Tatariu's Legion update
THE LEGION | BASE-KIT CHANGES
The Legion is one of Dead by Daylight’s most popular Killers. Their high-intensity sprint isn’t comparable to any other power, and its unique chain-hit mechanic is fun to play with. With this in mind, I’ve compiled a series of changes that will reduce points of frustration while also directly improving their power’s strength.
Chaining together hits is tough when Survivors are so far apart. The Legion often struggles on larger maps and with no way of ending chases, their only real choice is to end their Frenzy and cleanup injured Survivors with a normal attack. To help them chain their attacks more consistently, The Legion’s movement speed during Feral Frenzy has been raised to 6m/s (was 5.2m/s) and the following adjustments have been made:
- Survivors inflicted by the Oblivious status effect are shown on Killer Instinct when within range.
- The depletion of the power gauge pauses when performing actions.
This will help them close the gap on larger maps, and helps them secure downs more often during their Feral Frenzy. Since The Legion’s base-kit has been given such a substantial update, the stack-able movement speed bonus for each attack has been reduced to +0.1m/s (was +0.2m/s).
Speaking of downing Survivors: When The Legion chains together hits and manages to down the last Survivor, they will now be granted a Bloodpoint Score Event for their hard work.
Survivors often stay injured against The Legion. Their pools of blood become hidden and can cause confusion in a multitude of instances. Originally pools of blood were removed from their view to prevent abuse of the Deep Wound status effect, and to encourage The Legion to go after a different target. However as time has gone on, this has caused more frustration than it has solved. Since the Deep Wound status effect can no longer be exploited, Survivor pools of blood are once again visible during Feral Frenzy.
Let’s talk about quality of life, and what improvements are in store for The Legion. When Feral Frenzy ends, a cool-down phase proceeds that darkens the edges of the screen and applies a pitch-lock. This is designed to limit The Legion’s vision, hopefully giving the Survivor time to break line of sight and make some distance. However, this doesn’t accomplish the intended result and has ended up being more frustrating than fair. As a result two changes have been made:
- Reduced the intensity of visual effects when Feral Frenzy ends.
- Removed pitch-lock when Feral Frenzy ends.
Furthermore, The Legion’s movement speed when Feral Frenzy ends has been raised to 2.3m/s (was 2.07m/s) and full movement speed begins being restored before the cool-down elapses. Combined with the above mentioned changes, the fluidity of the power will be greatly improved and you will be able to better track targets when exiting Feral Frenzy.
THE LEGION | ADD-ON CHANGES
The Legion has a diverse set of add-ons. Some alter the power’s attributes, while others apply novel effects. There is a collection of add-ons that are not particularly useful in the majority of matches, and as a result I’ve reworked them, or alternatively simplified their effect to be more commonly effective.
Please note that the Etched Ruler add-on has been replaced by the new Hand Wraps add-on.
- Smiley Face Pin: Causes the Blindness status effect when suffering from Deep Wound.
- Hand Wraps: Increases vaulting speeds during Feral Frenzy by 20%.
- Defaced Smiley Pin: Causes the Oblivious status effect when suffering from Deep Wound.
- Julie’s Mix Tape: Being stunned by a pallet replenishes the power gauge.
- Mural Sketch: Increases the stack-able movement speed bonus during Feral Frenzy to 0.15m/s.
- Never-Sleep Pills: Increases the duration of Feral Frenzy by 5 seconds. The Legion begins Feral Frenzy moving at 5.2m/s. Grants 100-500 Bonus Bloodpoints for Caffeinated Combo Score Events.
- Joey’s Mix Tape: Breaking a pallet or wall replenishes the power gauge.
- The Legion Pin: Causes the Exhausted status effect when suffering from Deep Wound.
- Frank’s Mix Tape: During Feral Frenzy, grants a 30% speed bonus towards damaging generators and breaking walls.
- Stab Wounds Study: During Feral Frenzy, downing a Survivor shows the auras of all Survivors for 5 seconds.
This post is frequently updated and improved when either I hear a solid suggestion from my community, or I think of an improvement worth adding. Due to various revisions, some comments left by users in this thread may be outdated.
Comments
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I'm not reading all that lol
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Pretty good changes
Would be a pretty decent QOL for Legion
You forgot two crucial things though
- Added unique voices for Joey, Susie and HUNK
- Added unique chase music for HUNK
There, now it's perfect
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Then why even bother commenting?
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Little Confused on "Joey's mix tape"
undetectable gets rid of terror radius correct? and isn't legions power tied to terror radius? so wouldnt legion not be able to see his killer instinct?
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Hey! If The Legion is Undetectable and uses a Killer Instinct range add-on, it will use that new range effect instead - allowing you to see Survivors within limited range (in this case 20 meters). Hope this makes sense!
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Okay, yeah it makes much more sense.
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I updated my original post:
- Corrected minor grammar error
- Added full list of suggested add-on changes
Enjoy!
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Legions detection has 2 parts. TR + Range. "Range" is usually 0, and mainly the TR is used. Range addons add extra distance where KI triggers, but survivors cant hear the terror radius. If you have +20m range and are undetectable, its 0 + 20 range. Useful in stealth legion builds.
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im confused on having Hemorrage as an Addon Effect and changing Joeys for that-
Isnt Hemorrage kinda useless on Legion ?
Also why not just make an Addon that gives both Mangled and Hamorrage ?
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I like all of these change. The DBD dev are very slow at updating killers. Amazing changes that are unlikely to enter the game. If they do enter the game, you will be waiting 1 year+.
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With the removal of Broken, and Mangled taking its place, I felt it would make more sense to have the lower rarity 'pin' add-on apply the Hemorrhage status effect. With Legion being able to see pools of blood in my proposed update, Hemorrhage would have more value, but didn't need to be rated as highly as it currently is on the live server.
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These are some of the best suggested legion changes I’ve seen in forever. I pray these are added because the bff’s change would make his M1 portion of the game easier and Joey’s Mixtape changes making you undetectable during frenzy sounds like a really fun fast and stabby ghostface.
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As a legion main myself I like these changes. I always thought the broken addon was counter intuitive for Legion. I want you to waste time healing and that addon made it so they couldn't for 60s. Also, I really like the ability to see pools of blood while frenzied. These changes make stealth legion a lot more viable too.
SUSIE MAINS UNITE!
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Hand wraps is SUCH a good idea. An add-on that increases vault speed makes so much sense after they decoupled that from perks like bam etc.
QoL stuff like ditching the feral frenzy cooldown pitch lock just makes sense.
I don't see anything problematic in these changes at all, make the killer feel more fun to play without changing how they work as a killer in the meta. Great stuff
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legion's ability sucks against medium-high survivors and therefore instead of buffing the legion will receive useless blood points
I wouldn't be surprised if you made a sadako buff that nerfd her
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Add Unique mori for HUNK and you got me a definite buy
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I like the ideas but the main problem with legion is that he doesn’t have any real way to counter loops so if survivors know how to loop then legion is boned
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I added Frank's Mix Tape's power pause aspect into the base-kit and adjusted a handful of the add-ons on the list.
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I like these changes! They'd actually make me want to play legion a little more.
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It would be cool if, instead of making Pills to set the speed to 4.6, only decrease it (like a -1.2 m/s making it 4.8 m/s) , but also decreasing the extra duration to 8 or even 5 seconds, by this, if the NSP users want to have a longer power, they have to pair it with the list, and if they don't, their power will be less longer and more speedy, so survivors wouldn't suffer that much playing agaist an infinite power Legion because it would be more close to the current base kit ( ╹▽╹ )
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Agreed
Mabye even new mori for HUNK as a cherry on top?
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That and a new voice too honestly...
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Proposed Frank’s Mix tape is a great idea and would encourage more uses of Legion’s power to down survivors
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change to joeys addon
-removed vaulting speed bonus
+buffed to 33% bonus action speed
+performing a break action increases the remaining duration of feral frenzy by 4 seconds
reasoning it takes ~2 seconds to preform a break action on gens and it would take ~4 seconds to make up the distance lost at 6m/s to the survivor while preforming one, if its optimal in your routing this addon gives you that time back and makes it a bit faster so you would gain roughly 1s of extra duration total from the break action to chase survivors and regress the gen a bit
also just a general addon idea
+increases vaulting speed by 15%
+vaulting a window blocks it for the duration of feral frenzy and for 16s afterwards.
~activating feral frenzy immediately unblocks all windows under this effect
literally just bamboozle the addon
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Was already listed in the comment I replied to
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I like it. I would add a punishing affect for hitting a deep wounded survivor to add a bit of a risk reward by giving good survivors the option of bodyblocking for a healthy survivor. Aside from that A+.
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This is a super solid legion update with a lot of QOL changes.
If I were to give some of my own input, either in replace of "Hand Wraps" or along with the "Hand Wraps" addon, legion should have their collision consistency looked at.
- When cancelling frenzy, legion loses collision for a brief period of time, most of the time allowing survivors to run through you and vault pallet or windows, completely negating a strategic frenzy cancel and often ending up with a longer chase then if frenzy had never started in the first place. This is still a very cool addon, but i think it may be more effective to fix collision, rather than an addon for a fix.
I along with this post I also think legion should move faster, though how it happens I don't mind
- Whether that is greatly increasing the base speed and removing the speed stack, or slightly increasing the speed and keeping the stack. Legion is incredibly map dependent, and favors smaller maps, BUT even on smaller maps it is very rare to actually get a down with frenzy. And with no duration or speed addons, even on small maps it is near impossible to get a down.
- While legion is a map pressure killer, and getting a down with frenzy likely shouldn't be how a down happens every time, in many cases, you still cant create solid map pressure because legion is not fast enough to do so.
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I would say most of the changes are reasonable.
- Legion should be able to see blood pools in Feral Frenzy. Not being able to see them is an outdated part of his kit from when he was originally released and was able to down survivors with 4 consecutive hits. 3 with an addon, in Feral Frenzy. Since the Legion's power no longer mechanically works to hard focus one survivor with multiple frenzy hits, and they're playstyle is geared towards tagging multiple survivors, this change would be inconsequential to their overall performance.
- As for buffing the Legion speed to 6.0m/s, this should probably be tested on a PTB first.
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100% agreed! 6m/s as a starting speed is a bit risky! I'd like it tested on a PTB, and if it's too strong then either the base speed could be upped to 5.6m/s, or alternatively scrapped altogether.
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Could change 5 hits to 4 hits at least because when a survivor die or 2 frenzy gets useless because you make 2 hits or 3 and nothing more you cant make a round of 5 hits so legion is like no power to use, just for run?
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Me when i want my main buffed because it’s my main and…
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How many survs on average do you feel its balanced to hit in a single frenzy?
I'm all for these buffs but not without changing the boring mend mechanic, as well as even an overall skill floor increase for the killer.
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I love Legion, but don't play them much for many of the reasons we all know. I would love to see some changes made that would make their "power" feel, well, powerful.
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If they're all grouped up, then Legion should easily be able to hit 3 Survivors (assuming they don't try to stun, or body-block Legion).
I'd love for base mending times to be 8s instead of 12s and for them to grant 250 Bloodpoints instead of 150.
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Some QoL things that I came up with:
-Legion loses collision with deep wounded survivors while they are in Feral Frenzy (also fix the bug where they lose colision when the Frenzy ends so that survivors can't go through you and vault a pallet or window). This is because bodyblocking is too safe of a counterplay against them. A deep wounded survivor can safely protect a healthy one, forcing me to end my frenzy and then the healthy survivor can protect the deep wounded one from basic attacks.
-Legion requires now to chain n+1 hits in frenzy to get a down with their power, where n is the number of survivors alive in a trial. If they ever add a 2vs8 mode, the number of hits can't be more than 5 to get the down.
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6m/s sounds too fast for me. I feel like survivors would rarely be able to get away especially on maps like midwich.
I don't like the removal of legion pin applying broken. I think it has a place and i don't think it's OP.
I also don't like the stab wounds study change. It sounds worse than what we have now.
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I don't think Legion should be buffed until something is done about the fifth hit down. It's just an awful idea. As long as that fifth hit down remains in the game, making a killer whose gameplay loop is so basic and binary better at his job just pushes him in the direction of "you will always get a down and there isn't diddly squat the survivors can do."
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I agree that 6m/s could be too fast and would be content with the speed remaining unchanged.
On the topic of the add-ons you mentioned:
- The change towards The Legion Pin was motivated due to the amount of pressure it provides against lesser experienced Survivors. There was too great of a power difference between the add-ons use against weaker players, and more experienced ones.
- Stab Wounds Study received its rework to make it a more unique aura reading option; its current effect scales up from Stylish Sunglasses and can often make it seem redundant. To address this 'power creep' aspect of the add-on, I opted to rework it and buff the duration by a bit.
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Being able to body-block Legion during their Frenzy is a core element of counterplay and would be very dangerous to remove.
I have no comment on the chain-hit requirements for the Frenzy down at this time.
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Hey, Tat.
This amount of detail and effort is extremely refreshing to see. I joined DbD because of Legion and I’m glad to see that there are folks still passionate about them.
I brought up this question very recently when playing Legion and asked a couple of my friends for their input too and I wanted to see what your thoughts are on his too.
How can we make Legion more interesting for survivors as well?
The one thing I’ve been told is that legion is boring. My friends think Legion is boring, Survivors in my own games think legion is boring, going as far as to give up immediately upon seeing them and even I get bored playing against Legions running triple slowdown perks.
My question is how can we make Legion’s power interesting for both sides of the game while simultaneously maintaining their identity as “The Legion”? The issue lies with Deep Wound, imo. No one likes sitting and holding a button for 12 seconds only to be stabbed and left to do the same thing again a few minutes later.
I think about recent Killers like Alien, Singularity, and Skull Merchant (hear me out) who all have, not necessarily survivor counterplay but, survivor interactions. I genuinely love Legion and I want to see them get more love from the community and devs alike. You’ve been playing Legion longer than I have and I think if anyone should have at least an idea of a potential power rework, it could be you.
Please let me know your thoughts, if any!
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I believe a total power rework would be a financial disaster. Legion has the most cosmetics in-store of any Killer, and they have a very high player-base. Changing their power too drastically would potentially ruin the character for those who currently enjoy them.
What's more likely are improvements to existing mechanics, such as Deep Wound and Mending.
Some simple improvements to the Mend action include:
- Mending takes 8 seconds (was 12 seconds).
- Mending grants 250 Bloodpoints (was 150 Bloodpoints).
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Those changes sound great, nothing against that, I’m just wondering if there’s something more we can do to make Legion more interactive for survivors. Different visual effects on their side? A special deep wound meter? Maybe an icon indicator that lets Survs know how many Frenzy hits the team has taken in a single chain? (Although, this one feels a bit redundant if you can just count lol) Anything that spices up their gameplay for the other party.
I understand where you’re coming from, tho. I just hope when Legion does eventually get updated, it isn’t JUST a few Killer changes at the end of some patch notes.
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BHVR you have done an amazing job with Hillbilly! Let's see some of the same treatment made to Legion! ^-^
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The effect of Joey's Mixtape would apply while in Feral Frenzy? If i'm using my power with Joey's and i Break a wall, i would get the full power back in order to use it as a duration addon?
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Yes. Julie's Mix Tape and Joey's Mix Tape work both during Frenzy and when its on cool-down.
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Awesome changes man! Hopefully Bhvr will see this and finally implement the changes Legion needs. :tatariuCATFACE:
Post edited by Exxclipse on0 -
A bunch of good changes, i like the joeys ormond combo. it could encourage a cool play style that would give players more variety in their games with legion.
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Need that Hunk theme inserted into my legion brain
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Hey BHVR (and community managers) just so we're clear:
- Frank's Mix Tape's pause effect base-kit (also now works for searching lockers, and snuffing totems too)
- Blood pools visible during Frenzy
- 2.3m/s cool-down speed (was 2.07m/s)
- Bloodpoints for downing Survivors during Frenzy
- Decreased visual effects when Frenzy ends
I and many others would be happy if this was all you did; plus or minus some add-on changes :)
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I really wish that someone besides me cared at all that Legion's entire "class fantasy" is supposed to be "runs around really fast, stabbing people", but Frenzy is kind of garbage at chaining hits.
There have been so many times that I've found two survivors next to each other, and they run in opposite directions from each other, and that is enough to prevent me from hitting both of them with the same Frenzy. BHVR even added a special interaction for chaining 5 Frenzy hits, as if this was a realistic goal in most games, especially if a survivor decides to camp a pallet to stun Legion as they lunge for the 3rd or 4th hit.
And there have been so many times that I've hit a survivor with Frenzy, and I look at the killer instinct alerts, and I say to myself "even though I see multiple survivors with killer instinct, I know they're all too far away to guarantee a hit", so I cancel my frenzy and chase the person I just hit with Frenzy.
Like, for real, I just want Frenzy to be better at chaining hits. This means I I'd rather Legion never be able to see blood or scratchmarks during Frenzy, if it meant they could get buffs for chaining hits together... because Legion could use killer instinct on the chained hits, and therefore wouldn't need to see blood or scratchmarks to chain hits.
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