New MMR Makes Playing Killer Unbearable
Title. I have almost 2k hours in this game and my experience over the past couple of weeks has driven me very close to quitting.
I'm a killer main, and until recently won around 80-90% of my games, despite the fact the game (and devs) naturally favors survivors.
However as of recent, I'm running into EXTREMELY sweaty matches every single game. The survivors I'm going up against are P100 squads almost every single time I load into a lobby, and they play like literal gods every match. I'm talking the best of the best survivors who are ridiculously good at the game, all have exactly the perks they need when they need them, guess correctly on every single mindgame, make the correct macro decisions depending upon what my killer can do, etc.
It's just very frustrating to go from winning a nice amount of games and sometimes going up against a sweaty squad to going against a sweaty squad every single game. Either I get a 2-3k after a long slog of a match or I can't even hook anyone. That is the variety I get now as a killer.
The reasons this is not fair are obvious. For one, the game is extremely survivor sided. Nobody would dare argue against something as obvious as that. However, more importantly, and perhaps less obviously, it feels MUCH worse to lose as killer than it does as survivor. As survivor you only share 1/4 of the blame for losing, and so can easily deflect and mentally relax. Just go next. On top of this, survivor gameplay is much more relaxed and less skill-oriented. 3/4 of the game will usually be spent holding m1 or w. Meanwhile killers have to mindgame and macro to perfection from the start of the game to the end of the game at high MMR. If you lose, you have to watch 4 people gang up on you, so the pressure is higher. You were more involved in the gameplay from the start, and only have yourself to blame for losing, so it feels much worse. However, this isn't logical. The game is to blame for a large amount of losses in high MMR, since it's mathematically impossible for killers to win vs perfect survivors. It's, as they say, asymmetrical.
MMR is punishing Killers much harder than it is survivors. If you're unlucky like me, you're going to find sweat lords every match because the cap has been raised, meaning you won't be matched vs casuals any more.
I can no longer run my fun anti-heal loadouts because the survivors just bash gens and don't heal, running early with w as soon as they hear my TR. I can't run my fun chase builds because gens are so fast that no gen defense means a loss.
This is the worst experience I've had in DBD for years, and it's sadenning to see that BHVR plans only to make killers have an even harder time in future when we're already the underdogs.
Please, for the love of everything, save this game for me. Just let it be a party game and put me vs every kind of player. I want to mess around with newbies sometimes; I want to have some tough battles sometimes; I want to get stomped by perfect survivors sometimes. I don't want to get stomped 70% of the time, and struggle to barely draw the match the other 30%.
Whenever I play survivor I run the killer ungodly amounts of time with ease and escape pretty much whenever I want to if I try. Survivor is pathetically easy anyway, and you somehow made it even easier. Killer is the harder role, so if anything they should have a natural advantage.
Fix your game before you lose all your killer mains and survivors have nobody left to tbag.
Comments
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Pretty strange post.
I havent played killer much in the last few weeks, but the mmr wasnt very bad and meta wise the game is a decent state, all tho you often have to camp/tunnel/slug to win. I think the games balanced around that.
You dont like playing vs sweats and having a low or 50% winrate but noobier survivors also dont like playing vs sweats and never or very rarely escape.
People dont like losing in general.
Survivor at high lvl takes skill just like killer all tho i think killer is overall more skillful.
The game is survivor sided (not extremely) but thats only really a noticeable problem at the highest levels of play.
You shouldnt encounter those players in your normal matches frequently.
The part where you said you run the killer ungodly amount of time with ease every chase and escape whenever you want seems unlikely to me.
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What's not fair about being put against higher skilled opponents? You claim to have an 80-90% winrate, so you should be facing these teams.
I think you just need to accept that you're going to lose some games.
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You clearly didn't read my post. I quote: "I want to get stomped by perfect survivors sometimes." Just not most of the time.
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You also ignored half my post. I direct your attention to the fact that losing feels worse on killer than it does on survivor. Escaping on survivor is like a nice bonus, but anyone with sense goes in with the goal of interacting with the killer as much as possible.
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I did read your post and it just comes off as being upset you can't win 90% of your games anymore. Which is fair, because if you were able to maintain a 90% win rate then you were more than likely facing opponents under your skill level too often.
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Reduce your time spent on Killer or switch to Survivor.
Devs aren’t going to buff Killers because of a forum post. When survivor queue times become 10 mins even with Killer incentives, the devs will be forced to improve the Killer experience because this affects the Survivor experience by proxy.
People can scream at you for slugging, camping or tunneling, but they can’t say anything if you refuse to play Killer
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something doesn't add-up. If your winning 80-90% of the matches, your among best killer players. Your suppose to be playing against the best players because your one of the best killer players.
Just let it be a party game and put me vs every kind of player. I want to mess around with newbies sometimes; I want to have some tough battles sometimes; I want to get stomped by perfect survivors sometimes. I don't want to get stomped 70% of the time, and struggle to barely draw the match the other 30%.
This whole aspect makes 0 sense with the rest of your post. your entire post is complaining about so called perfect survivors stomping you. Your 80-90% win-rate does not correlate with you losing 70% of the time and drawing 30% of the time. These two numbers don't add up. your clearly a competitive player that wants to win every game but you lack skills to do so. there is no reason for BVHR to change the MMR system for your lack of inability to play the game.
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Mmr is made to give you sweatier and sweatier matches until you reach the hight of your skill and win half and lose half. It's designed in such a way that if you play to win you are going to have to sweat for it. If someone doesn't want to sweat then this isn't the game for them. It sucks for some people but that's what mmr does. It turns a party game into a competitive game.
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I largely find the new MMR to be strictly worse also, to the point I've hard dropped playing solo (Surv/Killer) except to farm the winter tomes. I have nearly the exact same winrate (win most Killer matches, lose [, or rather die in] most soloq Survivor matches), but I'm not having fun while doing it anymore.
I don't sweat until I am sweat upon, and since more people are queueing up intending to sweat, I run into nothing but sweat on both sides. I don't find back to back Nurse/Blight games enjoyable. I don't find full lobbies of Syringes enjoyable. Sadly that has been the dominant experience for me since they made the change.
Since I spent the auric cells on this season's pass, I'll probably finish it out, but I have no intention of getting the next one. I probably won't even return until my friends start playing again, and they mostly stopped 3-6 months ago.
You can't just bring fun perks to have a remotely decent time. The MMR makes matches so sweaty now that the meta is 'enforced' as a means to even be able to play the game.
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The way something "comes off" is completely irrelevant to the content it actually contains.
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No. You missed the point. This game is asymmetrical. Unbalanced. It's a party game. If you win often on Killer, that's how it should be, because losing feels 4x worse. Please for the love of everything actually read my post before responding.
It seems you're incapable of basic reading skills, which makes discussion with you very difficult. I said I won 80-80% of my games "until recently", however NOW, I lose 70% of the time due to the new MMR making it much more likely to match vs comp survivors every single game if you're unlucky. I'm at MMR cap, so I get P100 swfs in most of my games, and it simply isn't fun in what's supposed to be a casual party asym game.
They're ridiculously skilled at the game, and I'm thrown in with them after I come home from a 12 hour work shift and just want to play some lucky dip games. But dbd is no longer a lucky dip due to MMR. It's exciting not knowing when you'll be put against a god squad or some absolute cutie pie newbie survivors. Having the god squads every once in a while makes it less frustrating and more impressive and inspiring. But having the god squad every single game? Soul-destroying. It really isn't complicated.
I implore you to go back and read my post more carefully this time.
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The reasons this is not fair are obvious. For one, the game is extremely survivor sided. Nobody would dare argue against something as obvious as that.
I dare, and instead of you, i back it up with facts.
- Survivors loose in 60% of their games, while killer win 60% of their games. Its a fact and undenyable tho to sheer numbers and simple math.
- Survivor win streaks are super low compared to killer. We are talking here about 38 escapes in a row on survivor vs 1000+ wins on certaint killers. Dont even try to deny it, i swear i won't shy away posting the pig winstreak video again 😘
- Even in comp, killer come out on top with a higher average on killrates. I know i know, this is a very hot topic and this is debateable since both sides have restrictions, but nevertheless it is true.
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yes, it means you were facing opponent far weaker then yourself when your win-rate was 80%. Now your playing against survivors within your skill-level. as result, you need get better to have the same win-rate as before. I do not see anything wrong with this.
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A killer should not automatically win the majority of his games because he is the killer. This is a game played by 5 people each round, so not only one person is entiteled to have fun. The better player / the better side should win.
As many have mentioned, when you loose now 70% of your games and draw 20%, then you a) might not be good enough or b) you have a loosing streak.
Lets hope MMR brings you to the level you belong, which i doubt because the system is not the greatest tbh.
After all criticizing MMR would be the only valid point you could make.
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Your numbers are extremely dishonest. You seem to have forgotten that survivors are a team of 4. Winning on survivor means having 3+ members of your team escape, because you are a TEAM. If you run the Killer for 5 gens and get facecamped, you didn't lose. You played like a beast and got your 3 mates out. You won.
Your own personal escape is irrelevant. Therefore, you're comparing apples to oranges when comparing escape streaks with killer winstreaks. This one crux makes everything you just said completely redundant. Try again.
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If you see nothing wrong with this, then you clearly didn't read my post.
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No, they should not "automatically win", but they should be able to when of equal or greater skill than their opponents.
Criticising MMR is EXACTLY what I've been doing the entire time. Please for the love of everything actually read the post with more than just your eyes.
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"despite the fact the game (and devs) naturally favors survivors"
I just had to read that line to know that this was going to be a rant. Glad you put it near the start so I could skip the rest of the essay.
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https://nightlight.gg/killers/viewer?sort=pick&shown=pick%7Ckill%7Cdist&start_days=28
You can add 5% to actually have the realistic number we are right now. It got already confirmed by the devs and people who can calcublate 2+2 that the winrate according to killrate matches. I am sure you can do the math aswell.
I mean it does not really matter if we go for personal escape streaks or not. The record of 3/4 man out is 200, done by one of the best teams in the world, while on the other hand, random non-comp players delete survivors on Ghostface or Pig 200+ times. You know, killer you probably have yourself on your personal tier list under the letter F.
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"until recently won around 80-90% of my games, despite the fact the game (and devs) naturally favors survivors"
The game and the devs "favor survivors" yet you still win %90 of your games... It's as if the favorism isn't working or it doesn't exist... How interesting.
For real though I can't believe how you wrote that sentence and didn't stop to think how contradictory it is within itself.
Forums never disappoint me.
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To funny, Otz has just released a video about those "dishonest numbers".
The game is so unfair, Survivors are so powerful.
lol
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I strongly disagree with OP. I think the MMR changes have made playing killer much more fun. All the matches for me have been a lot better recently. The games have been much closer, more competitive and more enjoyable. The amount of games where I get paired against survivors clearly outside my level have gone down a lot which is great. There is nothing enjoyable about destroying a team in a pub match at 5 gens left.
it seems a lot of killers simply love to play sweaty as possible but hate to actually go against sweaty survivors in return. If you played to win and play well, then its only natural you should go against people at your skill level who aim to do the same. This is MMR working as intended.
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The most important question is how did you obtain that kill rate? If you are not patrolling and just hanging around a hook focusing on one player while they run you of course your kill rate will go down. Assuming you are playing against SWFs. However I have played in some seal team 6 soloq where we had it very well organized with no coms we just knew what to do.
I do agree though the new MMR is way off though.
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It's not just killers, MMR also punishes survivors (in solo queue at least), it's just on the opposite end when you're handed down to low MMR. No, the game is not balanced around bad players as it is claimed here so often and even worse, there's no way out of there because you need to consistently win your games to be matched with other survivors who have some game sense or play not just to mess with the killer and die, but you have three teammates who hand the other side - no matter how bad - a free win so that you won't move up in MMR.
I have stressful days too and when I play I want to win some games as well and not just be a punching bag for other players for reasons out of my control which is currently exactly what it's feeling like.
As survivor you only share 1/4 of the blame for losing, and so can easily deflect and mentally relax.
Disagree. I escape around 10-15% of my matches recently, 20% if it's a good day. You want to know how many killers I got yesterday who were so much better than me that they would have deserved their win? Zero. And I'm not even that good at the game. None of them had any clue of how to run the various tiles and made plenty of other hilarious mistakes. It doesn't help if I run the killer around the map if my teammates are looting chests or crouching around the edge of the map in that time and go down in seconds when it's their turn being chased. Constantly losing because the matchmaking puts survivors in your lobby that are even worse than the killer is deeply frustrating and not mentally relaxing.
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Pointing to Nurse or Blight as examples to try and prove that killer in general is not too difficult with new MMR is like pointing to a lottery winner as evidence that everyone has a good chance of winning the lottery.
You misunderstand the difference between generalisations and exceptions. You just forefeit your right to any kind of intelligent discussion. Try again.
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This isn't even remotely surprising, as you've forgotten a very important point I made in the post. Survivor is a far lower skill role than killer, and so it naturally attracts people who don't want to be challenged, and even if they are god survivors, they're babies in comparison to a god killer in terms of skill. Therefore, even though in theory they should be capable of infinite escape streaks, their natural complacency that comes with the ease of the role will screw them over every once in a while. Or, as should be obvious, they just run into a great Nurse or Blight, which are OP killers that are exceptions to the generalisation of my post.
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I direct your attention to the nature of asymmetry I already discussed earlier. I answered this exact response earlier on, so please read the thread before commenting.
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It isn't a matter of discussion. Winning is more fun than losing, objectively. Having variety in your life is more exciting than repetition. Neither of these things are in contention, and you therefore have no way to "disagree" with me. Anything else you said was already forefeit.
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I obtained a ~80% kill rate by being great at the game. Survivors are stronger than killers and yet I got those numbers without playing Nurse or Blight. However new MMR means that survivors are always P100 swfs in top MMR if you get unlucky, and it just isn't pleasant to play against every game. Therefore my kill rate has plummeted in a very short span of time. MMR in a party game is nonsensical.
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Did you even watch the video? As if Nurse and Blight are the only killers that cant do that. 😂
Whatever, you have proven in every possible way to all here your obvious lack of understanding and common sense. On top of that, your ridiculous emotional reaction to basically everybody not agreeing with you might be entertaining, but definitly not releavant.
Lets agree we disagree. Good luck with your further games.
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I don't need your permission on when to comment on a post. I don't care if you answered it or not. This isn't a Q&A. I don't have time to read everything you've said.
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Playing killer is extremely unfun right now. Gens are rushed so hard that you don't even have a chance. I'm getting one hook and two hook games. Can't even get a kill. Can't get pips.
Eventually they will just have to replace killers with bots because nobody is going to want to play killer.
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I want these insane teammates you guys always go on about. I am back to getting matched with P100 killers who have 5000+ hours and teammates who won't touch a gen the entire game. Every game is just 3-4 slowdowns and hard tunneling. MMR did seem better for awhile but it's back to being random for me.
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I'm serious. It's not like it's only 1/5 games. It's like every single game. Gen rush non stop. Can't get pips at all. I've played like 10 killer games this morning. Only two pips. I can't play fair and get pips. It's absolutely awful and soul crushing to play this game as killer. It's the opposite of fun. And every game in chat after is the most toxic 12 year olds ever. They need to get rid of chat completely. It does NOTHING GOOD AT ALL for the game.
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Stop playing for hooks.
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"I win 80 to 90% of my games"
"The game favours survivors"
Which one is it? Cause thats a contradiction.
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"Oh no, actual challenge in my PvP game from time to time? The horror!".
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You've got a massive ego problem and now you complain that you actually have to play the game.
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Posts thread on discussion forum. Responds to discussion by saying it isn't a matter of discussion. Apparently it seems holding a different opinion means I automatically forfeit my position.
If this is how you approach discussions then I guess you are correct that it isn't a matter of discussion. You position was clearly objective fact and there can be no debate on this matter. Everyone who spent time to read and respond to you and this thread was wasting their time because you already have all the answers and the objective truth about this game. In fact you wasted your own time. Why make a post on a forum over a topic that is indisputable and objective fact?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but ain't this one of the most entitled post?
"recently won around 80-90% of my games" + "However as of recent, I'm running into EXTREMELY sweaty matches every single game" = Isn't it like MMR should work?
It work like that in EVERY game with MMR system, no?
Or you just want always win with zero effort, right? ;-)
If you play sweaty, that's on you. If you lose so much even with sweat, you don't belong on that level. You'll lose a row of matches, MMR will drop to your level.
"despite the fact the game (and devs) naturally favors survivors" - that's complete BS, btw, telling that from personal experience, because I have to play survivor too (book challenges), and it's the most unfair and miserable experience, and the problem is that I couldn't drop in MMR any lower. Try survivor, you'll understand.
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That's the goal, to weed out competitive players, especially Killer. They want to make it as stressful as possible to play Killer so Survivors can tea bag you all through the trial, then tea bag you at the exit gates. If they cant do that, they'll push a narrative about a Killer strat they cant beat and get devs to cave on destroying whatever you have to make their jobs harder.
It's already 4 v 1, but they want it to be 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1. Making the purpose of the asymmetrical aspect useless. I thought Survivors having numbers on their side was to counter the Killers being dominant, but that's not enough. Survivors are gonna want to sacrifice Killers to the Entity next.
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Sir, that's what it means to "Meet your match". You should look at it as a compliment. The algorithm thinks you need a challenge because you were winning 80% to 90% of your matches. Now you've been humbled. Rise to the occasion and do better. I get the same challenge, but I make sure to hook at least 2 out of the 4.
Use psychology. The problem with SWFs is they love protecting each other. Use that against them. Hook one and make them leap-frog each other on the hook. People that have similar names are my favorite. I know ahead of time to focus on them because if you get one it's easy to get the other. Their friend is usually the one getting them off the hook too fast.
Players that use Dwight are usually gen rushers. Get the gen rusher first. David King and Steve Harrington love to loop. NEVER, and I mean never chase survivors that are looping. All the survivors have to stand still at some point. Work smarter, not harder. Control the gens, control the match.
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I think something a lot of people are not understanding about the original post is that it's very black and white when it comes to matchmaking. There's people above a score, and people below it. You're either in group A or group B. Higher than average MMR doesn't mean you should always be losing your games/winning your games. Not even 80% of the time. This is a problem Behaviour needs to fix, but how I have no idea. The only thing I can think of is making the wait times longer so you get matched with people closer to the other sides mmr. Also if people are in a SWF, and you have say two very high mmr survivors, one average, and one low mmr, the average mmr of the group should match against the mmr of the killer, I'm not sure if that is how it works or not. Also, maybe people should have to have a certain MMR to play in a SWF with their friends if they are higher MMR. Other games do that.
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My problem is similiar BUT. When i play as killer, i go against GOD survivors and teams, but in the otherside its never happen. when i play survivor i play against GOD killers, "championship" killers and my teamates looks like begginers. when i will have god survivor in my team or when i will play against begginer survivors? NEVER, this never happen. This is the trully frustration now. Playing killer without hard tunel and Solo survivor is absolutely miserable and unfun today and the DEVS dont seem too worried about soloq.
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As far as i can see this whole post its just about EGO, be more humble my friend, imagine every killer player in the game had your supposed killrate of 90% win games, the game would be a disaster, no one would ever want to play as survivor, so you wouldnt play other than bot games, is that what you want? There are two sides in the game, both sides should have fun at some point, you cant put on argue the mmr system is trash because the game is choosing you harder survivor teams, its doing that because of your killrate, Im not saying this is the case but thats why tunelling and camping all the time is only a viable strat when you are playing in low tier mmr and most of the times it works because most times are uncoordinated solo qs, but the problem with that is that makes you feel that you are good at the game (when you are not), so when you get a real deal in high mmr you will get stomped, because you dont know other than tunelling or camping, you lost track of the macro game and other strategies. so it will take some time and some lost matches, but in the end you will end up wining some more.
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I understand that for a lot of people:
- sometimes you just wanna chillax, do a fun build, and win easily
- sometimes you want to sweat, strategize and face fun and strong opponents.
The problem is when you cannot choose whom you face depending on your mood. I feel like having 2 separate game modes would help a lot with this. Let's say you are a really good player with high win rate. Your MMR is high, so it gives you strong opponents. When you're in the competitive mood, this feels great. When you get a win, it feels incredibly awesome, like you've just beaten a strong Dark Souls boss. Very rewarding.
However later or another day you just wanna have a chill match, and bring a fun/quirky build. The MMR won't let you have that chill match. And then you feel forced to be in this competitive mode. I understand that's why people tend to hate strict MMR. But it's also not fair if you just keep stomping people over and over again in public matches. It might feel really good to you, but your opponents had a miserable match. If you won easily, they lost terribly. It feels bad for them. For a good balance, either both sides need to be in the competitive mindset, or both need to be in the chill, casual mindset.
I am really hoping for the implementation of 2 separate modes: 1 casual one and 1 competitive one. Limit perks/items/addons or randomize them to minimize the sweat potential in the casual mode. And then keep allowing everything in the competitive mode, so both sides can do their best.
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