STBFL isn't a good perk on Demogorgon or Ailen. Change my mind.
Save The Best For Last is completely useless on Demo, Ailen, Nemesis or any other killer that can damage survivors via their M2 attack(their power). It also hinders your agility of getting better at their powers. You should never be using your basic attack to the point you get 8 tokens of Save The Best For Last when you have an M2 attack that damages. That perk slot should be used for something stronger like an information or slowdown perk. Save The Best For Last should only be used on killers with little to no chase potential (With the exception of Deathslinger as he's a 4.4 killer)
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used to use it on nemmy and trying to whip the obsession in the most awkward areas and missing millions of times was so frustrating lmao. and it definitely disincentivizes using the killer's power, basically making you an m1 killer.
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This is a HOT take. Lol
STBFL is the BEST on those killers. 8 stacks of STBFL + an antiloop m2 turns you into a monster in chase. M1 for when power can’t be used well, m2 to shut down loops where you can’t get the m1. Not to mention you can absolutely capitalize on STBFL because you can avoid losing stacks.
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I haven't tested it on alien but i disagree that its bad on demogorgon.
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sure, cope, ill just proceed to 2 tap people on demo and snowball fast
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I wouldn't say the perk is bad on them, but it is overrated. Especially Demo who is better off using Black Heart and just going for Shred as much as possible.
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Maybe at low mmr when the difference between winning and losing a match doesn't come down to sometimes seconds of attack recovery
Edit: ESPECIALLY during the MFT meta
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I'm not sure if you understand the reason why it's good. You can use the M2 to avoid losing stacks. There are also plenty of times when your M1 attack is a better option, especially for Xeno.
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We are reaching near-lethal levels of copium intake from this post!
Being able to stop STBFL from losing stacks is incredibly powerful. It is sometimes easier to just hit a survivor with a basic attack instead of your power, or they'll be caught in a dead-zone and don't need to be hit by your power.
Cutting down your attack cooldown time by 40% permanently decreases the amount of distance survivors can make between hits, allows you to combo hits into your power, makes body-blocking less effective, and tears through endurance with ease!
You don't have to use STBFL to win with killers that already have good chase powers. But it is undeniably useful on them regardless.
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Using it on those killers will hold you back skill wise
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You can use any perk on any killer. Nobody should dictate how anyone plays.
I like Stbfl on Demo. Nothing better than M1 into M2 for a 3 second chase. Makes me feel like I'm nurse.
It's not optimal. But it's fun.
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I used it on Xeno.
But not for chase.
I use it to have a very short cooldown when breaking turrets.
Bombrush a turret with m1 and you barely lose any distance in chase. Very useful.
Not optimal but useful.
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Not a hot take at all lol. It's called 'logic and game knowledge' imo. Preach it!
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People can use what people want to use.
Do I say : "don't use windows because you actually stop learning maps!"?
No, because people can use what people want to use.
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What a random thing to say that has nothing to do with anything!
I agree with you though. :)
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If STBFL made these Killers weaker, people would stop running the perk over time.
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Honestly I agree. The value gained from STBFL is less than the value gained from another perk in place of it. It also trains you to NOT use power with very strong power Killers.
I think STBFL is still good on Killers that don't have an M2 hit, even if the Obsession is bugging you. Either the Obs dies early and gives you a free win, or they lose too much time coordinating heals for the minimal benefit, especially while their team still burns pallets just as fast as normal. IMO Clown is the best user (and one of the few Rapid Brutality users as well), and any other Rapid Brutality/STBFL users like Trapper are also fine with using it.
Ghosty is a perfect example of a horrible STBFL user. You should only get exposed hits, so if you are building STBFL, you are failing at exposed hits. The time you save is from approaching at odd angles or mid 'chase' 99'ing, so that you can on demand 1 hit them when it matters.
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Does that actually work? From what it seems when I play Xeno breaking turrets seems to count as a 'missed' attack as if you were to hit a wall, kind of like Dredge breaking locks. So I don't think STBFL would affect that.
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STBFL is the BIGGEST CRUTCH on M2 based killers. Ppl who rely on it never really get used to the Power and utilizing it to the maximum. Shred 2 taps are faster then M1 Demo bc of STBFL.
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Random?
This post is about people that use Stbfl on killers with a chase ability.
Case and point: Demo and Xeno
My point to that discussion is, that anybody can use these perks. Nobody should be shamed for their choice of perks.
And believe me, I've seen a lot of shaming while playing both of them with Stbfl.
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It works!!!
At least during the Halloween event it still worked. Haven't played Xeno since then.
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Ok.
I have 8 stacks of Stbfl. I hit a non obsession. They don't even exit my shred radius. The second part of the chase is therefore less than a few seconds.
If this is not strong, I don't know what to tell you.
Of course you couldake the argument, that other perks like deadlock would give more value, due to the fact, that Stbfl has to be build up. But some people (myself included) enjoy the ultra lethal demo you get with rat liver + 8 stacks Stbfl.
It's fun to play.
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Don't forget the pig.
It has synergy with her style of gameplay AND she can save the stacks.
One of the best, if not the best user of Stbfl.
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It is not, and neither is on nemesis
Players who use it just m1 and can't effectively use their power other than to zone. Like, just learn the killer otherwise you're just playing trapperless Evan.
It gives easy games against people who can't play against an m1 killer, a free escape for everyone else
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Im still not sure what this reply means? ofc people can use what they want? DO people actually listen if someone says 'Dont use that perk'? Actually, maybe lol.
My complaint to you was it just didn't have a spot in the conversation. Seemed random. Maybe I just don't understand the perspective. Anyway!
Still agree with you!
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Both killers use it well. Although, I would say there are better perks on Xenomorph. On Demogorgon it is a really good perk. M1 into M2 with 8 stacks almost resembles an insta down, so that is definitely good. There are also a number of loops where his shred isn't all that amazing, so you will be forced to play a fair share of M1 killer anyway.
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This reminds me of a YT video that popped into my suggestions a few days ago. Some survivor toying with a clearly new Demo player and reaming them over using stbfl. Was the cringiest dbd video I've seen in awhile.
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coup is a perk to play dropped pallets. xeno, nemesis and demo are suppose be killer where their special attack allows them to play pallets. Demo and Nemesis are not good at playing pallets. Shred is like Coup the grace but has 0.65-1 second cast time. Lunge attacking has no cast time. Nemesis is not good at playing pallets because the survivor can crouch his tentacle strike due to cast time. In addition, nemesis also has to hit survivor 3 times to down them in first two chases. What in common with Demo and Nemesis is both of them have pallet breaking base-kit. The problem is that their pallet breaking is too slow to be meaningful in many instances especially if survivor is pre-dropping pallets at the correct time.
Xeno is excels at getting hits at dropped pallets. Uniquely, his tail strike does not break pallets like Nemesis and Demo. Because hitting survivors at dropped pallets is more time efficient then breaking them, xeno tends to be best out of the 3 killers. He doesn't need coup because his tail strike is better Coup. Nemesis and Demo can use Coup but your rejecting their ability by using Coup which is counter-productive to playing the killer. Your better off playing some other killer than using Coup.
People will call this bait but, no, you're 100% right. STBFL is the biggest trap Perk in the game.
People will use it on Demo and then their ability to use Shred as an anti-loop tool will basically dissappear and will play a primarily M2 Killer as an M1 Killer just so they can... keep the STBFL Tokens when Black Heart is better in almost all situations
Just because you equip a perk does not mean you should hyper prioritize stacks when it is not possible. You should always prioritize your m2 and then calculate whether it is possible to get m1 to increase stack count.
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Xeno does not have better antiloop than nemesis. Nemesis has some of the best antiloop in the game when you get it to tier 3, which does absolutely not take long if you consistently land whips.
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Easier to dodge? That’s false. Nemmy has a dragging, lingering hitbox. Any half decent nemesis will guarantee a hit every single time. All you have to do it strafe, and you’ll get the hit.
What makes nemmy shine is he is a win / win at pallets. Every single other ranged killer either wins or loses at pallets (besides demo, kinda). If you miss your xeno tail at a pallet, you don’t get an injure/down, you lose tons of distance, AND you still have to break the pallet. Nemesis will EITHER get a down/injure, or break the pallet, and lose close to no distance.
The build up is way overestimated. I can consistently hit tier 2-3 before first gen pops. It’s really not that long. Xeno can easily be rendered into an m1 killer using turrets. A huge downside that can’t be ignored or avoided.
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You make fair points. I suppose it comes down to preference at that point. I’ve put a good amount of hours into nemesis, thus I’m very confident with his whip.
I’m fairly good with xeno as well, considering they play the same for the most part. Nemesis just feels like an absolute unit at tier 3, especially later in the game when everybody is infected and there’s not many/no vaccines left.
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that is my point. Demo and Nemesis are not good at playing pallets but Coup is a perk to try to play dropped and undropped pallets. your better off breaking the pallet even though demo and nemesis have poor pallet breaks that accomplish nothing when survivor is good at linking pallets.
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Not sure why anybody would think nemesis is not good at pallets. He’s fantastic at pallets.
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I agree. His zombies make up for lack of mobility WHEN and IF they don’t get stuck in the corner of the map. xD
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The only reason I didn't mention the Pig is because you can only preserve stacks when the Survivors *let you* preserve stacks.
She fits under the M1 paradigm I mentioned before, but not under the Rapid Brutality overlap one, as she needs Bloodlust at many loops, especially against pre-dropping madlads.
The best case scenario for a Pig, is a Survivor panic from M1 on an uncrouch, they run into the wall, and STBFL gives you the follow-up hit before they can reorient themselves towards a pallet/window. That is more common than people think, so she is one of the Killers who actually gets more value from STBFL than another perk.
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You undervalue the ambush a bit.
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STBFL is a great perk, cutting survivors distance gain by like 50% with enough tokens. That by itself is amazing and I dont see how it cant be?
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Someone lost against a Demo with STBFL.
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15% does not equate the same effect as 40%. 40% m1 CD can let you land an m2 before they can even run outside the range of it.
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he's completely right stbfl is just a trap for new players and they never learn how to use the power and these types of killers are made to use their m2 over m1
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I use save across all sorts of killers. With pinhead I can hit you then chain you faster. With nemo I can hit than whip faster. I'd imagine it's the same thing with demo and xeno? Definitely a good perk for slinger if you want to reload faster after hitting someone.
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You have yo gear a blindfold, noise removing headphones, and be sensory deprived in order to manage to get hit by pig ambush. Prob the easiest to dodge special attack.
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I dont understand why you and many others even care this much about what perks ppl run on a killer. People are allowed to run whatever perk they like on any killer they play. If someone wants to run SBFL on demo they are allowed to. I know I used to run it on demo since it was a comfy perk to me on him. Nowadays I do not play demo anymore since I have Xeno. I find Xeno power a lot more fun to use than demo's power. Demo is honestly one of the most boring killers for me bc all his power is a lunge that can dam ppl and break pallets. Either way, you may be right that it doesnt help ppl but who cares? I just dont get why ppl care so much what others do with their builds.
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This is a wildly overstated case.
STBFL is a little overrated on Demogorgon, but it's definitely still strong. Combine it with the Black Heart and Barbs Glasses addons, and you've got a very aggressive Demo that doesn't let up in chase. Perfectly useful, and quite strong.
I'll say it is a lot less useful on Nemesis and Xenomorph because, unlike Demo, their M2 actually hits in places that Shred doesn't due to them hitting over obstacles, but it's still... fine? It's fine. Nemesis probably wants to use it least so he can build up his Mutation, two conflicting build-up mechanics at once is probably inefficient, but it's not as though you can't get value from it all the same.
I don't know why some people think equipping STBFL means you're necessarily ignoring your M2. You have to use both in most games for most killers (at least the ones discussed here), so it's clearly just a net gain for whenever you do have to use your M1.
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Not inherently, no. Like I said, there are scenarios where you can't use Shred, and STBFL is inherently just a net gain for all of those M1s even if you don't get all 8 stacks until close to the end of the game.
Better than some other perks in that slot? Eh. Good? Sure.
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when i play demo and survivor is good and loops m1 well but gives me opening shred, my average stbfl stack is 3-4. Sometimes, I could be like 3-4 hooks in with 3-4 stacks. that does not mean that stbfl is a bad perk on those killers. It just means that survivor is countering your opportunities to m1. The reason why black heart is bad add-on for demo is because it does not reduce thresholds enough where survivor does not make it to another loop. It is 3 stack of stbfl. If you think stbfl is bad on demo because your getting 3 stacks, why do you think getting 3 stacks of stbfl on your power is suddenly good? It is not good.
the reason stbfl is good is because there possible threshold of 8 stacks where stbfl really saves a lot chase time on killer end. M2 killers with reliable power will never go down in stacks and will only go up. The advantage of these killers is they're able to hit & run with the perk. Your allowed to detach chases with the perk. With other m1 killers, you are NOT allowed to detach chases when you use this perk. this is because you have 1/4 chances to find obsession. If you don't have power to mitigate the drawback then the perk's drawbacks makes you tunnel vision which is why some killer player dislike STBFL as a perk. they don't like loss of freedom for who they chase. you can try mitigate drawback by using tracking perk to ensure you find non-obsessions but if obsession bodyblock you than perk quickly becomes irrelevant. @jesterkind point is that you will eventually make the perk relevant over-time even if it does not produce game-winning effect every single game. that is why he says that it is possible that another perk could be better slotted from a player subjective point of view.
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I have almost never used STBFL on any killer until Alien came out; but it's just so ridiculously good with rapid brutality. Once you have 5-6+ stacks you can almost instadown people if they make a mistake around you because you recover so fast from the M1 you can immediately follow it up with an M2 even if they vault a window or drop a pallet. Demo I don't use it on but Alien's ability to hit someone with an M1 and then the M2 even if they vault a pallet or window in front of you is just god tier and destroys any survivor who doesn't expect it
Bonus points if you have superior anatomy and self destruct bolt on top of it. Then after your M1 even if they can make it to vault a window you lose almost no distance and can get back into tail range to down them within the rapid brutality speed boost which leads to some sub 10 second downs after a survivor makes a mistake and gets M1'd
Then it's also good for proxy camping, endgame trades (you will always secure a kill), basement camping, tunneling, etc etc on top of all that
I don't know why you would want to use it on an M1 killer where you lose half your perk if you run into the obsession
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Many people who say not to use STB on those killers are like "git gud like me".
Looking for proper timing to use M2 is important but it's players favor to use STB or not eventually.
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I live how people argue this but when you enter a comp or insane demogorgon guide (done by a hardcore demo main) one of the first things they say is how you should not use STBFL.
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My main build for Demogorgon features Save and I think it's all right. Like everyone has said, for killers that have the ability to deal health-state damage without triggering token losses, Save is best used on those killers! [I don't have Xenomorph or Nemesis.]
I also like Save on Deathslinger. Nothing is more gratifying than M1ing and immediately following up with a landed shot for a reeled down before survivors can run away.
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M1 perks on M2 killers is just a way to say "I'm not good nor confident at the game and I know it but won't admit it".
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