pain resonance should deactivate when 1 person is dead
Having 1 person dead is already the best slowdown one can get. Pain resonance should be like ruin that also deactivates when 1 person is dead.
Maybe pop too? i don't really think it's necessary for pop
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Ähhhhh.....
Not completely agree.
I think ruin was overnerfed. One of the nerfs would have been enough. I think the perfect nerf would have been: 200% regression remains the same, deactivates once a survivor is dead.
The way it is now is ok for some killers but it's definitely too weak for a hex perk.
Pain res is already limited by rng. There are games in which you can't use the perk consistently. If you make it not work if a survivor is dead, it's very much possible that the Perk does nothing all game. All just because of bad rng...
That's not good design.
The perk is fine right now.
Pop should not be nerfed. It an intention to go away from the hook. If you want more campers, nerf pop. If you want more chases, buff or keep pop.
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And all exhaustion perks should deactivate once a gen is done. Survivors don't need them anymore. Enough perks already deactivate...that would be a annoying problem and punish the killer for doing well
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no way
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Okay then gen speed should be slowed when all 4 Survivors are alive. Gen speeds are disgustingly fast even without any gen perks or toolboxes. Gen regression is required for killers. If anything Corrupt or Pain Res should be made basekit.
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No. Pain resonance is designed in a way not to synergize with tunneling. This suggestion would be valid for old pain res, but not with the reworked version.
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Pain Res already sucks with 4 uses on specific hooks. It needs buffed, not nerfed.
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Pain Rez is probably (one of) the strongest killer perks in the game, it regresses 100% progress max. if you compare it to its first version with 15% each hook you will need 7 hooks to make somewhat even, with how scourges are spread this was already not a given and in addition the time to make it to scourge was often not worth it... So you could argue that the perk is somewhat stronger now compared to its first version. I don't think it needs to be buffed at all...
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Any competent team can make PR useless. Just 99 a gen that's farthest away from the other gens. Killers typically avoid those very far away gens since up too much time to get there. That gen eats up all the PR tokens and protects the priority gens more centered in the map from it. Once all the tokens are eaten up, you just finish that gen.
On top of that, PR can literally do 0% per token. If the killer scourge hooks a survivor just after a gen is completed, there a pretty solid chance the next gen is below 25% meaning the value is reduced between 0-24% depending what the next gen is at. Due to this, the killer is actually discouraged from scourge hooking if a gen was completed recently...and if a scourge hook is the only nearby hook, then he has to risk permanently losing a token or slug the survivor and lose out on a hook state. That's right, this perk literally can discourage killers from hooking.
The perk as a whole is just bad unless survivors are oblivious to the killer using PR or otherwise don't know how to completely nullify its effectiveness. It's sort of like blood warden, simply wait until someone gets hooked before opening a gate or hopping into a locker before you go down so surge doesn't activate. It has a hard counter that's super easy to do as long as you don't have some solo queue player running straight to the gen finish it...but that's a survivor lack of experience issue, not a perk issue.
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How does 99% a gen make this perk useless?? Survivors had to 99% that gen first, therefore spending like 90 seconds of time for, sure it does not really help you defend a 3 gen, however it still eats up a lot of time like that. Also you would need to spend time going back every time after pain rez hit to prevent it from regressing to 0 and pushing it up to 99% again so it can guarantee to eat the next pain rez again? That whole argument makes no sense....
Yeah sure you can get 0% regression out of it if you are either unlucky or don't use it strategically, and I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, I think it is quite good if you need to think at least a little bit strategically and don't just basically kick every gen you see and what not, same with this perk.
If it does not work against good players, why do people in comp use it then? Make your point with different arguments if you want to undermine that statement, but I don't think that's easily doable...
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Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but by some bizarre reason you aren't or perhaps you're new...
The generators further out, typically far separated from the others on most maps, are generally risk free generators. Killers won't really patrol them often. By 99ing that, all the priority gens towards the center or the 3 gen area are completely safe from PR. Your team doesn't care if a risk free guaranteed generator gets hit or not. You can easily and quickly repair it. In fact, competitive teams generally refrain from even working on them because you want that extremely far away generator from the rest to be one of the last 3 gens. You essentially want that gen to act as a magnet for PR.
As for competition teams, keep in mind competitions aren't a reflection of the actual game. There are a load of rules that allow or do not allow certain things, so they have to abide by a ruleset that the game as a whole does not actually respect (for example, only one person can run deliverance). There's a reason they don't allow decoy generators. I don't know the reason why, but I assume because it dismantles PR as even being a useful perk (one of the very few surviving regression perks left in the game), or maybe they declared leaving gens topped off but not finishing them is unfair towards the killer info to prevent 4 gens from being done at once (killer playing one way since he thinks hes winning just to find out it goes from multiple gens to 1 gen left in a moment). I don't make the competition rules, ask them, not me.
Personally, I think competitions should allow literally everything to give a more accurate representation to game balance. The last thing we need is for the devs to balance the game around competition rules when those rules don't apply in actual gameplay. If competition rules declare that even 2 deliverances is broken, maybe BHVR should start questioning why. The fact is, there are a load of rules survivors have to abide by in competitions to make killer even playable. Otherwise, there'd be no competition.
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I'm neither sarcastic nor new, but you still waste time on that generator that eats all the pain rez, so sure it would be more beneficial if it worked on a generator you want to protect for your 3 gen strat if you are aiming for that, but overall it still slows the game down. So I don't really see much of a counter there... The overall time the survivors take to finish all gens gets increased and it also occupies a survivor to tab it again, especially if the generator is somewhat further away this is still better than it just hitting nothing. It is not ideal, but it does its job.
I have never heard of such a rule, but sure if you show me where the rules for a dbd tournament state that then ok I guess.
Allowing everything would just make comp really boring... Give survivors 4 Syringes and the most busted perks and you will really struggle to find a killer being able to get anything done that game, especially if you also enable them to play on the most bs maps out there, they need restriction because the game is simply not balanced for that level of play and for some reason BHVR still wants the RNG to sometimes dominate over skill...
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Regarding your competition rules, I'm not going to do your own research. I simply said I don't know why it's not allowed. Can only guess. Same reason I don't know why only one player can run deliverance.
Regarding your last paragraph, I entirely agree...and I think that SHOULD happen. Maybe we will start seeing some proper balance once BHVR and others realize just how broken the game is against killers. They see at the highest levels that killers staying strong, then we ended up getting perks added like MFT to the game for over half a year when BHVR doesn't realize killers are only stable because those competitions have survivors playing with one hand tied behind their back. I mean heck, they balance the game around a 60% kill rate. That means on average killers aren't winning, lol a 50% rate would be a 2k. A 75% rate would be a win with a 3k. It would require a 62.5% to generally have a 50% at a win as a killer, and a lot of killers are below even that 60% rate that's already 2.5% too low.
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A statement made without proof can be disregarded without proof, it is as easy as that... You are the one presenting something beneficial for your point, you need to display your evidence... I'm not putting work in to make your argumentative point working.
You would basically need to buff every killer to Blight/Nurse/Spirit/Chucky level of strenght... That would demolish the vast majority of players... I don't think that is a good idea for this game... Usually balance kind of tickles down through the ranks of players, but for this game it just does not work this way...
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I told you the rules are there. If you want an explanation of why, look it up yourself, yeesh. If you asked me why killers don't simply block survivors into a corner for the entire match, and I say it's against the rules, I'm not going to put together an essay for you nor go looking up the rules about it. If you seriously want to know why, look it up yourself.
And no, they need to buff up weaker killers and nerf the stronger killers like nurse or blight. I mean heck, they balance the game around a 60% kill rate. That means on average killers aren't winning, lol. A 50% rate would be a 2k. A 75% rate would be a win with a 3k. It would require a 62.5% to generally have a 50% at a win as a killer, and a lot of killers are below even that 60% rate that's already 2.5% too low.
I say let competitions play with all content allowed. Then we'll see that at higher play, killer just isn't feasible. That's a problem we should not ignore.
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well if you don't consider the fact that old pain res also gave info which made it really easy to line up another chase or deliver a pop which at the time gave 25% of total for an easy 40% regression every hook its not stronger than its first version overall just in its effective slowdown
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I didn't ask for the explanation why, I asked for the source of "the rules are there"... That's not what you are stating however... When you say the rules state this and I ask where... Then I am obviously not asking for the explanation of why they are stating a specific thing but just the source of where in the ruleset it says that specific thing.
I mean the reason why they are aiming for 60% is that getting 1 k is rather easy and a 4k can often be snatched because of the hatch mechanic... Which is why overall you won't be aiming for 50%.
If you nerf Nurse or Blight tournaments would become really onesided when you allow everything... I don't think it would even be close.
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Didn't that part get removed soon before even going into the current version we have? They basically tried several things out with that weird screaming interaction and DMS and what not...
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You are correct, as I recall using surveillance to "get back" the information as to what gen got hit by PR.
And that's what I'm saying about tournaments...allow everything. Make it painfully apparent just how one sided this game is. Maybe we will finally start getting some real balance changes. If we allow everything (like how all public matches are) and admit that doing so would make the game extremely one sided...THAT IS A PROBLEM. The base game is extremely one sided. That should be addressed. Nurse and blight need to be dropped down a few notches, and the weaker killers need some love. Survivors are the true power role in this game right now.
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It is already completely obvious that this is how it is, but nobody wants to watch comp with all these busted things... Besides it already having a rather small audience...
This however does not solve any of the problems that revolve around different skill levels of players and how to properly solve them... Like how a killer like trapper can demolish weak players but struggles against better ones, how do you make him better against better players without making him even stronger against weaker ones?
It is not like people don't already know that, it is just that basically nobody knows how to solve this... the problem is that survivors probably only become the power role from a certain point of skill onwards, which barely anyone reaches soooooo...
I mean the most obvious and easy to do thing is remove busted addons and such but other than that...
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Deadlock targets the highest progress generator. If a generator is on 99%, it will always hit that gen. Therefore gens being worked on actively dont get slowed down. Then after completing 4 other gens you can go back and finish the remaining 1% progress, bypassing deadlock entirely.
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I'd say you are spot on in that assessment. It would require reconsidering a lot on balance. The big problem is that the game is killer sided at low mmr, decently balanced at mid mmr, and survivor sided at high mmr.
I know no one would want to watch competitions, but that is the point. Sometimes you gotta put fire under the designers' to realize there's a problem. What's the solution? Well it would help if the designers would stop constantly making weaker killers weaker while leaving stronger killers untouched (ie MFT even being THOUGHT was remotely acceptable. It demolishes weak m1 killers and does nothing vs blight or nurse, for example).
Perhaps we should consider a survivor handicap at low mmr that gets removed once you reach mid mmr. This protects new players, but once you have experience under your belt, the training wheels go away. Could be faster gen repairs - I'm not certain. The point is, let's give newer survivor players a boost to make up for their lack of experience, and since they have some "get stomped" protection, we can start balancing the game somewhere between mid to high mmr. That way, at the highest levels, killers are actually viable and stand a chance as-is. Since low mmr survivors would get a boost, it would help them deal with weaker killers getting stronger.
Now that I think about it, that's EXACTLY what competitions do...at high level, they give killers a boost to make them playable (lots of survivor rules that hurt survivors). If we did the same for low mmr survivors, then that whole section is covered in balance. This would leave just mid to high balance. With weaker killer buffs and stronger killer nerfs, this would generally balance the game better where high competition would no longer need the "get stomped" protection. I mean, we'd start seeing more than just nurse and blight every match in competitions, too. That would make watching competitions a lot more interesting in itself.
TLDR; put a separate balancing factor for low mmr. Balance the rest of the game halfway between mid and high mmr. At extreme mmr, killers would at least be competitive even if they are underpowered a bit. With weaker killers being buffed, we'd see them more often even in competitions...and since lower mmr would get survivor buffs, they can still manage against the weaker killers that got buffed in the process.
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Exactly. Same concept for PR. Have them hit a gen you could not care less about getting damaged...the one that is safe to work on. It prevents PR and Deadlock from ever having an effect on generators that are priority and match defining ie one of the 3 gens in a 3 gen. This allows survivors to power through priority gens much more easily and quickly.
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you said first version and it lasted 10.5 months with the notification
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You don't really bypass the perk if you put 90 seconds into a generator just so it eats Deadlock all the time... Besides the point where you need to constantly check on it so the killer does not pop it...
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There is no way they will ever do that...
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The first version meaning 15 % regression on every scourge hook... I only ever talked about the regression aspect of the perk and it being stronger possibly... They constantly change the screaming part to it so I have no clue how many versions it would be if we take that into account.
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That's BHVR for ya - same team that thought MFT was an amazing idea to add, so amazing that they should ignore the mass negative feedback it got during the ptb.
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The screaming part was only gone for 2 weeks 6.1.0 to 6.1.2 but it lost the notification. Yes in a vacuum if you only look at the slowdown the slowdown part might be stronger for general gameplay. But if you tunnel someone out 15% every hook on them is 100% stronger than the 25% you would get with the current version so in terms of raw power the old one is better because it better complimented one of the stronger playstyles.
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If you tunnel someone out and get lucky that the scourge hook is actually around and the survivor didn't go somewhere with none around right? This relies on a lot of "if's" my dude...
I don't know about the scream stuff, I think there was also a time when it was not supposed to interact that way, but they messed it up or what not? I don't remember exactly...
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Sure you do, deadlock gets 0 slowdown if it doesnt block any gens being worked on. And if the killer does pop or pain res it etc etc that doesnt mean deadlock is getting any value.
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Dude you wasted 90 seconds on a random generator, just so deadlock only effects that one... How on earth is this not considered slowdown???
And on a side note... So the killers sees that the gen that gets deadlocked is always the same, you really think he is not going to notice and do something about this?
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- Its not a waste of time at all because you just go back and pop that generator after finishing the others. 0.99 + 0.1 =/= 2.
- Yeah hes going to go over there and kick it. Not like it matters since without pgtw the regression will take eternity to be meaningful. Plus if its happened more than once you've already save 60s of time which is outstanding. Even one deadlock denial is huge.
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It's only a waste if you never bother finishing it. That 99% has to get done sooner or later. Using the decoy strat, you still have that 90% done plus deadlock/PR never touches any gens that matter. Also a killer can't pop a regressing gen, but let's say a survivor touched the gen to get it back to 99, if a killer pops it, then that's yet another priority gen that was protected from pop.
Even if you throw all of that out, that 99% repair would have to get done somewhere. Sure. If PR hits it, you would need to top it back off to recover that 25%, but if you didn't do a decoy gen, you would be doing that 25% somewhere else...one of the important gens.
No matter how you spin it, a decoy gen hard counters PR and Deadlock. As for pop, a killer would have been better off popping a priority gen than a generator that's extremely far away from the rest of the gens. It would actually hurt the killer to waste a pop on a decoy gen.
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You are however spending ressources on checking if the gen is getting regressed and still 99% every, so if you have it 99% and he heads over there with pop you gonna give him max value out of it... And since pop is quite common nowadays this will eventually happen if people use this as a common strategy.
Besides the point where it could still get hit by pain rez... And you would have to do it all over again... Just the time you would spend to regularly check if it is regressing or not...
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So you are all just ignoring all the time you use on the decoy gen that gives the killer a longer game, therefore delaying it, therefore still being effective game delay.
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You're ignoring that the gen has to be completed anyway. If you get it too 99%, that's not a delay, that's you finishing 99% of that objective which has to get done anyway. If PR hits, it's going to hit an objective. A decoy just means it doesn't hurt a difficult objective and instead an easy objective (one where the killer won't check often since it's so far out of the way).
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By what definition does the perk not get value then? It still delays the game? Not as effective, but it does, it let's the killer know about the decoy giving him the option to take care of, therefore prolonging the objective... Sure if you are trying to hold a 3 Gen the perk won't do much for you, but otherwise it gives you info about that 99 Gen perhaps being able to apply pop if it is not too far out of the way... But if you want to 3 Gen you are not running those perks anyway... You would run other perks if that is your goal from the start. So if you are not aiming for a 3 Gen you will get reduced value but still something... What I would have accepted as a counter for deadlock btw is just stacking on gens... Because then it just locks one random Gen and you can go for the next one, sure reduced efficiency potential to have all 3 survivors clumped up and what not but since in your scenario we have a coordinated team anyway I don't see much of an issue with leading the killer away and having a designated chaser and what not.
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We can't really simplify it more than we already have. The value of deadlock/PR never affecting any gens that are risky to repair is huge.
If deadlock affects a gen no one is repairing, it literally has zero effect against the survivors.
If PR hits a generator, that damage dealt must be repaired on some gen somewhere. However, survivors have the power that it's forced onto a low to no risk generator so it's not remotely a problem.
Killer perks bring in risks to survivors. Using a decoy gen for those perks completely eliminates that risk turning the perks entirely moot.
The decoy gen would need to get repaired regardless to end the match, so spending time repairing it isn't any time loss - it's 100% time towards the objective.
Imagine playing killer on Ormand, and none of your perks ever affect the center gen in the ski resort. It keeps affecting a gen waaaaaaaaaaaay on the corner that if you ever head that direction, you're guaranteed to lose the center gen if not 2 gens in the process. You're getting your ass handed to you.
If you don't get this basic concept at this point, I don't think you ever will without just trying it yourself with an swf (I recommend swf to prevent a solo queue from ruining the plan).
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No lol
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Dude you realise posting one word answers is completely useless? So how about you give a reason at least... anything that gives something to the debate is fine... But otherwise your post is as useless as it could be.
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I stand by what i said... NO.
But while we are at it, should we not give survivors a free "I win" button??
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