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Main event going from 3 hits to 8 hits is terrible. Trickster just went back to being a worse Huntre
Main event going from 3-6 hits, to 8 hits is terrible. Trickster just went back to being a worse Huntress.
1) Main event requiring 8 hits means that if he's chasing someone that's injured, he can waste the main event if no other survivors are around, because main event will often unlock right as the survivor gets knocked to the ground.
2) Main events also often get unused, if the survivor runs Trickster to a place where he can't use it. So even if Trickster is chasing a healthy survivor, he often might get 0 main events for both those health states. This is especially true if main event is unlocked right when the survivor goes from healthy to injured, because they'll get a speed boost to help them get to a part of the map where Trickster can't use main event.
Main event being locked at 6 hits would have been much better, so that Trickster had the option to use Main Event to help get the last 2 hits of the same health state.
...New Trickster doesn't feel like a "rapid fire" gameplay, if I'm going to have many chases with 0 main events. I'm better off just playing Huntress instead, where 1 hit = 1 health state.
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He was overtuned af mate, Main Event is essentially an ultimate, him being able to spam it constantly like he did was just a massive NO.
Also, take in mind he kept most of his other buffs, specially the movement speed and removal of recoil, both pretty heavy buffs, which were also his biggest issues on Live.
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He went from a 4.4 m/s killer to a 4.6 m/s killer and I think people forget how huge of a change that is in itself. Also, the recoil changes allow controller players to actually play him so his usage rates will definitely increase upon release.
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He’s getting buffed to 4.6, that alone is a huge increase to his strength. He’s not going to be weak.
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Trickster has never been a worse Huntress and it's mildly annoying people keep trying to draw a clear comparison between the two like that. The only thing they even have in common is locker reloading and a vague "ranged" component to their powers.
To the wider point of the post, I think you're overreacting. He's still getting all the other buffs, as people have said, and 8 knives is still significantly faster than he gets Main Event on live servers. New Trickster is gonna feel fine, I'd wager.
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But he is now 4.6 aka 115% killer. It is the best buff, behind no recoil.
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How can you call something "Main Event" if its so easy to get. Doesnt seem so main to me. Lol
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I think he used to be exactly that, a range killer that does not need to aim his power to well but is able to spam it without much of a penalty for missing or pulling up at the wrong moment, he is basically a worse huntress, without long range shots basically.
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They work and play completely differently, the only thing they really share (outside locker reloads) is that they can damage at range- but even the way they do it is different and they're not the only killers that do that.
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They both need to pull up their throwing utensil to throw, also have a cooldown when putting it down, both have a lulaby. They work somewhat similar in the sense that they get hits in when you are stuck in animation and that they get somewhat countered by high walls and will destroy you if you cannot seek cover... They are fairly similar...
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6 knives for main event would have been ok too i think, but im ok with 8 aswell.
What i dont like is that they nerfed his blades to where he throws 3 in a volley instead of 4 from the ptb.
After the main event change that wasnt needed i think.
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they over-nerfed him as expected. they did same thing last time. the big nerf is the part where they removed his entire throw-rate buff from 4->3 because that change was meant to counter-act his 6->8 buff. so now his throwing-rate is strictly always worse. I hope they reconsider his throwing-rate change.
they also double nerfed main event because they originally lowered it from 8->6 but they invented add-on to further lower it from 6->4/3. of course they also manage to make both of his iri add-on worthless.
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In the end it is still a massive buff for Trickster...
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For purposely of using his M2, it's not really a buff. With current Trickster, I often throw knives at max non-recoil rate, and only need to land 6 knives per health state.
But nerfing knives to require 8 per health state, means Trickster is supposed to rely more with rapid fire knives, which means less accuracy (even though the recoil has been removed), which means it's easier to run out of knives since they didn't increase the number of knives he can hold. And as I mentioned before, purposely having main event activate at the same number of knives as a health state, means that a lot of main events will get wasted.
And the most important thing about PTB main event, was that PTB Trickster had such a high regular knife throwing rate, that PTB main event wasn't a huge boost like it is on live, and was much more about having unlimited ammo, than it was about the knife throwing rate.
Honestly, I'd rather have the current Trickster, so I only need 6 knives, and not be forced into a rapid fire style that encourages me to run out of knives easily. I don't care about faster walking speed, or zero recoil, because neither or that is going to fix the fact that if I tried a "rapid fire" gameplay with new Trickster, I'd constantly be feeling like I'm out of knives, and that I'm being punished for trying to have a rapid fire gameplay. Also, does anyone else realize how much of a nerf Iridescent Photocard is? With current Trickster, it's literally "hit 4 knives, the survivor is exposed, then M1 for two health states". That was huge, and massively powerful.
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No. His biggest issue on live, is that Trickster is very often in situations, where Huntress could have removed a health state, but Trickster couldn't remove a health state. That's really not going to change with new Trickster, beyond the fact that Trickster's increased moving speed means he will be able to get more M1 attacks than Huntress.
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So nerf should be rename to Regular Event?
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Well, main means principal or major.
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It is definitively a buff, just because you go around tiles faster and are able to get knives in where you would have not been able to land them before as a 110 %m/s killer. That alone is quite massive.
That second paragraph really does not make sense, Trickster used to have 8 knives per health state in past and nobody came to this conclusion? It is now easier to hit the knives, because recoil is gone. And sure technically you need more knives to down someone, but if you ever run out of knives if you can basically miss almost 30 of them just to get a down then there is nothing I can do to help you, you have more than enough knives to get a down and then reload, especially considering how easy it is to aquire main event, which does not use knives.
I think even now the throwing rate during main event is still higher than the throw rate outside of it? According to the wiki main event has a throw rate multiplier of 1.33, if that did not get changed and I don't remember it being mentioned in the patch notes then this statement just is not true? Or did I misunderstand you in some way? I mean sure, he got nerfed from PTB to now, but from current live servers to what will happen in 5 days it is still a massive buff, they really overbuffed him in the first change though.
I don't see how you are being pushed into a certain playstyle? You might want to elaborate on it?
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Yeah sure, but she also gets punished more for missing a hatchet than trickster for missing a knife. Higher risk higher reward I would say. Another reason why people call Trickster a worse easier Huntress.
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People were acting like PTB main event was some overpowered thing that needed to be severely limited, but it wasn't, because Trickster's normal PTB throw rate was so high. Main event on live is a huge thing, because there's a long ramp up with the throw rate. Yes, PTB main event was still a faster throw rate, but it was mostly there for the unlimited ammo.
... Suggestion... If Main Event needed to be nerfed, then BHVR should have just nerfed the throwing rate, so that it's the same as Trickster's normal throwing rate, to make it clear that Main Event is just there for the unlimited ammo.
If Trickster is on a tile where the faster movement speed would be meaningful, then he'd only be getting a knife here or there, and would be fighting the boosted laceration decay.
Recoil being gone is only meaningful if people were trying to rapid fire. If the survivor wasn't super close, then I was either mostly doing the maxed non-recoil fire rate, or I would do short bursts of 2 knives, because the recoil doesn't kick in until the 2nd knife. Trickster could also do bursts of 3 or 4 knives with minimal recoil. Trying to rapid fire knives against a survivor that's not close, is still going to be not very accurate (even with zero recoil) if the survivor is doing wiggle movements... and rapid fire at that range was mostly only doable with main events.
I think people are severely overestimating how accurate people are going to be with rapid fire knives, when the survivor isn't close. The knives have travel time, and even if Trickster perfectly follows the survivor, he can still miss knives if the survivor isn't close.
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But if the throw modifier is the same, then there is no change? Also the thing was overpowered, 6 knives or even 3 with addons is way too little I find even 8 too little since you can get it basically every chase.
If you loop someone on a tile where you cannot get a single knife in every 10 seconds then you seriously need to drop chase... It should be possible failry easily to not suffer from that.
People experienced all that on the PTB and as far as I know most content creators agreed that it was a massive buff and even too much. If you don't hit all of your knives without the recoil then that is completely on you, also survivors loose a huge amount of distance with that wiggling motion and it doesnt even matter because even if you dodge two or three there are 41 more coming so who cares.
Recoil being gone is also affecting main event right? the thing you basically have every chase now?
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The movement speed buff is meant to help in that very thing though, allowing him to keep LoS with survivors far more frequently, something he severely struggles at on loops cause of his slow movement speed.
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The movement speed buff will help him get more M1 attacks, which will help in situations where using the M2 isn't practical.
But this whole idea of idea of Trickster using the movement speed buff to get extra single knife hits, isn't good. If Trickster is in a situation where he can only get a knife hit every once in a while, then he's better off just going for an M1 attack. So yes, it's a buff in the sense that Trickster could end chases faster, but it means using his M2 power less often, which doesn't fit the "We want Trickster to have a rapid fire playstyle" goal that BHVR had with Trickster's rework.
You honestly think people are going to have 100% accuracy if Trickster has 0 recoil, and the survivor isn't in close range? Is that comment for real?
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not really. not with those changes. more of side-grade. trickster is not that good. he needed those changes from PTB.
If you loop someone on a tile where you cannot get a single knife in every 10 seconds then you seriously need to drop chase... It should be possible failry easily to not suffer from that.
in PTB, knives were constant decaying. I dislike how the balance is being based off PTB survivors. PTB survivor are not good. Tru3 tried trickster match on Eyrie of crows and it was 3 man escape. I do not know how much worse he is but if your 3 man escaping ptb trickster and he is getting nerfed. you can only imagine that he will be even easier on live.
survivors loose a huge amount of distance with that wiggling motion and it doesnt even matter because even if you dodge two or three there are 41 more coming so who cares.
your not losing any distance at all. these are not hatchets. His knives are like tiny hitbox knives. there is almost no strafing. it is almost running forward and moving 1 cm to right and 1 cm to left. they are tiniest micro strafes ever. nothing more, nothing less.
I agree in regard to iri card is useless now. Their battery included perk makes no sense either. it gives you 5% haste when gens are done but doesn't work in end game when that is only part of the game that the perk works?
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No clue how you got that conclusion... That statement was literally what the devs said in the dev update, if you don't hit the knife it is on you... You cannot blame recoil any longer. The point is that bigger dodging movements will only slow you down and you would need to do so many that it is basically pointless you will go down when you are in the open even at some distance.
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I still think he is buffed by a lot. He didn't need those changes, they totally overbuffed him.
As if all those guys only played it against PTB survivors and wanted to wait that long instead of just getting in their friends with similar hours to see how it played out...
If you only do a small wiggle every knife, how stupid do you think the killer player is to not adjust to that? You would need to do bigger movements with random patterns considering his knives are (probably) the fastest projectile in the game.
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You would need to do bigger movements with random patterns considering his knives are (probably) the fastest projectile in the game.
no, that is bronze survivor play. you micro dodge until you get to LOS then your safe and just heal for free. the killer adjusting is the mindgame itself. there is no need to do anymore more than that. to be fair, micro play on survivor tends to not matter with slowish killers because gen speed is so oppressive that killer loses even when thyey are winning chases quickly. So 1vs1ing killer is often just blow out for efficient teams.
I still think he is buffed by a lot. He didn't need those changes, they totally overbuffed him.
I do not agree. just huge exaggeration. he had this exact exaggeration first time he was improved, so nothing new.
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If you only move by a little bit to each side what exactly keeps the killer from aiming in the middle didn't move? You would still have a constant hotbox at the middle spot of the movements to the left an right...
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you do not really need to side-step every single knife. as long your not hit 7 times, you will regress to 0 in new trickster. I cannot really explain anything more than that. If you ever played Moba games with tanks or MMO raid games, tanks are meant to absorb the most amount of damage possible without dying. this is sort of the same idea. use fragmented health to make distance ->stall chase-> self-heal.
The Trickster’s fast-paced attacks are what set him apart from other ranged Killers, so we wanted to focus on this rapid fire ‘machine gun’ gameplay for this update. We asked ourselves: What’s better than throwing a bunch of knives? Answer: Throwing even more knives.
the dev's are confusing. "fast-paced attacks are what set him apart from other ranged killers". -removes the part that is suppose to stand out in the update.
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BHVR said "You won’t be able to blame the recoil for that Blade you missed." Do you understand that is NOT the same thing as "if Trickster ever misses a blade, it's 100% the killer's fault"?
Trickster's knives are tiny hitboxes. You can micro dodge them at mid distance because the knives have a travel time.
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The knives move at 55 m/s, they are the fastest projectile in the game...
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Sure but then again the knives are the fastest projectiles in the game without windup like Huntress so who else can you blame?
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Do you understand that the knives have hitboxes that are so small, that at mid distance (or farther), Trickster can miss knives even if he’s literally keeping the survivor in the middle of his screen 100% of the time?
(Middle as in left/right, because the projectiles fall, so Trickster needs to aim higher than the middle of the screen at mid distance (or farther))
((Also, middle as in "he's aiming slightly to the right if the knife is being thrown from the left hand, and slightly to the left if the knife is being thrown from the right hand, because Trickster's knives aim for different parts of the screen, depending on which hand is throwing, and removing recoil doesn't change that, which means console players will still have aiming issues if they can't micro fix literally every other knife being thrown))
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on0 -
Ok so lets say survivors hitbox is lik 50-60 cm wide or whatever for the sake of the argument. The knives fly at like 55m/s, the survivor is let's say 10m ahead of you, so the knive arrives there after a little bit less of 0.2 seconds in 0.2 seconds you can move 80cm as survivor, so you can somewhat outmaneuver the middle of the your model so a knive doesn't hit you there. The point however is, if you only do micro dodges that are not at least 20-30 cm to each side then this won't do anything because the part of your hitbox is still at a point where it can be hit by the knives.
The thing is as survivor you don't really actively dodge, because the knives fly so fast and are so many that the only thing you are doing is making yourself harder to hit. But by doing those dodges to the side you are also slowing yourself down, like I said before if you only move a few centimeters to each side your hitbox is still where he aims, and those majors wiggles to each side slow you down. For this point it does not matter how small the knife hitbox is, if the hitbox of the survivor is still at the same point it will hit, who cares if you hit their pinky finger or the torso?
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If the survivor was 10m away, and in line of sight long enough for Trickster to land 8 knives, then Huntress could have easily landed 1 hatchet, and Deathslinger could have easily landed 1 harpoon shot.
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Against Huntress you can actually try to dodge the thing, her fully charged hatchet only moves at 40 m/s... Same goes for slinger, it is one projectile that you can focus on dodging... so what exactly are you even trying to point out here? Besides the point that Huntress has a far longer windup and needs to charge her hatchet so she can even reach the max speed, because otherwise it is rather easy to dodge...
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Are you seriously telling me it’s easy to dodge Huntress hatchets at 10m away, but it would be impossible to micro dodge Trickster knives? I’m done here. This conversation can’t be for real.
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If the Huntress hatchet is not fully charged it is way easier, yes, but against a fully charged hatchet you still have more of a chance than trying it compared to dodging several knives. I never said it was easy though? So no clue where you got that from...
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