If both Survivors and Killer play perfectly, who wins?

HerInfernalMajesty
HerInfernalMajesty Member Posts: 1,800
edited December 2023 in General Discussions

Hypothetically, if both the Survivor team and the Killer play to their absolute theoretical best, what is the outcome of a match? 4E? 4K? 2K since 60% kill rate is the average?

I understand realistically it may be impossible but for the sake of discussion assume both sides play to the max peak ability possible.

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Comments

  • CorvusCorax86
    CorvusCorax86 Member Posts: 1,072

    Well, if it is a "perfect" game then the survivors as 4 minds can always best a 5th.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 11,115

    Contrary to what some people believe, this isn't 2017 DBD

    :(

    Send me there, PLEASE.

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 2,001

    Depends on the killer and map. Hypothetically if both sides played like perfect robots, we feel it comes down to the map and killer in question.

  • GentlemanFridge
    GentlemanFridge Member Posts: 5,692

    In a hypothetically perfectly played game, I think it goes to the survivors. Dunno how close it would be, though.

    It's an unstoppable force meets inmovable object kinda deal, though.

  • I_CAME
    I_CAME Member Posts: 1,289
    edited December 2023

    It's a dumb fantasy scenario because even comp teams do not play perfect matches. Getting four people to play perfectly in a game is not something that ever happens in a real match. Then there is the Nurse/Blight factor as well. Every argument about survivors being stronger is always based on these fantasy scenarios that don't actually happen. There's always a big IF at the start of it.

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 5,302

    It would be very much reliant on rng and luck.

    However, I'd guess it may be the Killer who wins. The reason is we currently have a massive winning streak by a Blight player (was it above 2,000?). He must have played a swf who played as close to perfect or competitively, so the results are there as some loose but plausable evidence.

    However, with each rng this will always play a strong factor if both sides are equally "perfect", so any result could happen on any given day. There is no solid answer to this. Fortunately, this is something I doubt will ever happen, not possible.

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,601
    edited December 2023

    Depends if you include perks and items since its ultimately an arms race for time, and in this context I assume perfect play means perfect information on both sides as well

    No perks nothing its just killer hands down, nurse easily reaches a survivor and downs them in 10 seconds then slugs them because assuming they have perfect info and no perks the slug can't pick themselves up and ends the match with 4 slugs after a bit of juggling in ~2 minutes with peak efficiency on all sides

    Survivors benefit more from the items and addons than a killer does because their objective time easily goes from 450 to 354 (assuming 1 survivor chased first never gets to use their toolbox), and the optimal speed tactic of no hook slugging now has to deal with unbreakable or even no mither / 4 luck offerings and slippery meat + up the ante to counter hooking. Survivors can last a very long time but likely they would still lose, but the map could be the tipping point

  • ratcoffee
    ratcoffee Member Posts: 1,458

    Depends on a lot of factors, but in most cases it would be survivors who win in a hypothetical mistake-less game.

    however no game is ever gonna be free of mistakes, so it's kind of a moot point

  • fussy
    fussy Member Posts: 1,609

    I think there can't be "perfect plays", because there are many 50/50 situations in this game. But if both sides play at their best, I'm pretty sure survivors will win in most cases, because maps is also important part of this theory. Only exception is Nurse.

  • cipherbay_
    cipherbay_ Member Posts: 379
    edited December 2023

    There is little to no factors to take into account. Survivors will 100% win, You have built in Haste, BT, and Deliverance. Stacked with second chance perks and medkits. Survivors would clearly win

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,074

    If the killer plays perfectly, brings their best, and is a Nurse, Blight or Skull Merchant? Killer. If the killer is not one of those three probably survivor.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,549

    4 Survivors on Discord all using perks that fit their playstyle (Not going to say the 4 strongest perks)

    And 1 Killer playing their best Killer with 4 perks that fit their playstyle

    So offerings will say the most Map Offerings to say the least... with hook Offerings being next

  • H2H
    H2H Member Posts: 738

    Survivors, easily.

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333

    If the idea is that both sides are playing perfectly then neither side wins in a proper way. Instead the server closes out which counts as a killing scenario for the Killer.

    Meme answer aside, if both sides are playing at the highest level of skill then usually survivors should win as they have numbers advantage and less mechanically demanding objective and gameplan. Survivors can snowball the game in their favor during the early game when most every killer is at their weakest. It's hard to make a comeback when survivors burn through gens without resorting to something like slugging.

    That said if the killer does gain control of the game then survivors are in for an uphill battle. Late game resources theoretically should be low and the killer should be fairly setup if they've managed to slow the game down. At that point it just becomes forcing that first kill to get the game into a 3v1 scenario which lets the killer start to really snowball due to massive amount of pressure losing a teammate generates.

  • TheArbiter
    TheArbiter Member Posts: 2,607

    Perfectly in general or perfectly in solo q vs in a swf

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,439

    I would love to see 100% alch-ring/green speed vs 100% efficiency survivors. Nurse really does come down to human error so that is probably sided with her but blight would be interesting.

  • TeleportingTurkey
    TeleportingTurkey Member Posts: 589

    4 escapes in equal conditions and / or 1-2k depending on the tier of the killer.

  • Majin151
    Majin151 Member Posts: 1,270

    I'd say it would be a tough match for both sides but the survivors would win as they will have the ability to pick the map if we take offerings to account as I'm 99% sure 4 map offerings guarantees the map when going against the one


    Although this type of thing could go either way and not guaranteed as there's too many variables at play

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,793

    It depends what you mean by perfect. Even before we get to 50/50 in chases, there are lots of decisions that are made without knowledge. As killer at the start of the game or off the hook you are faced with very simple decisions like 'left or right' to determine the direction you go. One of those choices is almost certainly better than the other, but sometimes its just a pure guess, though often its an educated guess on what players are probably doing, but at best you have probably.

    Then there are 50/50s in chase where both sides are just making a guess at the other player's move. There's a psychology to that, but no way to say what the perfect play is.

    Generally though, the survivors have an edge over anything but an S tier killer without mistakes. DbD is a chase game (tag) with perfect predictability. If the survivor plays it perfectly he would know whether he could beat the killer to a window or pallet with 100% certainty. Unlike humans playing tag, where every person runs at slight variations, the computer models move at perfectly predictable speeds, so if the survivor player is able to instantly (perfectly) calculate the distance between himself and the killer and the distance to a pallet, he'll know exactly which one to go to.

    On the other hand, its far more likely for the killer to play in this hypothetical perfect. The killer has the chase roll, if the survivor makes a mistake on the distance the killer capitalizes easily, and with four survivors, even communicating on comms, there are just more people to make mistakes.

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,870

    If it’s Nurse, they’ll win.

    If it’s Blight, they’ll win if they have the best add ons and good map RNG. Even without all that they’ll probably still do pretty well.

    Against any other killer the survivors will most likely win.

  • HerInfernalMajesty
    HerInfernalMajesty Member Posts: 1,800

    I would say in general but optimal would have to be a 4-person swf. So maybe a swf with 4 survivors.

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,120

    If both parties play perfectly than everything is relied on rng

    map, perks, add-ons, item, pallets spawn etc

    Killers have the edge

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,780

    You could also say the same about Killers playing perfectly

    They NEVER get out mindgamed, they never lose Survivors. They never allow the 3-gen to break. Etc etc

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 11,115

    Yes, my friend, we both know this feeling.

    I want the game I loved back. I don't wanna stay here with maps that I do not enjoy, powers that I don't recognize, and my beloved Freddy being gutted.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,780
  • H2H
    H2H Member Posts: 738

    I guess ultimately I just see those scenarios as more in survivors’ control by default. But I could certainly be wrong! And I could see it swinging the other way, especially for very strong killers like nurse and blight.

    But also it’s a totally unrealistic hypothetical because no one ever plays perfectly 😄. A fun thought experiment but nothing more than that.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,780

    This is true.

    The game would be rather boring if everyone were perfect.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,435

    A survivor playing it perfectly is neight impossible to catch, they get their fast vaults, know all the tiles in an out, greed pallets to the absolute max and wait at all the check points, mitigating most mind games, relegating the killer to more of a reactive role, then a proactive, while the other three survivors slam gens.

    The killer can also mindgame, for example by moonwalking and thus hiding their red stain, but this is much harder then waiting at a check point, due to the nature of moonwalking, ie going in blind and not knowing what the situation will be.

    All this accumulates much more favorably for the survivors side, which is why high level play for killers is so stressful (or at least to a high slice of the killer demographic), while many great survivors are utterly fearless and even seek the killer out in order to bait them into a pointless and fruitless chase.

    Yes, the killer player also plays it perfectly in this scenario, but still, the survivors have ways of manipulation things in a way that they don't have to rely on the throw of a die on a 50/50, because they can wait and see and then react, while the killers mindgames often require blind faith and a prayer that the survivor messes up or plays along.

  • Liruliniel
    Liruliniel Member Posts: 3,047

    4 survs escape since the killer needs to catch a surv in a mistake to capitalize on it to gain an advantage for a hit.

    so that means a surv would be required to make a mistake, but as the title suggest they played perfectly so it's and easy 4 person escape with no hooks.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    Against the Trapper? Survivors win.

    Against Nurse or Blight? 3 gens is the best surivivors can hope for.