Do you feel like the devs are corralling killers into playing the way survivors deem "fair?"

Raccoon
Raccoon Member Posts: 7,713
edited February 2019 in General Discussions
It's really starting to seem that way, at least to me ;(
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Comments

  • HeroLives
    HeroLives Member Posts: 1,985
    Not at all tbh Bc people are still going to play how they want to play and the new ds has sooo many counters or reprecussions to running it only mad men or a squad of superheroes would do it. Or the mentally ill Bc they think it’s going to be a security blanket , when it’s not. Rip below purple ranks. I hope your little survivor souls catch on to the cycle of toxicity it will create within your realm.

    Im not worried about it (personally)tbh Bc I’m not one to run obsession perks anyways.  Rip my buddies though, and rip any killer who gets hit with the squad and isnt prepared. 
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @HeroLives said:
    Not at all tbh Bc people are still going to play how they want to play and the new ds has sooo many counters or reprecussions to running it only mad men or a squad of superheroes would do it. Or the mentally ill Bc they think it’s going to be a security blanket , when it’s not. Rip below purple ranks. I hope your little survivor souls catch on to the cycle of toxicity it will create within your realm.

    Im not worried about it (personally)tbh Bc I’m not one to run obsession perks anyways.  Rip my buddies though, and rip any killer who gets hit with the squad and isnt prepared. 

    The only counter the new DS has is enduring basically. (assuming it is released the way they proposed)

    Why rip your budies? There are no risks when it comes to becoming an obession or did I miss sth?

  • HeroLives
    HeroLives Member Posts: 1,985
    Master said:

    @HeroLives said:
    Not at all tbh Bc people are still going to play how they want to play and the new ds has sooo many counters or reprecussions to running it only mad men or a squad of superheroes would do it. Or the mentally ill Bc they think it’s going to be a security blanket , when it’s not. Rip below purple ranks. I hope your little survivor souls catch on to the cycle of toxicity it will create within your realm.

    Im not worried about it (personally)tbh Bc I’m not one to run obsession perks anyways.  Rip my buddies though, and rip any killer who gets hit with the squad and isnt prepared. 

    The only counter the new DS has is enduring basically. (assuming it is released the way they proposed)

    Why rip your budies? There are no risks when it comes to becoming an obession or did I miss sth?

    I mean you can anticipate it, and then hit them all with rancor at the end if you play it right . You can also leave them slugged. Enduring. Also rip my buddies Bc I know what those other survivors are going to do (run it) and it’s going to backfire when they go altruistic and it snowballs into a mori fest. 
  • Warlock_2020
    Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,867

    I think it is more that they realize the survivor numbers are dropping and some form of balance is needed. Business first, sensitive forum whiners' feelings second, or third, or not ranked.

  • Tucking_Friggered
    Tucking_Friggered Member Posts: 636

    @AlphaJackson said:
    I think "fair" is a subjective term, I know what you mean; but I think they're aiming less for fair and more for "fun" being camped and tunneled usually isn't fun gameplay, so they want to have more people have "fun" and since killer to survivor ratio is 1:4 if you make the survivors happy then you make 4/5th's of the playerbase happy, in theory anyway. So to answer the question, yes, yes I do think they are aiming for making survivors have a better time.

    Losing isn't fun and players are not beacons of honesty. Anything that causes them to lose will be labeled with a pejorative something to do with being unfair.

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    I feel like the devs are trying to go for something that lies between fun and balance, not realizing that balanced games with good mechanics are fun, and that appealing to casuals is just going to piss everyone off and blow up in their faces.

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,927

    It's no secret that the devs don't particularly care for camping and tunneling as a strategy. They have steadily given reasons for killers to leave the hook with perks such as BBQ, PGTW, Devour Hope, and Make Your Choice. They have also given survivors tools to help with dangerous hook rescues such as Borrowed Time, Breakdown, Deliverance, Kindred, Decisive Strike, and We'll Make It. But that is a very soft handed approach. Obviously killers still actively camp and tunnel.

  • Bongbingbing
    Bongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423

    I don't think they're trying to sway killers into playing by those made up rules but I do think they're aware of those things, on both sides that the others deem unfun and are bringing in perks to help combat it, Which is a good thing.
    If the Devs were to ever go by those rules and enforce them the game would be over. Patrolling, tunneling and slugging to survivors it can feel scummy but to killers It's sometimes it's the only option and the smarter decision if you want to play efficiently just like gen rushing and looping.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,713

    How do people feel as of the PTB?

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,616

    @Raccoon Well i heard killing all Survivors fast doesn't pip you anymore, suggesting they want you to let them live longer.

    Take it how you want.

  • HatCreature
    HatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    The only thing I like about the new pip system was the hooks, it gave you some albeit small leeway on the hooks for Iridescent, 10 instead of a full 12. But they didn't add in anything for DCs, the best way to use that pip system is to award full hooks and points from DCs because that's not the Killer's fault.

  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    Well if you kill all 4 really quick you don't pip, gen rush you don't pip and against the new killer I safety pippd with the following.

    Silver 1 bar from Gold.

    Iridescent

    Bronze - I got hit 1x and so did one other person, no one got hooked.

    Either silver with 1 bar from Gold or gold with 1 bar from Iridescent.

    Yes that was only a safety pip on the dot which is completely asinine.


    You basically have to let people get hooked and then unhook and heal them full in order to pip along with lots of gens, totems, chests, sabo etc.


    For killers you'll have to hook, damage gens and then let them unhooks, lots of chasing, lots of hits, more hooks etc.


    So basically if the game isn't a farming simulator you're not going to pip currently and it basically destroys the game for stealth players. Since if you can't loop the killer for 5 gens you're screwed.

    For killers you wanted longer games and you got what you wanted, but if the game doesn't last 10-20 minutes you get no pip.

  • Gorgonia
    Gorgonia Member Posts: 1,607

    While in terms of the game functioning 4 survivors = 1 killer, hence each side is a 50% of the equation, when it comes to making the game fun and entertaining for everyone then each survivor needs to have as much fun as one killer. Survivors, logically, are more numerous than killers and while they are not indispensable for the game’s sake (you could have a 1vs 3, 2 or 1) they are indispensable in a quality kind of way (a 1 vs 4 is standard while 1 vs 3 is a bit unfair and if you reduce it even more it’s unplayable). In a standard game, a killer will have fun vs 4, 3, 2 or 1 survivor. It’s not the case the other way round. So basically you sometimes need to make the game fair and fun for the weaker side of the equation (that which is composed by 4 different and smaller portions) to make it more “balanced”.

  • Warlock_2020
    Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,867

    Legion is the best tunneling killer that has ever been produced. Not exactly what survivors wanted to see.

    New DS promotes slugging. Not exactly what survivors want to see.

    Overall, no, I don't think they are pushing us to play as survivors want us to play. They may be discouraging camping, but the rest...not so much.

  • The_Manlet
    The_Manlet Member Posts: 474
    edited March 2019

    Fair? Who cares, free grasp escapes are almost gone! How can any killer complain about anything when Decisive Strike is finally being dealt with?

  • xmenfanatic
    xmenfanatic Member Posts: 816

    No.

  • Mister_xD
    Mister_xD Member Posts: 7,669

    they are trying ot make the game "fun" for both sides. that also includes taking away some killer strategies that are considered to be no "fun" from the survivor side.

    thats why we got so many anti camping / tunneling perks and mechanics. its their desperate attempt to make killers stop these actions.

  • Eveline
    Eveline Member Posts: 2,340

    Who cares about points. When I encounter toxic survivors with Bubba, it is basement party time. Make them miserable as much as I can.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871
    edited March 2019

    The scoring system they're trying to implement feels deliberately inconsistent with how the game ends up being played because the devs want to prevent people from playing the game in an unfun way through point and rank penalties rather than in-game penalties (or benefits). I feel like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want games to be longer and ones where everyone "has fun," but they are trying to do so without fundamentally altering the balance of the game. I don't really think that's possible, nor do I think it's a good idea to try and make it happen. Either leave it as is, or make actual fundamental changes to materialize your vision of balance.

  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874
    edited March 2019

    Short answer, it really look like it.

    Long answer

    Here's a little history leçon for the young bird of dbd.

    Do you remenber when the piping requirement was to kill survivor?

    Before that it was based on bloodpoint gainned.

    Do you know why it was changed to needing kill to pip up?

    Survivor where whinning that killer where ranking up easily that's why.

    Then survivor started to whine that killer where actuly trying to kill them because they wanted to rank up and now we have today ranking system.

    Ranking system that is once again being changed to accomodate the whinning survivor by giving penalty for camping and now for not letting survivor get free unhook


    PS: #NotAllSurvivor

  • ShaneQ
    ShaneQ Member Posts: 134

    Lul, the two play styles that ruin the game, Gen rush is the biggest problem in this game. I prefer playing survivor but play killer a lot more because of queue times and that. No matter what side you play gen rushing is a lot worse than "tunneling" for example. A coordinated team can do 5 gens in 5 minutes. A killer trying to camp has other survivors to deal with while trying to protect the hook, not to mention survivors have plenty of anti camp perks to help them. I don't camp personally, when I get camped I die and move on, its a game.(sometimes as a survivor I deserve to be camped and actually enjoy it lol) As for tunneling I mean if a killer hooks a survivor twice their gonna be called for tunneling so I don't really care about tunnelling but for a killer to camp and tunnel all players gives survivors enough time to complete like 10 gens.

  • The_Bogeyman
    The_Bogeyman Member Posts: 269

    Nope. It doesn't feel that way.

  • Terminator525
    Terminator525 Member Posts: 18

    Yes

  • Apoch
    Apoch Member Posts: 96

    The devs have created a situation where while playing as Killer a large portion of the games mechanics can be found to impact the game negativity taking fun and fairness out of the equation.

    Therefore it's up to the Killer if they want to bridge that gap themselves by making their behaviour in game fun and fair for all.

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,616

    Probably.

    Can't really notice it personally, the way i prefer to play has barely been touched.

    Anything after the Generators are repaired can still be a clusterfuck though, whichever side you're on.

  • Coriander
    Coriander Member Posts: 1,119

    I spent an hour and several episodes of South Park typing out a three-page reply to this, but the rest of you had said some points pretty well. They're trying to make the game itself more fun on the whole, not just for one side. That's why they change the Rank system periodically, to encourage fair and varied play, not specific behavior that puts a lot of players off.

    Fun doesn't equate to either winning or losing, just like playing sports. You can do your best, lose, but still have fun. That's what makes the game fun: not knowing if you're going to win, but trying your best to do so anyway.

  • Acromio
    Acromio Member Posts: 1,737

    @OP I mean, they've been doing it since the LEATHERFACE DLC.

  • HeroLives
    HeroLives Member Posts: 1,985

    There’s still rancor plus enduring. You get a ballsy enough 4man at end game you can mori them all if you’re on to their tactics.

  • NathanExplosion
    NathanExplosion Member Posts: 337

    @Raccoon

    Don't forget the incoming lobby change where you will no longer be able to guess if it's a SWF team or not.

    They want killers, actually human players, to act and use strategy/pattern of an AI.

    Some sort of free workers for them when you think about it :

    Forcing this already addicted part of the playerbase (which a good part will surely accept as usual) into this make them save money from working on potential killer AI.


  • Gorgonia
    Gorgonia Member Posts: 1,607

    Why do people keep insisting that gen rushing is a thing survivors provoke? That’s the survivor’s objective. Should they start the game and let you kill two before they start repairing? If gens take too little to repair that’s not the survivors’ fault.

    Either way, people complain a lot about games that I haven’t seen much lately. Repairing 5 gens in a game can be hard most of the time. Lots of red ranked killers complaining about gen rush can mean but a single thing: you might not deserve that rank.

  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,020

    Survivors have been getting nerfed alot after the slugging nerf, I say we call it even

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,713

    *gets punished for capitalizing on the mistakes of opponent*

    Makes sense!

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,713

    This topic has certainly aged well :D

  • Warlock_2020
    Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,867

    lol If they are trying to, they are failing horribly.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,590

    Yes.