Are SWF a problem or is it all an illusion?

You haven't seen me after finding a new hitbox they messed up. I start speaking in tongues and there is definitely a bit of hate. Mostly self hatred because I keep playing Billy even when the game seems to not approve in the slightest. 😜

Saying that this is due to communication is wrong. It is because an SWF can filter out bad players. The game is a 4v1, so you have to rely on 3 other players as Survivor. And it is more likely that you can rely on the other players, when you play in an SWF with them (at least if all of them are decent).

You can put the same good players together with and without comms and you would have almost the same results. And you can also put the same 4 bad players together with and without comms and also would have the same results.

Comms dont suddenly make bad players good. There are certain areas which make Comms really useful, you name a few. However, a good player would not really need those in the first place. E.g. if I run towards a teammate with an EMP, if they are good, they dont need me saying that they should use it while I am nearby so that I get rid of the Pod.

And while Comms make it possible that I can a bad player this, who might then realize that it would be a good play, I think the impact of comms is really not as big as people like to claim it to be.

(E.g. I play only in a 2 man-SWF. Sometimes a friend of my SWF-Mate joins, they are a streamer and so they are not on Comms with us. However, this person is a really good player, so we win more games with simply him being around in our games, even if we dont communicate)

Both. It is a problem, but players often see it even when it's not there.

SWF have the inherent advantage of being willing to coordinate, and the facility to voice chat helps. But sometimes solo survivors with decent gamesense and a lucky pair up of likeminded players can perform almost the same. So yes it's a balance problem, but it's a little overblown as often killers simply accuse well-coordinated teams of being SWF.

It can't really be fixed, because it's not a problem of game design, it's an inequality of player attitudes and behaviours, and SWF isn't synonymous with coordination, solos can, rarely, emulate it to a degree, and not all SWFs perform with that level of coordination.

Adding voice chat won't make random solo survivors suddenly willing to coordinate, and penalising SWF will unfairly hinder uncoordinated friend groups.

Best you can do is provide info to survivors that is comparable but also superfluous to voice chat.

This comment should be at the top of the chain. You're one hundred percent, a thousand percent correct.

The problem is not Swf by itself, but the potential it can be achieved by 4 coordinated survivors, which is rarely achieved in soloQ.

There is no simple solution to Swf power. I just wish that instead of buffing survivors or nerfing high tier killers, they buff SoloQ info (maybe basekit Bond and Kindred, perks in lobby, etc) and then buff low tier killers.

Trying to lower the power of SWF can harm people who play casually with friends and are not interested in sweating

It's probably a problem. It has been 7 years and they still don't show who queued as SWF in the post game lobby. Why hide it if it's not a problem?

Because they probably see all the toxicity and blame that gets thrown around.

You lost to a team? Must've been a 4-man meta godsquad SWF at top mmr.

SWF is just a different level; talking about players who aren't new or just terrible at the game, rather players that know even the basics of their perks and maps. Just because you're playing and chilling with your friends doesn't mean you aren't capable of playing well, or that the killer isn't sweating for that down.

This.

For some players, it is far easier to blame the "Depip Squad 4 man Rank 1 SWF group" than to understand they could've done something different during the trial.

Thank you.

So the difference between solo and swf is dependent on the skill of the group and the number of players in the group?

Good to know.

As an aside, I would like to see the "real" K/E ratio for Solo vs SWF INCLUDING DC's.

Whether we like it or not, they are a real part of the game and I think one of the less spoken of benefits of SWF is less DC's.

Having some recent official stats would be nice to establish whether swf is an issue or not, otherwise we’re just arguing past each other at this point.

I keep seeing comments that Swf don’t make up a huge chunk of the population and the escape rates don’t vary that much from Solo Queue.

That would mean if the overall Survivor escape rate is in a satisfactory spot/close to satisfactory currently, either:

1) Swf escape rate is high enough to cover the low Solo Queue Escape rate

2) Swf escape rate is slightly higher, but there are more people playing swf than the community thinks, which also covers the solo queue low escape rate

3) Swf escape rate and percentage is insignificant in boosting up overall escape rate, Solo Queue despite the experience complaints has a decent escape rate.

There cannot be a situation whereby Solo Queue has low escape rate and Swf does not have substantial numbers to bring up the escape rate, devs would have pushed for a 6.1.0 for Survivors if that was the case considering Survivors make up the larger portion of the playerbase

So either SWF actually matters in bringing up the kill rate or Solo Queue is actually in a decent spot, but all the Solo Queue experiences of teammates suiciding on hook or doing chests paint a different picture.

Since there’s no recent numbers to rely on, this is the conclusion I can come up with.

e: turns out I was misremembering! See my next post (mods could delete this one if they wanted, I don't see a way for me to do it).

It's all good. If you look at the post Peanits was replying to, it was someone else thinking it was an average escape of 15% - that info gets passed around alot, so it's not just you.