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Remind me again how you addressed trickster being unfun to go against?
Did I just have a miserable game against him? Yes. However, the question is: when is it not miserable?
I honestly don't understand how you've managed to fail one killer after the other since Knight's release, possibly saving Alien from the list.
Knight is miserable, SM is miserable, she got reworked twice and she's still miserable, Trickster was miserable before and you managed to make him even more miserable, while you were actively stating you didn't want that. Chucky was miserable because of scamper, and you "bugfixed" something that was arguably ok in his kit while maintaining the most obnoxious aspect of it.
I'm honestly speechless. I really hope you'll step up your balancing game in 2024. Looking forward to the roadmap, although I'm ready for more disappointment
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Could you quote the dev statement where they pledged to keep changing killers until every survivor will feel delighted to face every single one of them?
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Don't put words in my mouth or try twist them, I didn't say any of that
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The thing is, they wrote in their initial post regarding Trickster that they want to improve the experience for both sides. And then they did not do anything to make Trickster enjoyable to go against.
It basically boils down to "Do I have a high wall here or not?", which got even worse since he is now 4,6m/s and can run Tiles like any other Killer, if needed.
Post edited by Aven_Fallen on21 -
“I really hope you'll step up your balancing game in 2024. Looking forward to the roadmap, although I'm ready for more disappointment”
mmm, yep, pretty much… Cheers to the roadmap of the same ol’ rubbish next year🍻🥱
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I'll leave a question here: For you, what makes The Tricksters so miserable or unfun to play against?
Since his rework, we've been collecting feedback on how he feels, and we do want to know from both sides, Killers and Survivors. I'm happy to listen to as much constructive feedback on how you feel facing against him as you (and any Survivor player) wants to share. Are there specific parts of his rework that you dislike or are frustrating to play against? Something that you feel was overturned and worked better pre-update 7.4.0 (or the fixes since then)?
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Literally what @Aven_Fallen said. It boils down to "do you have a tall loop available" and yet now that he's 4.6 he can just play that normally too. In open areas you're just doomed, and open areas does NOT mean dead zones. He's arguably stronger at camping than bubba, especially with main event almost ready. You guys buffed again the timer to start the decay to 15 seconds, as if reverting that change was necessary (considering he has 58295 knives to work with, as if hitting one knife in 15 seconds is difficult).
I'm sorry, but if you were actively collecting feedback you wouldn't have panic buffed 3 things at the same time with the latest hotfix. Especially not the decay timer. And I can't really believe that statement considering his gameplay is fundamentally unchanged, when you (as bhvr) literally said you wanted to make survivors feel their actions actually mattered when versing him. With his design it's just impossible, his power is fundamentally flawed and number tweaking will just make him just weak or too strong, but still miserable nonetheless (as I said, he was miserable already before, just very weak, in fact when his buffs were announced I was just ?????? speechless)
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This is why trickster is basically impossible to play against on haddonfield you have to loop the houses or you lose
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Have you tried rpd where it's just long narrow corridors and wide open rooms with low tiles? It's fun and engaging !!
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He is fine, he feels fine, the only changes they should make are his addons since most of them are useless and others are necessary, such as memento blades, please do it base kit
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I really don't want to say this but how am I supposed to take seriously a totally unbiased opinion from trickster profile picture user
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what you mean, that's the most objective take i've seen for a while. 🧢
they are right about the memento blades though it's almost a must-run add on. it was buffed as a band-aid fix and didn't get reverted back after his basekit throw rate buff for some reason.
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My biggest problem with him is the buff to base speed, since he is a range killer
why does he need to be fast? Whats next? More speed for Huntress and Deathslinger?
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115 huntress with an iridescent head lol
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Well the difference is that I have mastered it since its inception and I know its strengths and weaknesses perfectly and currently it is FINE, just learn to play against it perfectly, you can have a counter game playing with tall structures, the generators can be repaired in a good amount of time if you do. You do it right and if you do it wrong they will die. Also when playing the trickster you have to know when to use the main event and your power so as not to be slow and have aim even if you think not if it is necessary I accept that not at the level of huntress but yes you have to have a good level
and also 8 knives to wound gives the survivor an advantage unlike the 6 before and above all you are conditioned to use an addons (memento blades) to not be slow when throwing
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Honestly I wish his power was reworked to fit more into "tricking" Survivors.
Like imagine if he could throw a knife, but it's also a smoke bomb or something, would lead to massive mindgaming potential. You could even have thermal vision to see through the smoke but it makes other stuff harder to see. They can maybe even tie the smoke bombs to his original band members and the awful fate they had.
What else could they do? Holograms, blinding lights and lasers, stuff performance themed, stuff fire/smoked themed, advance technology, etc. And what do we have? Knives.
Idk, the potential is there, it just feels like they didnt use the opportunity.
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Yeah, I give every killer update time before making a final judgement on them. So people have time to learn to play as or against him. IMO there is very little I can do on alot of maps or spaces against him. Unless you have high short-length walls, it's very hard to avoid hits. And alot of map reworks seem to involve dead zones and alot more unsafe loops - which against a Trickster are useless rather than simply unsafe. Ducking against ranged killers is always the best tactic with those sorts of tiles but Trickster being faster now makes that pointless, as i just lose ground.
I dunno what the answer is though tbh. I think when it comes to killers BHVR would value the opinion of the people who play them more, as with a roster of 30+ killers survivors wouldn't go against him all that often to affect their decision to play the game. If a killer felt bad to play as though, it could affect a small chunk of the player base's decision to play. Last game I played against him was on Haddonfield and he almost had a 4k at 5 gens. Two survivors DCd, so he killed the bots and then went AFK so the two of us left could smash gens and leave. Guessing he didn't find that game very enjoyable either.
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Honestly I have a fix that can kill 2 birds with one stone. Scott Jund suggested this a long time ago actually.
They should make it so the laceration decay meter is removed and the survivor has to manually take the blades out(it can be just a simple mend action).
Example let’s say trickster throws 4 blades at a survivor and they escape, the blades won’t go away they will stay until that survivor loses a healthstate or mends the knifes out. Each blade will take 2 seconds to remove so 4 blades it takes 8 seconds to take the blades out.
This creates an interesting dynamic cause now trickster has built in slowdown cause if a survivor has let’s say 7 blades they need to sacrifice gen time so they won’t get injured by laceration. Now trickster won’t feel obligated to tunnel or chase cause he can spread his pressure with his blades cause at max laceration(7 hits) it will take 14 seconds to remove the blades.
@dance let me know what you think of this
EDIT: I’m not saying this will stop tunneling, cause it will always happen. I’m just saying that trickster gets new strategies he can use he can do hit n run and spread pressure and he has a unique slowdown that fits his character. Just worded it wrong
Post edited by Chilli_man2400 on7 -
Y’kno, it needs tweaking, nevertheless, props for having some thought processing a bit further outside safer realms than BHVR’s braved a venture, lately.
Ji-Woon’s somewhat of a psychopath, but hasn’t quite lived up to the name Devs have bestowed upon him.
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Im full of unique (and probably stupid) ideas, just realistically these ideas will go nowhere since BHVR has a lot of limitations regarding what they can and cant produce in a time frame... BHVR is a company, time, and by proxy money, is fairly limited.
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Respectfully, let me leave a question for you: "Why do you think Trickster was so miserable to play against before his rework and what was changed to make him more pleasent?"
The burden of proof lies with the one making a claim. And the claim was that Trickster was changed to make him more enjoyable to play against.
Personally, I think he feels even worse to play against than he did before. Before the rework, you had to use his slow speed against him, so that he wouldn't be able to hit you around tall loops. Now that he moves at normal speed this is less of an option, so he will hit you more often. That doesn't necessarily mean he is much stronger (though he is), considering that he needs to hit more blades now but it makes him even less pleasent to play against.
Nobody likes feeling like they lose at every turn and this is what Trickster does. He hits you again and again and again with little counterplay around short loops. Even if he had to hit you 15 times before you lose a health state, that feeling would persist.
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I don't understand how this is supposed to change the fact that in any open area you're just screwed regardless of what you do
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You know what?
I am 99% sure the tweak they announced for Huntress in the road map is gonna be: Soldier's Puttee basekit and maybe some other add-on as well
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I think the idea is cool, however only if its possible to remove the blades while running, like the Artist's birds
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It’s to make it so trickster isn’t forced to chase or tunnel cause the reason they’re constantly unfun to verse is cause of the laceration meter. But with it removed he can choose his gameplay angle either Chase down or slow down.
The other guy suggested it you could have the remove blade option while running like Artist crows
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....he's still going to tunnel because it's exceptionally easy right now.
You say that like it's somehow better than not tunneling and is an obvious choice. We know that isn't going to work.
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He had only one counter, long walls. Now even this gone. Because he is now 4.6m speed killer. DbD is fun when both sides can outplay each other. When killer's power interactive for both sides.
Trickster? Take blades until you get hit. If wall is long, get m1. Dodge his 2 knifes but 3rd and 4th is on the way to hit you. The question is who thought this killer will be fun for both sides?
Huntress is so much better than him, for both sides.
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...He will still tunnel if he wants to.
There is no power in the game that encourages tunneling. There never has been.
It is a frowned upon strategy and it is extremely effective right now due to the lack of DS. Any killer can choose to do it, regardless of which character it is.
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Maybe I worded it wrong. I’m not saying it’s going to completely stop tunneling but it will give trickster new gameplay strategies instead of just going after and trying to injure this one guy.
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Oh, I get that, and they can do much more than they’ve led ppl to believe otherwise; they just haven’t done more, or won’t do more, unfortunately… but in many cases, they can.
Would be nice if BHVR would listen more to these ideas, such as yours, regarding new material (or upgrades) and give creative minds of players who faithfully play their game more focus, than merely listening for the nerf/buff cries to the extent that their ‘due diligence’ quotas have been fulfilled.
They open the partnership board for cosmetic design and such… be cool to see them give their players some in-depth creative control to a Killer every once n a while.
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Though unable to dethrone Ghostface, Trickster sure is a strong contender for the position of "killer I hate most to play against".
I've complained about Trickster not being fit for the game aesthetically. but that isn't the actual problem that I have with him. This can be easily fixed with cosmetics (which hasn't been done yet, but it can be).
The problem is that he has always been very unfun to go against, and after this rework he is even worse. Essentially, just like @Aven_Fallen said, his counterplay is nothing but high walls, and those aren't always available, especially with the map reworks constantly creating deadzones. And now he has the standard movement speed for killers, so he can run tiles in the regular way if needed.
That isn't fun to go against.
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They didn't change him to be less miserable for survivor players. They changed him to be less miserable for killer players because he's not chosen often.
Except in their rationale which has led to their execution, they seem to have completely bypassed a major reason behind killers not choosing him is because there was a massive spate of survivors just giving up or DCing when they got him. So it got to the point where one chose him. That former is still the case from matches I've played against him. I expect the latter to be so too.
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He got some buffs but now his TR is 32m radius and 8 shots are needed for injure/down.
The moment you are being chased by him might be miserable but except that, he isn't at all.
Currently there are 34 killers, you can't expect all of them to be fun to play against.
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Overreact. Trickster is fine now and he suffer more than people think about it. 8 knifes instead 6 for a 1 healthy state removed his the best tatic he had before. Downs on pallets and windows are SO MUCH more difficult to make now than before, you lose much more time now. Again, Hes suffering more than people thinking. Hes better than before, but, stay calm, he still lower than Huntress and he is not OP or whatever. Play as Trickster is not simply hold button and always everthing will works for you.
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I'm honestly not sure why you would ask us this question if then you won't reply anymore, especially when posed with the same legitimate question:
So, please, how do you think those changes would make trickster more pleasant to go against?
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The change Trickster needs is fatigue on injure. He's the only killer in the game who can injure you and continue to injure you after taking a health state with no fatigue/slow down.
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