after being slugged for 90 seconds you should be able to pick yourself up for free.

you mean you want to make that perk base kit?

The fact that anyone describes slugging as a 4min wait to bleedout reflects the survivors performance as a group and the individual's failure at multiple aspects of play before the down even happens.

Do you never get left to bleedout for 4 min while the killer does a map search for another survivor? Or just left to bleed out just because?

It's not like this is an everyday occurrence, but this does happen. Perks don't address it, they just lengthen the time. I'd vote for the quicker death/self kill option myself, because it's common enough that it should be talked about.

Skull Merchant already has this ability, lol. And to a lesser extent, Trapper, too.

Nah. No form of self-pickup should be basekit under any circumstances. When there are only 2 survivors left and one is slugged, then the slugged survivor should be able to give up and bleed out early after 30 seconds so the game can come to a conclusion, and Knockout should be reworked as it’s too oppressive against solo queue. But slugging as a whole is not a problem.

They could just auto put you on a hook.

Skip the whole bend down, get flashlighted, look around, carry the survivor, I hate that stuff. I do enjoy 4 minutes of watching a bleed out, but to make you happy, I'll take auto hook on the nearest scourge hook.

I'm glad we could compromise.

Nobody is talking about making Boil Over basekit.

Just bring 1 or two unbreakables in your team or FTP + buckle up and slugging strategies suddenly become much less effective.

All survivors left in the game are either in the dying state or on the hook: survivors in the dying state can pick themselves up

When 2 survivors are left in the match: they can always pick themselves up

Done

How is that a reward?

Nobody is on gens

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO

Why would I care about gens when they just handed me a 4k?

This literally could deny the killer of the 4K. What if you k/o’d yourself after being slugged and the final survivor found hatch? Like the killer doesn’t get their 4K.

I'd rather be able to repair gens while on the ground after recovering. It would give the survivor something to do, give them some extra BPs, and add pressure for the killer to pick up without being unfair. Even repairing at a reduced rate would be better than nothing and more fair than being able to pick themself up for free.

The funny thing with the 45s that people kept claiming to be bad was actually the Mori system tied to it. Even in a classical slug scenario of an Oni snowballing with 3 downs, that yielded 28s of the first person downed, with 17s to pickup, then everyone else could still be hooked sequentially as long as you carried them to hooks en route to the next person.

(Here is a more detailed breakdown of the concept and picture above, feel free to skip if you got the gist of it.) In this basic Oni slugging from 3 power hits across the map, Oni still has time to hook each of them even when they were downed in a triangle of opposite corners (with 45s basekit pickups). From the first down in the top left, and the final down in the bottom center, the Oni merely needs to remember the order of downed Survivors, and they can't pick themselves up if they moved. After Oni downs the Yellow Surv 3, they go back to hook Red Surv 1, and try to find the hook en route to Green Surv 2. After that, then have a shortened timer of (an average) 11s to pick up Surv 2, and can repeat the same rough process en route to Surv 3. At that point the Oni could take the closest hook available (H3A) or attempt a more central hook to be closer to the action (H3B).

Since they tied the finished Mori to that same mechanic, Killers were instead purposely bleeding out to speed run attempts for a 4 down win. Personally I think the finisher Mori should be tied to (only) 1 Survivor alive and on the ground, and then 3 button options pop up over the Surv (like the current Mori/pickup button prompts), Quick Mercy (skip Mori, counts as hatch escape), Mercy (play Mori, counts as hatch escape and Kill by hands), and Murder (play Mori, counts as Kill by hands). That way people don't have to look for hatch, they can just end the match there and then. At the same time it doesn't prevent the Killer from having the option to manually find hatch themselves if they liked the old system.

Just add a mechanic giving the option where, after being slugged for 90sec, pressing ‘X’ puts yourself directly on the hook.

After waiting for 90s at the exit gates, survivors should be put into the dying state and unable to leave for 30s. They take forever to leave, otherwise.

Exactly, only a fool would leave a Survivor on the ground for an extended time if they didn't have a plan. The Killer can easily just hook the Survivor (and should, so that they don't lose on the pressure gained), and win much easier that way. The Killer deciding not to play the game in an engaging way should be punished, not rewarded. Reward hooks, punish slugs. There is no reason for the original 45s PTB basekit pickups, or even the more tame suggestion of 90s basekit pickups, to not be in the game.

I would say Survivor's skill is having less incompetent allies than the enemy, which isn't skill in your control (outside of SWF and you pick who you play with). A competent Killer ignores the competent Survivor, and wins by default (as long as there is 1 Survivor less competent than the Killer). A 3v1 might as well be a free (delayed) win for Killer, as if you have 1 on hook, 1 in chase, the final 1 has to rescue, so gens will never get progressed, and hook states will accrue.

Just as a Survivor pre-dropping every pallet, or suiciding on hook ruins the experience for other players, bleeding out instead of hooking also ruins the experience for players. We shouldn't encourage bad designs. Lessening the buildup on DCs penalties could solve the suicide on hook problem, but more complex measures might be needed for intentional predrops of all pallets. Similarly a simple fix to bleeding out is a basekit pickup, at a longer than normal timer to reach the 95%.

Removing bleedouts doesn't force the Killer to hook so much as it forces the Killer to hook in a timely manner. The same player could be in an Exponential boon zone, or picked up by another player, or have Soul Guard or Unbreakable, and a basekit pickup mechanic would remove the ambiguity and have a simple understandable timeframe. Encouraging Bleedouts as a valid alternative primary 'win' would encourage the death of the game. People don't have fun when they don't get to play. Bleeding out forces people to not play. Most Survivors I pickup in a bleedout match are AFK and don't even move for 15-30s as they were clearly resigned to their fate and were alt-tabbed watching a Youtube video or something. At the very least Survivors could complete actions like gens/totems/exit gates if they were to include a bleedout intentional win, otherwise people would hard quit Survivor, because being AFK on Youtube is the same gameplay in or out of a match.

It most certainly isn't punishing Killers making good plays, it is punishing Killers for making plays that would kill the game. We don't allow cheating for the same reason, because people would quit in mass. The game's very nature of asymmetrical sides requires slowdown or lack of agency from the greater numerical side, but pushing that lack of agency too far makes no one play. Similarly the lesser number side must be hard designed to 'win', hence 4.6 v 4.0, hence Bloodlust, hence finite pallet resources, hence entity blockers on windows. No one is going to queue into a 15 minute match with 14 of those minutes better spent AFK outside of the game, especially if they made the correct play in every circumstance, and the games decision of 'you go down now because this is a 1v4' comes into effect. Naw, I'm going to either swap games, or only play Killer, but then there will be no one to play Survivor unless they are cheating, so you can't even play Killer.

few talking points. First, the killer does not know who weak links are in a team at the start of the game. The killer has to chase survivors and find survivor which is timing consuming task in itself to find weak-links. Survivor does not have any build-up to their generator objective. the objective is exactly same at the start the game as it is at the end of the game. secondly, strong teams don't have weak-links. the killer has to create weak-points for survivor to capitalize off mistakes. It is not that easy to create 3vs1's when the team is good. lastly, the idea that 3vs1 is auto-lose for survivor is not true. if there 1 gen or 2 gens remaining and they're all split, there is still good chance for survivor to win. You have successful to be looping the killer. there is no reason why survivor team cannot finish 3 gens before someone dies. gen speed in the game is very oppressive for killer when 4 people are alive. My opinion is that the matches for survivor have "delayed" wins when you use up all the effective pallets in the game corresponding to the killer. as long pallet remaining in trial, you can still complete generators in 3vs1. It is just many survivor are used to losing chases but still finish all 5 gens. 4vs1 is like that for survivor.

My first question is what about the mechanic is bad design to you?

I am not saying that it should be primary win condition. I am saying it should be secondary win condition that is slower but still possible to achieve. right now, it is too slow to achieve and almost impractical which hurts killer with slugging designs. I agree that being on the floor is not fun. that is why I said that increasing recovery time for survivor is not a good idea because the survivor becomes too disengaged from the game because they're on the floor for too long. DBD should remain as fast-paced game and increasing bleed out recovery by a large amount would potentially slow the game down. The only way positive i can see from doing that is that you do not need to give killers any base gen-regression perks but this comes at expense of survivor's fun factor. The reason why I say this is because Peanits wrote long ago in 6.1 june update : " Slowdown perks should be an option, but not the only option to stay competitive. Fast-forward to today after 1 year and 3 months, killer still use most of the same perks that were stated to be used in that post Pain res, Pop goes weasel and Corrupt Intervention. the only perk that you do not see is hex:ruin which has been replaced by Surge. These are still most common perks used by killers. This means killer are still mostly dependent on game-delay perks. The only variation that killer have is what type of game-delay perks synergy with said killers. Slugging is a possible form of making killer not require any of those game-delay perks. I am just not sure whether slugging is correct type of game-delay for survivors to play against if recovery timers were increased by a lot.