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Remember when they confirmed a hug tech is an exploit and would be fixed a year and a half ago?

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MrSquiggles
MrSquiggles Member Posts: 12
edited November 2023 in General Discussions

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/321750/thoughts-on-blight-tech (Found in this post)

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitch, or use elements of a game system in a manner not intended by the game's designers, in a way that gives a substantial unfair advantage to players using it." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit)

Comments

  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482
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    Who knows, they could just be considering it as basekit now. It adds a good level of skill expression to the game, for both sides. Wish they would just give an answer to this so we can stop making repetitive threads and debates.

    However, the hug tech does not give a “substantial unfair advantage”.

    The locker exploit that was recently patched is a key example of a “substantial unfair advantage”.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,183
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    I would just like an official statement on the matter at this point.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,231
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    I'm still waiting for several of Kate's cosmetics to be fixed that I posted about a year and a half ago too. It was marked as under review too awhile back and still hasn't been addressed. It does seem like things are forgotten sometimes.

  • MikeyBoi
    MikeyBoi Member Posts: 534
    edited November 2023
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    Hugteching with Blighted rat, crow and or Adrenaline vial imo is pretty…….overtuned depending on how good the blight is, it’s hard to touch blights basekit because the skill ceiling to play blight is high, but those who defend that hugteching with Blighted rat/crow and or Adrenaline vail when the blights good is fair are delusional, especially in pubs..

  • Quizzy
    Quizzy Member Posts: 819
    edited November 2023
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    Ever since blight came out, the dev who made the blight considered hug tech not intended. Unfortunately he left before he could find a solution. Would've taken too long anyways considering this issue hasn't been solved even now

  • Mooks
    Mooks Member Posts: 14,290
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    But they gave an answer to this already? It is considered a bug and is supposed to get a fix - of course they can change their mind but as of now we do have an official statement and that one is clear.

    otherwise, no statement of them clarifies anything as they might change their mind later on as well..

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,164
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    In any case, it would be nice to have word from the devs.

    Many of us think, that Hug Tech shouldn't be a thing (mainly because it can grant you hits without too much effort in many situations) but there are also people that defend Hug Tech. I accept that, even if I don't agree. But the radio silence from the devs on this issue isn't helping. Every few weeks we have the same discussion again and we ask for an official statement. So far without success.

    Repeating the same arguments over and over again, won't change our opinions on the matter, so these posts also don't help anyone anymore.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,284
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    Fixing things already in the game doesnt make money, guys. You need to think like a company. New chapters and cosmetics make money. We will have rift after rift before things that dont make money get fixed. Its logical business sense.

  • Mooks
    Mooks Member Posts: 14,290
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    Yeah for real!

    the people that create the rift stuff, cosmetics and challenges, should finally do the important tasks and fix gameplay bugs.

    they should really stop making anything that actually keeps this live service game alive.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,284
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    Im sure they're job is to create. I wonder if there's a group at BHVR for fixing things. Clearly not lol.

  • Mooks
    Mooks Member Posts: 14,290
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    Clearly not, since everything is bug ridden, nothing is working at all, and there is no bug fix patches whatsoever.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,284
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    I dont want hug tech to ever go away. But you can't say things in favor of it when your name is literally what it is, and be taken seriously. Naturally, you like it.

    To a newer player, hug tech is monumentally an unfair advantage. To a seasoned survivor, its just annoying. Perspective is important on these very wide, very vague takes lol. Good skill expression on both sides? I know what you mean, but I doubt a good bunch of survivors know how hug-tech's expression applies to them lol

  • SleepyLunatic
    SleepyLunatic Member Posts: 287
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  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,297
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    Blight still has many many collision issues that need to be ironed out first, then four or so add-ons tweaked. After that let's talk techs.

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
    edited November 2023
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    I love these threads. They appear periodically and it always goes like this: on one side, people that really believe this will ever be fixed (soon™), on the other, blight players full on copium saying it's a feature, or that bhvr is considering turning it into such

    It's a bug, we all know it. It won't get fixed, so learn to play around it, it's probably the least important of blight's problems

    Post edited by egg_ on
  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482
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    It happens so often, I just consider it argument by ad hominem at this point.

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 1,714
    edited November 2023
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    gotta imagine they will be changing everything about him in one patch. addons, hug tech, maybe basekit, etc

  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482
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    It was already said he’s not being nerfed. Only addon changes. But there is no date on that.

  • lav3
    lav3 Member Posts: 758
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    Starting to wonder if preventing Blight to look down during Rush is complicated.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,284
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  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 866
    edited November 2023
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    BHVR takes a long time to do much of anything, but what I assume is complicating things here is that the person who originally worked on Blight gameplay coding almost alone left the studio, and even he said that getting Blight to work properly (or as properly as he does work) was quite the arduous undertaking to begin with. I think BHVR just doesn't want to open the can of worms that is going into Blight gameplay mechanics.

    I don't think hug tech is ultimately what pushes Blight into problematic territory. It requires skill to use well and there is still counterplay. I find it cool and would want for it to be maintained. It's other aspects of his kit that are really problematic. Most of all of course his add-ons; Vial, Ring, Compound 33 and double speed most of all. Changing these is easy, it's beyond me why BHVR hasn't. Making it so that Vial doesn't increase token recharge and rush speed, that Ring only gives back all rush tokens on a down rather than any hit, that Compound decreases token recharge speed and slightly decreasing the numbers on Crow and Rat doesn't require any real dealing with Blight gameplay code and should be something that can be done in a day.

    The only basekit adjustment I would like to see for Blight is that pallets should be more meaningful. This could be achieved either by making it so that Blight can't break pallets with rush attacks, or that stunning Blight drains all his rush tokens.

  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482
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    I got you.. but the frequency that I’m insulted or made to be illegitimate because of my name on here is quite astounding lol.

    Name and profile pic should not mean anything in terms of debate on here.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,297
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    Would you keep that name here, should they go crazier and remove the tech?

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,260
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    The fix will come the same time as cross-progression (read:never)

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,056
    edited November 2023
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    I don't see the word exploit in Mandy's post. Exploit is something you came up with. If BHVR thought of it as an exploit they would say so. Its a bug, and a fairly hard one to fix as it is most likely in the games engine.

    Anyways, I bet you don't even realize what "Hug Tech" is refering to in that post. Quite simply, when Blight bounces off the same wall multiple times it forces the Blight's hitbox into the wall. Blights will use this to hook around the object to get a hit. The killer's hitbox going inside the object's hitbox is the bug.

    What many on this forum believe, incorrectly, is that Blight skimming against a wall while in rush is the bug. It is not. In fact that is intended in order to give Blight players control if they want to bounce.

    So when BHVR finally fixes this bug, you are going to be very disappointed.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,007
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    So, i said this before in a similar thread, but basically there are a couple of possibilities here:


    1. Mandy was wrong. This is entirely possible, as Mandy is not a dev but a community coordinator who is responsible for taking information from us, and giving it to devs, and vice versa. Mistakes happen, and it isn't that big of a deal.
    2. Someone Mandy talked to was wrong. You can talk to one dev, and they say its not working as intended, but then maybe they went to the person who is most knowledgeable about blight, and they said "no this is actually intended" and they didn't give the info back to us.
    3. It turns out this is impossible to fix without completely destroying blight, so they decided that they aren't going to fix it.
    4. They changed their mind after doing testing, and found that it caused more issues than it solved, and decided to not fix it and keep it in as working as intended.


    Now comes the most important question for YOU though. How would YOU fix hug tech? The reason that hug tech exists, is because blight has some immunity to bouncing off of thing when he starts a dash really close to something. This is something that DID NOT EXIST on the PTB for blight. And do you know what happened? Blight would constantly get stuck on the tiniest little rocks or cracks or slight bumps in the geometry of the map, that you often wouldn't be able to actually use your power in many places.

    In light of that, how would you fix the hug tech issue, which itself is caused by the fix for the issue of blight bouncing off every tiny surface, without reintroducing the original bug/oversight/poor design/issue?

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,771
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    Is Chucky supposed to swing when he collides with a wall? He appeared to be working as intended (when I checked him out). Blight is designed to bump when you rush at an object, and aiming down is not meant to change the collision of objects, making it clearly not working as intended.

    I'm not sure where you are getting "substantial unfair advantage" from. This is the game rules text:

    Exploit bugs, errors in design, or undocumented features to gain access to what otherwise would not be available or to obtain a competitive advantage

    The specific phrasing they use here is "competitive advantage", which the bug exploit most certainly grants, as well as "what otherwise would not be available".

    My understanding is when they 'fixed' his crotch height camera to be the other head instead, it disconnected the 2 checks they had programmed for collision. 1 was connected to the physical location, and 1 was connected to the camera. When they were they same spot, it was (mostly) working correctly. When they attempted to fix it (after moving the camera), they 'duct-taped' on the second check, and called it a day more or less.

    Honestly reverting Blight to his old crotch height camera (which fixed most of his bumping bugs at the cost of being slightly annoying to play) would probably be for the best.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,007
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    Devs have made it clear in the past, that now that they have the killswitch, things that are "exploits" that can be killswitched aren't bannable. If they thought this was an exploit, they would killswitch blight until it was fixed.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,771
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    My understanding was they were only using the killswitch on things that impacted a significantly large enough percentage of matches. There was that one patch where the Twins were actually bugged unplayable (sometimes on swap to or from Victor it would lock the camera in the ground), and they didn't killswitch it when they should have. Similarly with Pinhead in another patch (I think Survivors couldn't play and were perma incapped?), and when Merciless Storm was regressing ~80% of a gen on a failed check where they weren't killswitched.

    If what you allege is true I would like a link to that claim (only bannable things are killswitched). The picture (of Mandy's post) in the OP clearly states 'hugtech' is a bug exploit (technically just a bug, but its intentional usage means the player is exploiting it), and with the game rules they list exploiting bugs for a competitive advantage or gaining what isn't normally possible to be against the game rules (see exact text in my prior post).

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,007
    edited November 2023
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    It was mentioned by a dev at some point when someone asked why people weren't getting banned for abusing some bugs but not abusing others. An example i think was the legion bug that allowed you to infinite stack mending. People were banned for exploiting that bug, but not another similar bug, and the reason was because at that time killswitch did not exist, so they banned people for it. Now "if something is ban worthy" they can kill switch it.


    Obviously for stuff like the flashlight locker thing they also kill switched flashlights, but they couldn't kill switch getting a flashlight in a chest, so people who still exploited it were banned.


    Found a few recent examples here:


    Basically if they consider something an "exploit" that is abusable and "gives an unfair competitive advantage" such that it breaks the rules, they would kill switch it and not ban for it.


    Therefore, blight is not kill switched, thus hug tech is fine to use.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,771
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    I think in this case they have no clue how to fix his collision, and are taking a calculated risk for the sake of revenue on Blight skins and character sales. They can't exactly killswitch RMB for Blight until they get it fixed evidently. That also still doesn't explain why Merciless Storm was left in while bugged and regressing gens by 80% even when hitting the skillchecks in that patch, likely also skyrocketing Onryo sales. Essentially there is a grey area of morally dubious behavior by BHVR for the sake of money in the realm of bug exploits and when and when it isn't bannable.

  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482
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    I’d probably change it to some cheesy memorial name for the hug tech. Lol

    You should probably read the OP. You would answer your own question.

    Also, while the hug tech may not have been intended, his collision changing based on camera angle (Looking down) was intended. @Reinami already stated why this was implemented. Blight’s collision was miserably sticky.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,297
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  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,260
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    The devs are very inconsistant regarding the kill switch. The Twins and Merciless Storm should totally have been kill-switched during those times you mentioned, but weren't. The 'ruling' still stands though, you could run Merciless Storm on every killer during that time and you wouldn't be banned for exploting because it wasn't kill switched (even though you would have been exploiting). Even if according the rules, Hug-teching is an exploit, it's not a report-worthy one since he isn't kill-switched.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,132
    edited November 2023
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    Fixing hug tech without breaking many parts of his kit wouldn't be easy. Then what after removing hug tech? Tons of the maps have terrible collision where you have to hug tech to not get stopped on thin air. The bigger issue when it comes to blight is the fact they refuse to nerf his addons which make him insanely easy to get value on.

    Speed addons - more likely to catch someone at a loop & better map traversal

    Alch ring - removes any survivor agency in the chase when you get hit once at a bad pallet and die 4s later

    Blight tag - free instadowns for pressing m2 a lot

    c33 - Free info on nearby survivors, break pallets insanely fast and only need 1 token to do so, and slow down survivors against the killer with super fast movement speed

    c21 - Insane aura reading 4 times with one power usage that removes a lot of mindgames from the survivor side

  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482
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    While I agree with most of what you said, iri tag is absolutely not “free instadowns for pressing m2 a lot”. It takes a massive amount of experience with his power to get consistent value out of that addon.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,132
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    the value is free though no downsides you insta kill people throughout the game

  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482
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    I don’t think you understand “free value”. Pallet breaking with c33 is free value. Anybody can throw that on and reap maximum benefits all game.

    Iri tag is not. You throw this addon and sacrifice an addon that you can get guaranteed value from. Also, so many blight will absolutely throw a hit trying to get that last rush.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,132
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    Some blights going spaghetti and missing doesn't make it a weaker addon. Blight has too much mobility to be given insta downs during power even if it requires some finesse to do.

  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482
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    i didn’t say it’s a “weak” addon. But you’re severely up-playing it as if anybody can throw it on and get value. I have seen ONE iri tag in the last couple months. Hardly anybody runs it. There’s a reason for it.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,771
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    Yeah I see now. On my original reading I saw a definition and a wiki link so I skipped past that part as I both understood the word as well as immediately thought "why not an normal dictionary site or the in-game rules link on the forums here?" Similar to if someone would repost the full text of Adrenaline for a discussion on it in the body when the question "should Adrenaline wake up against Freddy anymore?" is found in the title.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,132
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    Alch ring exists so why would you even run iri tag over speed alch. Even his addons that require some effort to get value get too much of it.