My Onryo rework change wishlist
Remove most of the rework changes. The following being the most important:
- Remove the map-wide global condemn gain upon Projection as it leads to boring teleport spam gameplay and punishes soloq. It also creates the side effect of survivors frequently running tapes and turning off her TVs which reduces her mobility.
- Remove the 10seconds cool-down on teleports that create the dreaded double cool-down on her power.
- Revert the changes to how tapes work. Tapes should become cursed tapes again and no longer act as a shield to protect survivors. They should get ticking condemn like they used to and should shy away from touching her TVs expect in situations where they need to deny her power or remove condemn. Tapes should not block any form of condemn build up.
- Condemn should be gained how it used to be by being within a certain radius of a TV when Onryo teleports to it.
These are important quality of life changes that I believe will make her a more balanced and well rounded killer.
- Condemn should get some sort of buff such as either 1.5-2 stacks when she emerges from a TV within 16 meters or 1 stack when within 20-24 meters.
- Keep Ring Drawing nerf to reduce unfun slugging builds.
- Fully restore old Reiko's Watch add-on. Or leave the add-on the same while taking the previously nerfed portion and making it basekit.
- Keep the shorter TV cool-downs so her teleport power doesn't feel weak when not running Iri-tape. Added benefit of making her less add-on reliant in higher MMRs.
- Reinstate the old Iri-tape add-on but make part of it basekit. Nerf the rest of the add-on by having it reduce condemn build up upon Projection as compensation for having strong map presence by having TVs pretty much always on.
Perhaps controversial changes I would like to see.
- Change the Iri-Remote Control add-on so that survivors who are fully condemned become exposed until they remove condemn. If not restoring the old Iri-tape then use Iri-tape for this effect and keep the current reworked effect on the Iri-Remote Conrol add-on.
- Distorted Photo or some other add-on which removes her lullaby while demanifested.
- Increase the ranges of Rickety Pinwheel and Sea-Soaked Cloth add-ons to 12 meters or make them active regardless of whether a TV is turned on or not.
- Ideally make half of the fully restored Reiko's Watch basekit and leave the other half within the add-on as a QoL change.
TLDR:
These changes should result in making a variety of builds viable on her again and not make her so add-on reliant. The changes will encourage more fun and engaging gameplay for both sides as well. This is largely due to the interaction between survivor and killer being centered around her teleporting to TVs near survivors again compared to her current rework where she can practically teleport spam and ignore survivors until one of them is fully condemned.
People who enjoy her map mobility can play her as a mobility killer with Iri-tape even if sacrificing some condemn build up.
People who enjoy condemn builds can still run them but the changes will make players have to work for it again and will feel a lot more rewarding. Slugging synergy is gone with the Ring Drawing nerf but the proximity buffs to condemn should make up for it and make condemn still a viable strategy, while not making it toxic and unhealthy for the game.
People who enjoy her stealth aspects or more standard builds will be able to do so with a fully restored Reiko's Watch and ways to improve her stealth with add-ons or basekit changes. They will also have better mobility than Onryo pre-rework without Iri-tape due to the reduced TV cool-downs providing a better QoL when playing her compared to before.
Comments
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And what prevents the same annoying condemn playstyle people always played with her in this particular version of sadako? As far as I know that was the reason she got reworked the first time...
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Keeping the Ring Drawing nerf is what gets rid of the annoying condemn playstyle. The biggest issue with Onryo is when her kit encourages slugging. This is because condemn allows her to win without ever hooking anyone so slugging becomes an easy sort of slowdown under such circumstances.
As long as Onryo has condemn as a mechanic, there will be condemn playstyles. If you mean annoying condemn playstyles as in try to get condemn kills, then we will have to agree to disagree since I consider it a core part of her kit. I just want condemn to take skill again and be rewarding for the skill. Going back to a proximity based system without the Ring Drawing add-on adding condemn upon recovering teammates would help a lot towards this end.
My suggested changes would allow condemn playstyles to still exist but not be horribly oppressive to soloq like they are currently, or encourage the old slugging of the pre-rework era with Ring Drawing. I will concede though that maybe adding a condemn stack upon hooking might not be a bad idea to further encourage hooking over slugging.
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Even with those changes you could still focus on one guy as soon as he gets a tape, figure out where he needs to put it and prevent him from ever doing so, which is always a horrible experience to go against I don't think it is a good gameplay mechanic at all.
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Before update, the only things she was needed were Iri tape basekit, Newspaper basekit, remove lullaby and Drawing basekit + triggering on healing progress, not health state. That's it. I don't know why they tried the whole overhaul, that, I'm afraid, they'll nerf back. Don't harass Sadako!
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There was a lot of counterplay involved in that and good teammates could get a safe tape drop off. It had a lot better and more interesting counterplay than the current rework for sure.
If they kept condemn (which the should and will), they will almost certainly keep tapes as a mechanic to remove condemn. As long as there are tapes there will be ways for Onryo players to try and interrupt their tape drop offs. That is the meaning of curse tapes. You either deal with it in time or die. In my opinion the old system of tapes was far superior, more interactive, and more balanced overall than how they function in the rework.
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I found the whole system boring in both versions because either it had no impact at all or the killer just forced you into the condemned playstyle which was neither fun nor interacting...
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Iri-tape basekit might be too strong but I would like to see it comes back or at least part of it be made basekit. Newspaper either fully or partially basekit would be great. Lullaby should stay imo but their should be an add-on to modify its range or remove it.
I really hope they do her right this time and just give minor but noticeable buffs to her old kit without completely changing how her old kit played. She was so close to being perfect pre-rework in terms of gameplay as well as being accurate to the lore. A few QoL changes to her old kit like the ones I suggested would do wonders for her and go a long way.
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These are pretty good suggestions, I especially like the Iri Remote one. Both pre and post rework Sadako's Iri Remote was... Not useful.
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The old Remote Control add-on was horrible for an Iri but I actually like the current Remote Control. It no longer has the carrying tape requirement so it can actually provide some really good info with its aura reading. I think a slight range increase to like 16 meters would be nice though. I really hope they either keep it as is or improve upon it. Going back to the old Remote Control would just be so unfortunate.
I'm also concerned about what they have in store for the Iri-tape add-on. Its current form should definitely go back to being basekit. If they don't restore the old Iri-tape though they have to keep the reduced TV cool-down times and remove the 10sec cool-down between teleports. Otherwise her mobility will still suffer and not have the condemn slowdown to make up for it.
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I really hope the old one with no cooldows comes back, because that was why I played her and loved her.
My ideas: (I focus on her old version)
Tvs
- Very short to no cooldowns so people if they want to take your ability away to be everywhere instantly they have to take a tape
- TVs also have a area around them where you get condemned (when on) just by being close and looking at the clip on the Tv you get more passive condemned
Tp
- no 10s cooldown, instead only the time you need to change the mode to allow her fast mobility again, which was the coolest thing
- speed boost after crawling out of the tv
- looking around while crawling out of an tv to have a better orientation in chase
- the radius close to the tvs which give you condemned gets increased and splitted in three parts. First radius around the TVs from before her rework 0,5 stacks, in the radius before her rework 1 stack and close to the TVs 2 stacks. So that you would be rewarded to chase survivors into TVs.
- condemned should be applied as you are crawling out of the tv instead of after you crawled out of the tv
- all areas (12-16) around TVs give 1 stack condemned (maybe only as addon)
Demanifast/Manifast
- Faster switch between both forms
- more lagging and glitching around, so that survivors have a harder time tracking you
- pallet immunity like now
- chase count as chases in demanifast
- The demanifast glitching should stay longer after switching
- I would also like her terror radius to return in demanifasted mode so people would be scared and run into me, because they don‘t know from where I come. As I started playing against her I did that quite often. I heard the terror radius, then I started to run and she just appeared out of nowhere in front of me.
Tapes
- I would want the tapes to be like before the rework, because in the current form I don‘t like that people switch off TVs only to counter condemned. If it was willingly it would be fine, but so I hate it.
- With short-no TV cooldown you have to pick one up, otherwise she can tp around all the time. So the tv shuts down for 50-70s after taking one.
- Also with the tapes you don‘t get the passive condemned from being close to the Tv. Instead the tape gives you condemned by holding it.
- After putting it back in the tv you lose stacks of condemned
- you only have one tv to put the tape like before
She shouldn’t have her lullaby shown in the visual heartbeat. Maybe it‘s only me, but I can hear and don‘t hear her lullaby and so I see it in the visuel heartbeat -> ah there is something and know she is there.
I copied and changed some parts from my former post.
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I can‘t really remember her addons except of the iri one, which rested TVs and it was great.
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I really like your suggestions a lot as well. I really hope BHVR will consider these when they decide to rework her.
I do wonder how she would play with a long TV cooldown when survivors take tapes but virtually no cooldown when she Projects to them herself. I am a big fan of them returning tapes to how they used to work in general.
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Oddly enough I found more value in the Distorted Photo than the Remote. Distorted Photo can work as a slightly weaker I'm All Ears in tiles if you time it right and when survivors would turn to look at you during mindgames and loops.
And I agree with your assessment of the Iri Tape. I don't really run it anymore because I was a bigger fan of pre-rework tape for my style of Deadmans/VCR so the new one just kind of feels either way too overbearing on the survivors who in my experience already ignore tapes for the most part, or clashes with my gen block/chase style. That said, current tape should be basekit as it was pre-rework with assigning a TV to a tape.
My only big complaint about old Sadako was how easy it was to avoid condemned for the most part and ignore TVs and tapes, while full condemned wasn't too much of a problem unless the Sadako runs STBFL since you can cleanse it in their face in most scenarios. That said, most of these suggestions I've seen kind of remedy that with extending condemned stack radius, applying it on teleport and not after the animations, or just weakening the widespread condemned while strengthening it the closer to a TV a survivor is when you teleport. All good suggestions and I hope BHVR doesn't drop the ball with it.
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lol no thanks
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