Batteries-Included GUTTED in latest update
When i read 'Batteries Included' in the patch-notes i was thinking it was gonna get a mega-buff since as it stands it kinda sucks . . . turns out it is getting COMPLETELY gutted (no longer works when all generators are powered).
Here is how i would like the perk changed:
-When within 16m (currently 12m) of a completed generator, you get 5% haste. Haste lingers for 4s when out of range.
-When all generators are powered, this range is reduced from 16m to 8m and all generators are shown in a white aura. Haste now lingers for 8s when out of range.
If too complicated, just get rid of the last bullet-point, but overall i think this would be the best possible change.
Comments
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I feel like their change completely misses the point of what made Batteries Included appealing. To me, at least, the idea of using it in an Endgame build was what made it intriguing.
To my mind, if the fear that the perk's power in Endgame was too strong, the solution would've been similar to my idea for a solution to Made For This: The Haste granted by this perk does not stack with other Haste effects once the exit gates are powered.
If used w/ NOED, you'd get BI's 5%, but not NOED's 4%, there'd be no additional effect with things like Rapid Brutality or Game Afoot, and it would be overridden by things like Trapper's basekit or Legion's BFFs.
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Agreed
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I don't think disabling Batteries Included at the endgame is a good change. Having some perks grow stronger in power as the game progresses makes sense. It's like if they took away all of Fire Up's stacks when the last generator was completed.
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Honestly if stacking speed boosts during the Endgame for Killers were such a problem, Just Nerf NOED remove the speedboost.
bHVR should not remove the potential of a new perk because of a bad synergy with an old one.
NOED could use the nerf, it has a high userate and it does not need the speedboost anyway.
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This is really the only problem I have with the PTB changes. I think the perk was fine before. It was niche enough that if you were the kind of killer player that likes to focus on chases, and defend gens as little as possible, it was perfect for that. It also provided nice build variety for things such as endgame, or goofy haste stacking if you wanted to focus on going as fast as possible. I don't really think that the 'permanent' 5% haste during endgame (truly permanent on maps like midwich or the game, but much harder to use on maps such as lery's or red forest) was too strong, especially since survivors have similar access to such a perk.
But TLDR, I think Batteries Included was fine, and this patch would be perfect without the change to it. A Reversion would be nice, but I don't really see BHVR doing that in time.
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I think this nerf is just another example as to why Haste stacking should be removed for both sides.
I don’t personally mind that it got nerfed, I didn’t want another strong haste perk anyway (I’m kinda tired of them at this point), but I think it’s really beginning to show that stacking movement speed is an issue. I can understand if they didn’t want this perk stacking with NOED or even with BFFs Legion in endgame, but MFT + Hope is another example of speed stacking that isn’t balanced either. The only reason that will mostly go away now is because MFT is getting a nerf anyways - that combo will still be unfair if a survivor is lucky enough to get them active at the same time, it just won’t happen nearly as often anymore (and MFT’s pick rate will surely decrease as well).
My point is: Allowing Haste to stack for either side makes it more difficult to balance those perks than it should be and we now have an example where a perk ended up getting nerfed partially because of that. It’s like when Awakened Awareness got nerfed because of Starstruck Nurse, the 2 second linger wasn’t an issue on any other killer, but it was for her so it got removed when Nurse should’ve been getting nerfed instead.
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They should nerf NOED by removing the speed boost and keep the exposed.
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And BHVR sits there wondering why they have to offer 100% blood points to killer so often. They nerf anything remotely good for killer before it has a chance to breathe. But slept on MTF for years (and historically pretty much any survivor perk).
A nerf to a perk that wasn't already meh to begin with is now going to be completely worthless and it can be yours for only $9.99! You want to play Chucky don't you? Sucks he's already gonna have a perk that's dead on arrival.
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Bruh, I used Noed last time probably in 2021, but no. Hope is literally survivor's Noed. As many times I've seen Noed win the game for the killers, twice as many times I've seen Hope win it for the survivors.
I wish these two perks just no longer exist.
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Every chapter recently (with one exception) for killer has had at least one genuinely great perk, as will Chucky's. You're trying to make a pattern out of this one perk that was nerfed, when the majority of killer perks are either pretty good or mediocre in their PTB.
In the past few chapters, we've had: Friends 'Til The End, Ultimate Weapon, Forced Hesitation, Nowhere To Hide, and Terminus. That's just the great perks, let alone the just pretty good ones - and not counting how many good killers we've gotten recently, either.
Also, MFT hasn't even existed for one year, let alone being slept on for "years". I'll grant that was likely an exaggeration, but it's an exaggeration that harms your point rather than helps it.
The real conclusion that can be drawn from this situation is that not every perk's gonna be a winner. Some of them are just kinda mediocre, and while that can absolutely be its own fair criticism, it's not evidence of one-side bias nor is it as dramatic as you're making it out to be.
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>Forced Hesitation
Perks that works once per 4 matches? And even then just gives you one hit for perk slot? Yeah, i wonder why I haven't seen it since release? Looks like people just ignoring great perk.
Terminus is only good in endgame builds and not even on every killer.
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I didn't think it was good anyway.
It would be niche in some end game builds, but that's about it. It's just waste of bloodpoints now.
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Perks that work occasionally can still be very good depending on what their effect is. Unbreakable, for example, is an extremely powerful perk despite its activation not being frequent, same with Deliverance. I would consider Forced Hesitation one of those considering what it does when it does activate.
I don't personally use it that much because my builds tend to be pretty specifically crafted, but I'd also say it'd activate way more frequently than once every four matches. Survivors do tend to group up if they're playing altruistically, and that does happen to me pretty frequently.
Also, nitpicking one of my examples doesn't really mean anything regarding my overall point, lol. Downgrade it to just a pretty decent perk if you must, my point stands.
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I mean, you can't really compare survivor vs killers perks like this.
Survivors have total of 16 perks, it's not so bad to use 2-3 slots for situational perks that will carry game sometimes. Like unbreakable, or Reassurance.
This is not really same for killer, you have 4 perks. It's going to hurt you a lot to have perk that is not going to work most of the times and only rarely get any value.
Probably only perks that work for this are NOED/No way out. It's not really issue when they don't work, because it means you won before they could.
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Haste perks should not exist on either side period. The haste effect is incredibly overused in general and it goes beyond just perks. I don't know why the devs think random haste effects do anything except for frustrate the other side. It's what I personally feel is a bad design choice and I hope they move on from it soon. I feel like the game would be more enjoyable for everyone if everyone wasn't running around at different speeds at various points of the match.
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Onryo: no great perks (Floods is mediocre at his best and on couple of killers)
Dredge: no great perks (I dropped Darkness Reveal even on Huntress because of how inconsistent it is)
Wesker: no great perks (SA is mediocre)
Knight: NTH (Hubris in some meme builds)
Dull Merchant: no great perks (and awards for worst perks in the game)
Singu: no great perks (there is no even mediocre one)
Xeno: UW (probably will be nerfed to useless)
Chucky: FTTE
So 3 really good perks in 8 last chapters. I think it's far from "every chapter recently".
Perks that work occasionally can still be very good depending on what their effect is.Yeah, and this effect is one hit. Any situations where one hit could be as game changing as Unbreakable? Let's be optimistic and say it works even once per match (i tried a lot, it's not), any reason i'll take it instead of Coup de Grace?
Bold +rep under this
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On top of every killer you listed having a great perk except for Skull Merchant (my initial exception) and Dredge (who I considered too long ago to be fairly considered 'recent', but fair play, its perks are either bad or mediocre), that's still not my point.
The original statement was that the devs nerf anything even remotely good on killer before it has room to breathe. I pointed out two things: the most recent chapters have almost all had a great perk to play with, and, the remaining perks are either perfectly decent or were bad on their PTB.
This statement still holds true. Most perks that come out are usably good, and the ones that aren't weren't nerfed to be that way before they had room to breathe, they launched that way.
Take some of your examples. Knight is a great one: He has Nowhere To Hide, a genuinely great perk, and then he has two others; Face The Darkness, a quite strong perk in the right builds, and Hubris, a perk that is admittedly a little mediocre but kind of fun to make work in meme builds.
The same pattern can be seen elsewhere to varying degrees: Xeno has one pretty solid perk, Ultimate Weapon, even if its effectiveness is wildly overrated. But it also has two others; the perfectly usable and decent Alien Instinct, and the interestingly designed Rapid Brutality that serves to be a more niche pick. Wesker has one really good perk, Terminus, and he has two others; the perfectly usable and decent Awakened Awareness, and the more meme-ish perk Superior Anatomy. So on, and so forth.
Were any of these perks strong on the PTB and nerfed before they had a chance to breathe? No. Do any of them support the notion that killers are languishing with no good options while survivor perks are left broken for years? No. These are the arguments I was actually responding to, my statements did have a context that matters.
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It was already weak before. If anything, it needed a buff.
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BHVR moment.
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In this way i agree with you. But I didn't really trying argue with this part.
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why are you trying derail conversation on OP post? OP post is talking about Batteries included. Batteries included did not deserve any negative changes. the perk sucks because the perk is not consistent good chase perk. there is no reason for killer to patrol finished generators. The one place where perk could have some relevancy was end game because all gens become finished. The perk is not good in end game and it is not good during the game.
So when is the perk suppose to be useful? I genuinely do not understand the perk. the perk did not need nerf and it got nerf for no reason.
derailing his other two perks:
His friends till end perk is ok information but 20 second exposed too little. there is enough information perks in the game but there is barely any relevant exposed perks. here we get a potencial decent expose perk but it has such low numbers. why can't this perk have 45 second of exposed? Something in the meta that is not just 4 game delay perks or information perks.
Hex:two play is another rubbish perk. 1.5 second blinding? Like what the heck is the point? the blind lasts less time then pallet stun. with current numbers, the perk has to be worst hex perk in the game. I hope this perk gets like turbo buffed because this perk is almost more useless then like bottom tier perks like predator. I cannot imagine good version of this perk right now. that is how bad the perk is.
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I didn't. The person I responded to did. I was just answering them.
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Not sure why they keep adding killer perks that are designed to be so bad, no one would ever use them. Why even design them to begin with? I get they don't want 3 strong perks added, but if they sre just going to add a decent perk and 2 useless ones, why not cut to the chase and just add a single perk per side per chapter?
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You missed rapid brutality. Mixed with stbfl it's a great combo on chase builds. Mixed with bamboozle and another chase perk of your choice is a devastating chase build.
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This was my first thought also and I came here to post the same thing. It's exactly like if Fire Up deactivated. Which obviously wouldn't make any sense and neither does this change. 👎️
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Seems like BHVR has been a little spooked by the recent backlash of stacking haste perks after Hope+MFT.
If this end game loss needs to be kept, it might be a nice buff to have Batteries Included give you it's boost whilst in proximity of a powered generator or a non regressing/non zero'd generator.
This would mean it'd work nicely with Surge, as you can go for a more chase based style to protect gens, trying to secure your down while in range... but doesn't synergise with Pop, Eruption, Pain Res or Ruin, as thise perks stop you getting the boost.
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Can it still stack with machine learning and PWFY?
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No, I think this is a good change. People complained about Survivors getting stacked MFT+Hope, so why should Killers get haste stacks? They're already faster than Survivors at base.
Also, if they didn't deactivate Batteries Included for endgame, the effects would just be nerfed into the ground like every other perk they've nerfed.
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the effects would just be nerfed into the ground
So it was nerfed into the ground even before it reached live servers... Make sense
It's completely useless perk now. Perk that is supposed to be best late game, doesn't work in end game...
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Because theres a massive difference between a survivor being as fast as a killer , permanently, without any counterplay essentially guaranteeing a free escape, and the killer being able to catch you a second or so earlier IF the noed totem stays up... and IF hes close to a generator.
Killer is the power role, its the logical outcome for killer role to have perks 3-4x stronger than a similar survivor perk.
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