Will stranger things hurt the experience for new players?
So, stranger things is back and I love it: the map, demo and the perks.
Of course before we didn't have this dlc available so this perks where free, and they are great perks.
The point is that those perks helped new players experience different play styles without the need to farm a ton or use money:
As you can see there is at least:
-One good information perk
-One good chase perk
-One good healing/anti healing perk
-And one good objective defense perk.
All of this in both sides.
As you may have already noticed I don't mention character specific perks since a new player only has access to these perks and the perks of the character they are using. There character with solid perks like doctor and hag but if you are playing with huntress for example... You need other perks.
So, here is the new free perk pool after stranger things:
And there is a lot to unpack here so first of all:
-Killers lose jolt wich is basically their only slowdown at this point on the game.
-Then the overall perks both sides have left aren't too good. The "very weak" category is basically all the useless free perks so might as well delete it.
What do we have left?, we have perks with terrible synergy, really nice information perks and average chase perks at best.
Before new players had a wider range of builds and ways of playing, but that's just my opinion so what do you guys think?
Comments
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Just as a good faith note for the future, it might be worth crediting your sources, or linking to their video if you're taking screenshots from it to express the exact same point.
However yes, I broadly agree with the point.
The loss of these perks for new players will be limiting no doubt, however I think its worth factoring the roster of free characters perks in this assessment.
For Objectives you also have:
- Unnerving Presense, Brutal Strength, Hex: Ruin, Thanataphobia, Hex: Huntress Lullaby, Overcharge
- Prove Thyself, Streetwise, and there's quite a few that loosely fit here, like Deja Vu, Saboteur, Ace In The Hole, etc.
Not all of these are good ofc, but a new player will be unlocking perks up to level 44ish for a new character, and while a lot of these perks aren't good, for a new player they're serviceable. Like we all know that Unrelenting is trash, bit for a new player, it helps, and Huntress Lullaby will do well for a rookie player against rookie survivors.
That said, expanding on the basic perk repertoire, is certainly not a bad thing... assuming we got some adequate new ideas to fill the gap 😏
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I dont think it is that much of a big deal, since there are free characters (including their perks) to play.
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Maybe Demo, since Surge is massively popular. So new players won't have access to it without paying. Steve and Nancy's perks are pretty good for the most part but I think survivors can take them or leave them really.
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I've thought for some time that the 4 oldest paid survivors and maybe 2-3 oldest paid killers (non-licensed) should now be free, or the older they get (again non licensed) should be much cheaper or sold as bundles to offset the fact that the game as far as content goes (Call them the OG survivor/killer bundles or some **** LOL), has grown so much and what someone pays $20 for the base game vs what they get is not very appealing. Not when you look at how much additional content there is. The game is continuing to grow and the base game should as well. Then give people who already bought those DLCs shards or something. Maybe an exclusive skin for those characters IDK. They'll get over it tho, I promise XD.
Now that there are 6 survivor perks and 3 killer perks that are now paywalled again, I think this is even more true. Even when you factor in you can buy the non-licensed characters with shards, its still a huge grind. It SHOULD be a grind if you're obtaining content through grinding vs paying cash. If there's no grind there's nothing to play for, but the grind can still be TOO much.
I already have every DLC and will have the Chucky DLC 5 minutes after it drops so I'm not complaining on my behalf, just what I think would help newer players want to stick around.
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I see what you mean but I think it won't have a huge impact on survivors because all of these perks are not super meta. For killers it's sad that Surge (or is it Jolt? Which one is it, I'm confused.) will be locked behind a dlc. It's pretty much the only regression perk that was available right off the bat, so that is not great. Then again, we managed before, so it might not be quite so bad.
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I think the Survivor perks are decent (maybe even especially good for beginners), but I don't think it would hurt too much to start playing now without them.
For Killers though? I think it will be rough. Jolt/Surge is still the only gen regression perk I regularaly use and one that is invaluable for basic attack Killers (which is the majority of the beginner friendly Killers). Fearmonger/Mindbreaker is also a strong perk. Very good for Wraith. Also counters aura perks, which are popular with beginner Survivors.
Sloppy is good slowdown but only if Survivors don't want to play injured (to be fair, if the MMR is working as it should this will be true of most beginner Survivors). But I don't realistically see any new player dumping all their BP into the Nurse, a very hard Killer to learn, just to unlock her Thana perk for slowdown. And Overcharge, Ruin and Pop are only available to some console players.
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I agree, they should add the oldest DLCs to the base game. Hag/Ace would bring access to Ruin and Devour (Hexes are strong with newer players), Doc/Feng would bring Overcharge/Lithe/Alert, and esp. Clown/Kate would bring two meta-perks with Pop and Windows. They would still have to be leveled, but at least they could be free.
Imo it would be perfectly fair to up the cost of the base game to 25€ as compensation.
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Pop? I thought that Clown's dlc is also not free for the console players. I am ps5 user and I had to buy that dlc seperately.
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I really should have, my mistake .
So yeah otdarva talked about this in his newest video and I just wanted to talk about it myself, I usually credit the original creators when I do this kind of stuff but this time I either forgot or didn't think it through.
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I bought DbD on Switch and I got Clown and Kate with it. I got everything up to Spirit and Adam's chapter when I bought the game.
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I play on ps5 and I had to buy all of that
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Might have been a bundle?
Kate and Clown are available for shards, but are not in the base game. For clarity the base game consists of: -
Survivors
- Dwight (Bond, Prove Thyself, Leader)
- Meg (Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Quick & Quiet)
- Claudette (Empathy, Self Care, Botany Knowledge)
- Jake (Sabotuer, Calm Spirit, Iron Will)
- Nea (Bakanced Landing, Urban Evasion, Streetwise)
- Ace (Up The Ante, Open Handed, Ace In The Hole)
- Feng (Lithe, Alert, Technician)
- David (Dead Hard, No Mither, WGLF)
- Bill (Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Left Behind)
Killers
- Trapper (Brutal Strength, Agitation, Unnerving Presence)
- Wraith (Shadowborn, Predator, Bloodhound)
- Hillbilly (Enduring, Lightborn, Tinkerer)
- Nurse (Nurse's Calling, Strider, Thanataphobia)
- Hag (Devour Hope, Third Seal, Ruin)
- Huntress (Huntress Lullaby, Territorial Imperative, Beast of Prey)
- Doctor (Monitor & Abuse, Overcharge, Overwhelming Presence)
There is an argument that while learning the game, it's probably better not to have too many meta perks, so the player can learn to play without them instead of relying heavily on them.
Edit: Seems this applies only to consoles, I missed Feng as a free char on console somehow. But I'll update for my own reference in future 😁
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
Yeah the Switch edition comes with them. Their chapters arent even in the store because they're included with base game
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Yeah, I agree. If they added those older DLCs but up the price of the base game a bit that would be fair. TCM is like a $40 game so DBD would still be a steal compared to that.
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Justquickly chiming in here: as an avid achievement hunter and someone who got every last achievement and tome challenges in the game done, regardless of role, I remember that I struggled quite hard with Tools of the Trade,
ie "Achieve a merciless victory 5 times in a public match with only 3 universal perks equipped."
and back at that time got hard carried by Jolt. Nowadays with 2000h of killer experience below that belt I wouldn't mind trying it again with the new options, but back then it was really, really hard and somewhat (sorry) "unfun" and "frustrating experience ".
I remember vividly how Jolt carried many of the games back then, just because no other core killer perk gave you any sort of slowdown and nearly all of he free killer perks provide mediocre utility at best... but I guess they are really good to Hammer the basics of killer gameplay down, because they don't allow for any fancy builds or fallback techs, just good, old-fashioned chase&M1 gameplay. Deerstalker for finding a slug is the biggest concession the game might throw at you :D
On the other hand, the changes to 4K=merciless rating trivialise this achievement a lot and now you just gotta keep playing a couple of games till you stomp 5 times.
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Ace, Hag and Doctor are not part of the base game in the Steam version, you have to buy them with shards, auric cells or as Steam DLC.
Don't know about consoles, but if that chars are part of base game with the console version, than Steam version should honestly change it similar to the console versions.
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This Edition of Dead by Daylight gives you access to a roster of 7 Killers (The Trapper, The Hillbilly, The Wraith, The Nurse, The Hag, The Huntress and The Doctor) and 9 Survivors (Meg Thomas, Claudette Morel, Jake Park, Dwight Fairfield, Ace Visconti, Nea Karlsson, Bill Overbeck, Feng Min and David King).
Huh... apparently Feng Min is in the base game on PS4/PS5 too... I thought I bought her.
Oh well... interesting there is a difference.... live and learn I guess.🤔
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For survivors it’s not too bad. There’s a few really good universal perks there (Deja Vu, Resilience, Kindred, We’ll Make It already make up a pretty solid build) and you’ve got Meg for free who has some of the best perks in the game. And then there’s Dwight and Bill who have some decent perks for new players and Feng if you are console who has some good perks as well. The Stranger Things perks weren’t really that good compared to what other perks they have available.
Killers though it will be worse. The only good universal perks there are Sloppy and NOED. Everything else is just bad. The free killers also don’t have many good perks either aside from Hillbilly. None of the free killers have any slowdown perks aside from Thanatophobia which is not a good perk and none of the free killers can even use it well. Jolt/Surge was the only regression perk new players had and now they won’t have anything which kinda sucks.
Curtain Call should just be a free DLC at this point so killers can have someone with some form of regression with Pop and survivors would get access to WoO which is very helpful for new players.
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Feng came with the same DLC which brought Doctor, so both would be base or none. I recognized you didn't list her too, but didn't question it ^^.
So when Hag and Doc DLCs are in the base game of the PS4 / PS5, they honestly should add them to base in Steam as well. Does someone know how it's with Epic?
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Losing Jolt is actually going to be extremely detrimental for killers. It made so many killers playable, without that they're gonna struggle hard. (unless they buy the DLC of course)
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All they need to do is rework the Shrine of Secrets, as well as decreasing the price to make it easier for people to get perks from it.
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