gen rushing, eternal looping, bodyblocking / flashlighting, from the side of the survivors.
When these practices are massively used, the player who is the victim loses hope of obtaining, if not a satisfactory result, at least ten minutes of pleasant adventure, and then decides:
1) to commit suicide, or deliberately play below their talents to hasten the end of the game, sometimes coming to the disconnection, if they are survivors;
2) to ignore the survivors so as not to be further humiliated or to disconnect, if they are killers.
The keystone of this game, the very essence of the Entity, is precisely HOPE, that fire that pushes you to give your best, to believe in it to the very end. Toxicity destroys hope, fun, and the quality of games. For these reasons, I find that the reform of the emblem and ranking system is exceptional: without punishing anybody, it forces everyone to adopt optimal, efficient, varied and pleasant playstyles. In fact, toxic strategies lead to games either excessively short or excessively monotonous: in both cases, the player wins the trial, but loses pips.
If the killer camps the hooks, they suffer a penalty, make a few chases, use their power little and, due to the gen rush, lose points in the Gatekeeper. If they tunnel the survivors as soon as they are rescued, the others lose hope and commit suicide: they can total 4k, but not 10 hooks; the pursuits will be short, and the use of power scarce. If they down the whole team in a minute, they only earn points in the Gatekeeper. On the opposite side, the gen rush becomes ruinous: iridescent quality in the Lightbringer, but very poor Benevolent and Evader. And the looping expert will have to stop every now and then to repair a few gens, to heal or rescue his teammates, if he does not want the utmost in the Evader and a poor result in the other categories. So even the wearer of flashlights cannot waste all the time following the killer to blind them and save a mate: he will have to spend some time on goals and altruism.
Increasing the rank will therefore be extremely difficult, a very few players will be able to conquer the summit again, but the games will necessarily have to be longer and each player will have to dedicate themselves to everything, mastering and savoring every single game mechanic. Here is the result:
1) more fun;
2) more bloodpoints;
3) more thrilling, intense trials, fought from the beginning to the very end;
4) a more rigorous players' ranking, according to their overall talent;
5) as a consequence of 4), greater equity in the matchmaking.
In other words, you did BRILLIANTLY, great Developers, and I sincerely thank you for this beautiful, excellent, precious gift! :D
Comments
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I completely disagree. You make it sound like it's going to magically fix toxicity. I feel like you've completely misread what's in the changes to rank.
- It is FAR harder to gain rank as your rank gets higher.
- It is FAR easier to gain rank as your rank gets lower.
These two things combined are going to push a majority of players into a mid-rank area.
This seems to be an effort to make high ranks an actual achievement, probably to add a reward system to rank in future, HOWEVER, without one, this will simply take all of the current issues with deranking players and make it the norm across ALL players.
- It takes a phenomenal effort to gain and keep rank 1 now, on either side, it is similarly difficult to stay at low rank without being incredibly new to the game.
- This means queue times at either end of the spectrum will be absolutely huge. Following this, the matchmaking system tends to give up and pair you with anyone as long as it can give you a game.
- This encourages deranking to the mid ranks, and makes it much easier to do.
- The mid-ranks are going to be populated by a majority of players, not only due to deranking, but due to pipping/depipping players more easily for not playing perfectly, or using a strat that isn't rank-efficient (ie a rank 1 nurse player who slugs a lot will almost always depip now.)
- Queuing in the mid ranks will be a complete mixed bag, compared to now, it will be a complete mixed bag if you're against a week 1 killer who thinks camping is how you get kills, or a god tier nurse player mowing you down and tunnelling off the hook every time.
All in all, I don't believe this will have the slightest effect on toxicity, all I think it will do is bunch everyone together in the same matchmaking pool and remove the small amount of association between rank and skill bracket that exists now. Yes, very high and low ranks will be more accurate of skill, but the new system will make that redundant as there'll be no one there, as it's far better and easier to get into mid ranks and stay there.
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Gen rush is not toxic. I hate toolboxes myself but it is not toxic to do gens.
Looping not toxic also.
Camping is the only rational choice when gens are done. Slugging is neccessary sometimes because of the hatch.
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What an odd observation. This change doesn't fix deranking, it makes it easier. Derankers who want to stay in low ranks (either because they're "content creators" or sociopaths or both) so they can make a show of humiliating players with lesser skills will now find it substantially easier to do so. They can still loop, and stun, and blind, and probably even escape... and yet only safety pip. The only thing this does is make it easier to "hover" at a given rank.
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I mostly agree with this. Some killers (and in particular on some maps) are definitely too easy to loop and have limited counterplay or mindgaming potential. That killer player is not going to enjoy the game, and will perceive it as toxic behavior, but it probably is not.
Rushing isn't toxic, per se. But Think about this: from the killer perspective, the game is 100% about rapid decisions about time management. Do I keep chasing this survivor through the loop? I'll catch him *eventually*, but they'll get 4 gens done in the meantime. Do I abandon the one survivor I've found (who by the way is toting a flashlight around and will probably get pissed that I didn't keep chasing him and is now going to become a flashlight savior for the rest of the game) and *hope* I can stomp some generators and find someone less versed in holding running close to things?
The survivors doing almost anything that "steals" time from the killer is going to be perceived as toxic. Unless I'm one of three killers (for the most part), I have to accept that 1-2 or generators are likely to get done by the time I get my first survivor hooked. If three are done by that point, I'm way behind. If 4 are done and I haven't killed anyone yet, I'm basically guaranteed to lose unless I used a (oh my god so terrible!) NOED build OR if the survivors decide they need the altruism points and come in for risky saves. Again, some killers can turn this around even at the "gates open" point, but for the most part, the killer's game is "make the right decision constantly about how you'll be spending every second of the game", and the survivor's game is "make few mistakes and I automatically win."
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@anarchy753 @Eveline @LowSodium The game is designed according to reasonable objectives: if a player wants to run to the killer to commit suicide, to fail the skillchecks and lose ranks on purpose, no miraculous reform can prevent it. It is hoped that the idiots are a small minority. We have not yet had the opportunity to thoroughly test the new matchmaking system: in my opinion, it will avoid the problems you fear, given the many weeks the Devs spent to perfect it.
Moreover, it's not a question of labels: if those behaviors are toxic or not, absolutely or only for some players, it does not matter. What really matters is that such behaviors will be less convenient for those who want to earn pips, and I think this will help the game health. :)
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I'm open to see how these changes go through to be honest. I don't think it will pan out the way people want but who knows till we see it live.
But... if you think it will be less toxic... haha.. I'd be surprised by that one. Wait till you get someone in a survivor group that makes a mistake and causes their team to all depip. Especially if they were a solo player.
Also wait till red rank survivor resort to farming their teammates so they can get the emblem points. Since there really will be only enough emblem points for 1 survivor to white pip, and that will contingent on the killer performing well.
Everything could pan out well though.. good mixture of matches... mostly all billies and nurses though, since any other killer will give up too much in the beginning. Every survivor for themselves, can't really play as a team per say, since them being alive means less emblem points for you.
That last comment though about hoping for less idiots... hehe... Yeah they will all be piled up around rank 5 and 4.. then you will be paired up with them throughout the red ranks until you fight to rank 1.... and you'll still be paired up with them.
Also if they put in rewards with a tough ranking system, it will just lead to people "playing" in certain ways so everyone can get the reward. People have a tendency to "game" the system when it is stacked up against them.
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This post seriously needs a TL, DR... You're talking too fancy my man! :)
Also, you're wrong. People playing "toxic", whatever that means, don't give a flying toss about rank. They'll continue doing what they do, meaning they'll keep deranking, all the way down until they'll become DBD's welcome team for newbies. Not a good idea.
Devs tend to forget what the most important thing for killers is. It's killing. Nevermind a lot of BP and pipping up, if I have 0 or 1 kill, I failed. Similarly, I don't care much if I did not pip or got a tiny amount of BP if they're all dead. Because them all being dead makes me happy.
A rank badge matters little now. With the proposed changes in the PTB, it's gonna mean even less.
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I have tried to make this point many times in the past, but most people cba reading or don't agree. I believe the source of toxicity is unbalanced matches, hence why the ranking systems needed changing. Though i think the devs did a decent job, i still think they just threw some changes together, and didn't really think through what they are doing, so in my opinion the changes are far from perfect, though they're on the right lines
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@TheBean To farm teammates? Do you mean "to unsafely unhook them"? Unsafe unhooks are punished with less bloodpoints and emblem points. Then, if some people don't care about BP and pips, all reforms are irrelevant for them.
@George_Soros Oh, yes, many killers desire 4k, unless they are merciful with the last survivor. It's the killer's target, it's good they fight to get this result, but 4k after 12 minutes of trial and 10 hooks are far better than 4k in 5 minutes because of potatoes or tunneling: more fun, more points, more pips. Reasonable players in good faith should change their playstyle after this change. I'm Italian and ignore English slang: what does "TL; DR" stand for...? XD
@No_Cluie_Louis The 2.6.0 patch is going to be released: we'll see very soon if that reform helps the game health or not...
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Gonna write a novel.. but I will keep it simple. You can farm people still, get the emblem and blood points. I just need to take in BT to help me with it. The killer has their requirements aswell inorder not to lose emblem points, so that makes it even easier, since they will have to follow those rules to rank up.
Since you pipping is more dependent on the team as a whole, it will be easier for me as a survivor to depip you, as a survivor.
I'm up to see how things go though.. why not see that system in action in the live system. Never hurts to give it a shot. Except they need to make sure it works correctly on this first go.. seems pretty crappy to put in these changes and have it bugged.
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I think they will do it after the reset cause it will allow players to place themselves throughout the ranking first. It will lessen the blow on match making if there is an issue of one side not ranking up quick enough.
The last time when they first put in the emblems, just before the reset, it took awhile for survivors to get used to it and killers got ahead in the ranking too fast.
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@TheBean Don't you find it unfair to change the rules during the race? Why should those who play the first week of the month be privileged over those who play the second, still benefiting from the old system, much more favorable to the increase in rank? Furthermore, it is the killers who have to get used to the new emblems.
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@Entità TL,DR means "too long didn't read", it's a shorthand for saying you're talking too much and saying little. No offense meant, honest, it's just being short and succinct often works better than going into details too much.
Anyway, I actually agree pipping should be made more difficult than it is now, but this system is waaaaay too much. The biggest problem with it has been pointed out by a number of forum dwellers: it doesn't count at all for survivors DC-ing or suiciding, thus it punishes both groups for factors completely beyond their control.
As for your point about a long game with a lot of chases, lot of hooks, and a 4K in the end, compared with a very fast 4K: clearly the killer did better in the second case. It's about effectively rating performance of players so they can be always matched against others of similar skill level. If a killer massacres the whole bunch of them in three minutes, he belongs to a higher rank, simple as that. Rank shouldn't be viewed as a reward.
TL,DR: current PTB ranking change is too radical, and doesn't count for some important factors. One should rank up if effective, not if he plays nice, there's the BP reward for that.
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Eh.. don't matter to me personally. It would be an issue if the Devs announced rank rewards with the update. But since there is no rewards, it shouldn't be an issue. It will be less impact on the community to allow them to rank up on the old system to pepper out the match making when they do the update. Then announce any rank rewards on the next update, if they are going to do so.
The killers don't have to get used to the new emblems. The emblems are a reflection of how the Devs want you to play. When the emblems first came out, majority of the killers already play that way, so the impact on them wasn't as harsh as survivors. Plus the 1 to 4 ratio.. so the emblems as a whole won't impact them, as much, since they already play the style the devs want.
Only the killers who can't run the playstyle... Find one survivor, hook them, find another, then hook them, find another, then hook them, and keep going until all hooked 3 times to death will have an issue.
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Without disagreement. People will people. I think people tend to do this more, however, when they either decide to play the game as their "job" (streamers) or they no longer get the basic "charge" from playing the game as "intended", and move more toward playing to satisfy some other psychological tic, like cruelty. Downranking serves both of those goals.
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A point from your prior post
Yes, a 4k that takes 14 minutes is much more fun than a 4k that takes 4.5 minutes. I absolutely agree. But from the killer side, a zero-k that takes 4.5 minutes because of genrush is just as unfun as your 4k that takes 4.5 minutes. And that is common as dirt these days.
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@LowSodium I have seen many gen stops since the Plague was released, with Corrupted Intervention + Ruin. The killer wants 4 kills: to get them after 10 minutes it's better than within 3 minutes... more fun, more points, better emblems for all.
@Peanits Could you kindly move this thread to the Balance feedback section? :)
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i am at the point where i actually want the victory cube back...
like, ive just recently had like the perfect trapper round (max deviousness points does mean something), 4k, tons of points and a save pip.
i didnt tunnel, i didnt camp, i didnt play unfair at all. but since three died on their 2nd hook (last two got trapped both and i could kill them easily that way and one suicided after being unhooked and running into another trap) and thanks to the traps the chaser emblem usually aint working (cuz traps dont count - for whatever reason), plus them finishing 3 gens (2 when i made my setup and 1 while i was slaugthering), lead to the savepip, which seemed just ridiculous to me.
its like the game forces me to play the top killers or stay at the current rank / depip...
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