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The need for access to the old maps is rising
There have been some discussions recently regarding the horror aspect (or lack of one) in Dead by Daylight. And whenever one of those discussions pops up, the maps are also mentioned.
And for good reason! The maps are the very heart of the horror atmosphere. And when that heart stops beating well... we look at you, reworked Coldwind Farm.
With the Realm Beyond close to claiming its final victim, I believe it is time we discuss the possibility of the old maps coming back to the game. And I'll make something very clear for those of you who enjoy the map reworks:
I am not asking for them to be removed.
Remember that I lost my favorite killer. I am heavily against taking away the things people cherish.
But I don't think the situation is okay for players like me, who loved those old maps. Or perhaps new players who wished they could play on those maps. Right now you click on an Old DBD video, you immediately feel saudade (translated from Portuguese, "saudade" refers to an emotional state of melancholic or profoundly nostalgic longing for a beloved yet absent something or someone), but when you go play DBD your favorite map isn't there anymore.
And I want to change that.
There are many ways to bring the old maps back, some easier than others. I haven't thought of a definitive solution yet, but I did think of some options: perhaps BHVR can add a "classic mode", since we've recently saw their ideas for alternate game modes. It could go as far as to add old powers / perks and add-ons, but that is just a suggestion.
Or perhaps a "classic pack". We know for a fact the game supports people playing on the same map with different lighting, as modders literally did that. They could add the option for us to choose between old and new maps, just making it clear you might put yourself in a disadvantage by doing so. I certainly wouldn't mind.
As long as we don't take away anything that people enjoy, I see no harm in giving us the game we loved back.
We just need to find a way of doing so.
Comments
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Agreed, they must bring back old map atmospheres anyhow.
Though I didnt play with old maps, they look much better to me than current ones. Rich fog and gloomy sky suits very well with the original theme of this game. The game is losing the aspect of horror, so I think Bhvr should try to roll the theme back
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- The dark
- The fog
- The grass
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Hmm I understand how you feel and know how powerful nostalgia can be, but those old game modes were build for a horror party game which dbd is no longer either.
Things like wow classic play to peoples emotion because they were there AND modern wow is trash all around(Just like anything blizzard owns). Modern dbd on the other hand is better objectively, not because it's so much more fun but because it's far more replayable.
Also, dbd doesn't have large enough playerbase or devs who move faster than a snail in order to work two separate games at the same time. I know for a fact classic wouldn't be just some game mode, that's never how it's worked anywhere else.
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I do wish they considered atleast adding back the old versions in custom games
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all they need to do is bring back the old darkness & fog to all the reworked maps.
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I think changes in atmosphere are possible without huge map reworks.
I just imagine maps like coldwind or Erie during midnight with some candles or bonfires. That be amazing if you ask me.
You are absolutely right though. Many maps dont feel scary at all.
As an example: Nostromo wreckage has amazing and dull atmosphere in one map.
The inside of the Nostromo feels amazing for me personally. It's dark, some grizzly details like the face hugger. It's damaged from the attacks of the Xenomorph with some lights dangling and blinking from the cieling and walls. Amazing.
But then you have the outside area that is just Grey rocks. Nothing else. Not scary at all if you ask me. Maybe part of the map could have been a cave where a part of the Xenomorph hive could be showcased. Running through corridors filled with eggs sounds like an absolute nightmare to me.
Lots of dbd could be improved by a simple change in scenery.
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Do you only want to bring back the atmosphere part or also the maps in general?
I started the game some weeks before COH was killed and most maps already looked like they do now. When watching videos the old atmosphere was far better. I really don‘t like that you can see from one end of the map to the other.
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Ah, I'm glad to read this, my friend.
You would've loved them, I'm certain of it. They were leagues ahead of the maps we have today, especially in terms of horror.
All extremely important for a Trapper main, I'm sure :)
Well, this is your opinion. It is a valid opinion, of course, and I'll respect it as long as you respect mine, but I don't think it can be stated as a fact.
It just doesn't ring true for everyone. Want an example? Me.
I dislike what DBD currently is, but I loved what it used to be. The Old DBD was one of the best games I've ever played and I watched it slowly become something I despise. But there are people who enjoy the current state of the game, and I can bring back aspects of the game I loved without hurting their experience. I don't think anyone would genuinely oppose the idea.
And besides, it doesn't have to be a classic mode. I was just brainstorming a few ideas, but a classic pack or adding the maps back into rotation also works. Maybe an offering that specifically takes you there... I would use it every game.
That would be good. It isn't enough, in my honest opinion, but it sure is a step in the right direction.
That I believe they have to do anyway, because they are awful in terms of atmosphere.
But still, I have a connection and the old maps. Many players out there feel the same. I don't think it is okay to just... let the old maps go.
The problem, my friend, is that those huge map reworks have already happened. No one asked for them, no wanted them, and all they did was make the maps worse. At least in my opinion.
So what I am looking for is to fix both problems at the same time. The old maps are missed by many players out there and they had an excellent horror atmosphere. You bring them back without straight up removing the reworked ones and everyone wins.
Both.
Something has to be done with the reworked maps because they simply lack the horror atmosphere DBD has to have.
But I want the maps I loved back. I really really do.
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Sigh. I would love to get them back, i really do, but unfortunatly i fear the chance is extremly low. Well, you have my support for that request and for sure from many others aswell.
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The chance is probably low, yes. But it isn't zero, and that works for me.
It doesn't hurt to ask. I see no reason why they wouldn't bring them back, especially when there are ways to do so without hurting anyone else's experience. Even newer players want a chance to play on those maps.
Everyone wins.
And thank you for the support, my friend. I'm always happy to find people who enjoyed aspects of the Old DBD.
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Yeah i think having both halves in the game would be fine. Itd combine the new and the old for the people who liked the older versions. And the older versions could fit a gamemode like "old dbd" i feel like the old maps fit a better astetic and look for the games design. (Coldwind farm being a big example) i miss them myself. Soon it might be just hawkins left with the old look. Assuming its not reworked to.
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Hello, my friend! Good to see you here.
I agree completely, the old maps were excellent for aesthetic and atmosphere, even now they fit DBD far more than the reworked maps do.
Ah, if there was an "old dbd" mode I guarantee I would never see the regular game again. I miss that game so much.
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If they added that to custom lobbies, I'd welcome it. Let EVERYONE have a chance of experiencing the switch in mindset of "ooohh, this darkness and fog is spooky" to "#########, I can't see a thing". I don't want to relive the hayday of Blendette in normal matches, so let ppl have their 15 minutes of giggles in customs so they can understand WHY we don't have moonlight offerings anymore.
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Unnecessarily harsh, my friend.
One of my suggestions is to let us choose between older maps and reworked maps, so you would be able to choose the reworked ones if you so desire. This way, everyone wins.
Why would you respond harshly to a suggestion where you don't lose anything?
And I didn't even mention the Moonlight Offerings in here. Yes, I do wish they returned to the game, but that is a discussion for another post.
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The map reworks definitely made the maps worse in atmosphere, but not necessarily in terms of gameplay. Most loops and tile design has gotten better. The desizing of many maps, especially mothers dwelling is very welcome.
If we could have the best of both worlds, dbd maps would certainly not have the bad reputation they have now.
The graphical reworks happened, at least form what i see, because everyone is obsessed with better and better graphics. There is no denying, that old dbd maps looked..... blurry. But that griddyness also held beauty.
Some changes in texture or just a shift in daytime would help the atmosphere on a lot of mjaps a ton.
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I do not want old cowshed back please.
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By all means, I'm in no way against an optional feature to let ppl experience it themselves without dragging me in. I WANT people to experience just how dark this game could be so they'd understand 2 things. 1... YouTube videos can be edited to allow the viewer to see and 2... the game stops being spooky and starts being annoying pretty quick.
If they could release the old patches of the game to give people a good understanding of why changes happened...that would be great.
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We'll agree to disagree on this one, my friend. I respect your opinion, but to me the map reworks have absolutely nothing positive about them.
But that is just fine, we can keep it that way. We won't see eye to eye on everything, and as long as we respect each other everything is okay.
That is why I wanted to find a solution that doesn't include removing the reworked maps. Like I said, I don't like the idea of people losing what they cherish in this game. I did, and it feels awful. So I don't wish that upon anyone else.
I think having the best of both worlds in the game means having a choice regarding which version of the maps you want to play on.
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I think infinite loops have no place in dbd. Thats it honestly.
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Please read the full post before commenting.
Two of three suggestion involve a choice, you wouldn't see anything you don't want to.
Then please, don't act condescending about it.
I see no need for your tone, not when the suggestion doesn't "drag you in", as you put it.
Please keep it respectful.
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Me neither, but you don't have to change the entire thing just to get rid of them.
Maybe the old maps can be taken from that one patch that adjusted the god windows. Or better yet: take them from further back and adjust their loops accordingly. I don't know, my friend, I don't have all the answers.
I just want the game that I loved back. Some aspects of it, at the very least.
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I'd only be okay with it if the old maps were just reskins. But if they brought it back with the same gameplay that would be horrible.
Especially with how MMR is now.
If the old maps have anything like this, i don't want em.
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"Or perhaps a "classic pack". We know for a fact the game supports people playing on the same map with different lighting, as modders literally did that. They could add the option for us to choose between old and new maps, just making it clear you might put yourself in a disadvantage by doing so. I certainly wouldn't mind."
Straight from the post, my friend. This one would work for ya.
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I just wish it had been optional.
I refuse to believe the people who enjoyed the old maps were not taken into consideration, not even for a moment.
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Agreed. I hate the daytime maps in terms of atmosphere.
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So do I, my friend.
I'm happy you agree!
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It's always been a massive pet peeve of mine when people point to Coldwind as a realm that now lacks in horror atmosphere. The realm that is extremely visually evocative of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, a movie of immense horror atmosphere in some part due to the aesthetic of a desolate, rundown farm baked in the Texas heat...
It ties into the wider misunderstanding of how "horror atmosphere" must somehow mean "visually gloomy". The game's not lacking in horror atmosphere at all, even in the reworked maps, you're just able to see the actual horror signifiers and aesthetics better now.
To the wider point, I'd support making them playable in custom games, as someone else said. It'd be nice for the people with nostalgia, and for everyone else, it'd be a reminder why those things changed. As long as no addition makes me personally play on a worse version of any map, I'm fine with it.
Honestly, in general, I'd like to see custom game tools be a bit more robust, but that's a topic for another thread.
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Hi, jester! Good to see you here.
The point about Coldwind Farm will remain as "agree to disagree". If you like it, that is fine, I respect your opinion. I just disagree with it.
As for the wider point, I believe the maps being playable in custom games is a step in the right direction, but it won't be enough for me. It will be nice at first, but playing against bots will get boring after a while. My favorite suggestions are either a classic mode (maybe the proposed Disgustingly Scary mode could use the older maps, as they are a better fit for it imho), or the option to choose between which map you want to see.
Both are possible, and no one is going to lose anything. Everyone wins. I'm glad these kinds of suggestions are acceptable to you.
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It's not that I like it, it's that its horror atmosphere is pretty obvious. It's meant to look like TCM, which is pretty much the pinnacle of horror atmosphere. I'm not even saying anyone has to like it or prefer it to the old one, but the specific complaint that it lacks in horror atmosphere is just off the mark.
A separate game mode would be fine too, of course, I'm mostly only objecting to the idea of adding variants to the map pool. Though, when it comes to custom games, I'm also of the opinion that this game would benefit from a proper custom-game directory like Overwatch has, with some robust tools for curating the experience.
After all, the separate game mode would be dependant on people actually queuing in it, which might take long enough that it spurs people not to bother. The custom game directory entry would have at least a chance of filling quicker, in my opinion.
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To start with my own perspective: I played DbD shortly after it first came out, didn't care for it, loved Deathgarden: Bloodharvest, gave DbD another look, didn't care for it, came back after patch 6.1 and have been playing it pretty constantly ever since.
So I don't miss old DbD because it wasn't a game I was interested in.
But I don't think the situation is okay for players like me, who loved those old maps.Conceptually I have no problem. If there were separate game setups and everyone plays what they like, what's the problem?
The issues become: would splitting the playerbase have an impact, would splitting the devs time be worth it, and could things be kept separate. By the last one, we might end up with players wanted perks buffed or nerfed because they were too strong/weak in the version that they played.
The question is are there enough players like you to justify those dangers? I have no answer to that, BHVR might from the surveys they do.
I do think, in the long run, there is a problem with treating DbD as a horror game as compared to a thriller. The ability to create fear runs off a lot quicker than the ability to create tension.
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Thats what i meant!
Older atmosphere with adjusted loop design.
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They had worse set ups than that.
Older graphics are VERY welcome. Older loop design is SADLY horrible.
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Then we are on the same page.
Taking both answers into consideration, seems to me a separate game mode could, potentially, have its own problems.
The option to choose between maps seems like the best solution, then.
You don't take anything away from people who like the new maps, the people who don't get the maps they loved back, no reason to worry about balance nor loop adjustments and everyone wins.
Sounds like we found a perfect idea.
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It's not that I like it, it's that its horror atmosphere is pretty obvious. It's meant to look like TCM, which is pretty much the pinnacle of horror atmosphere. I'm not even saying anyone has to like it or prefer it to the old one, but the specific complaint that it lacks in horror atmosphere is just off the mark.
No more off the mark than when people say anything with levity in it isn't horror.
Honestly i hope we get more maps set outside of night time or that bhvr expands into more unconventional parts of the horror genre yet to be explored by the game.
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Not particularly sure I want the game disk size bloated by bringing back outdated maps that were changes in the first place for very good reason.
Most of them aren't even that distinct between old and new, and are straight better now anyway.
Old Coldwind looked like an actual p*ss filter had been slapped over the screen. Old Autohaven? Forget about it.
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I don't really like it, but I respect your and @jesterkind opinion regarding Coldwind Farm. It is impossible to always agree with someone else.
Again, just like my ideas regarding Old Freddy, it is okay that you do not agree.
As long as they are respectful, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
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Except here's the thing, it's not about liking something or not, it's about the fact that horror can exist outside of conventional horror and that people who thinks horror cannot exist outside of that or that horror can only be serious are objectively wrong.
If horror didn't exist outside of the conventional, many horror movies and games wouldn't exist, TCM especially since the majority of it's most memorable scenes takes place during daytime.
You can dislike daytime coldwind by all means, but that doesn't make it's aesthetic any less horror as the genre isn't restricted to things like only taking place during the night or being 100% serious and dark only, because otherwise it's the same as saying that anything in the horror genre that is similar to that isn't horror either.
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There is food for thought here, but it is best suited for another post.
The idea here wasn't to discuss horror and its variations, but to collectively come up with an idea to bring the old maps back without hurting anyone else's experience.
I just don't like reworked Coldwind Farm, I don't think it fits within what I think DBD should be. This is an opinion, but so is every take here on the Forums.
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I mean, i don't need to tell you what my stance on old dbd is or how much i oppose the very idea of bringing anything from old dbd back in any way, shape or form since you already know as i've made it very clear before.
That said however, i think an rng mechanic that randomly selects a time of day the maps will be played on is a good solution to adding more variety to current maps, with offerings that allow players to increase the chance of which time of day the map chooses from.
It wouldn't be exactly as bringing back how it was in old dbd, but it would give the people who prefer maps to play during a specific time of day the option to have that.
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Yes, you don't.
I know you disagree with my ideas, just like you know I disagree with yours.
We will agree to disagree, respectfully. Just because we don't see eye to eye doesn't mean we will not be civil about it.
I will respect your stance as long as you respect mine.
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Like that it would be great. I don‘t like that they move everything around change some parts completely and so on. Just change the problematic things and leave the rest.
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Well, the graphical changes come from the opinion to please the crowd that wants their game to look up to date. DBD is from 2017. The older graphics clearly show that. Due to its nature, being a live service multiplayer game, the devs tried to go with the time, updating map design over the years.
This sadly also came with the loss of a lot of atmosphere.
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Yeah, I know.
But I am not asking for a reversion, I am just asking for a chance to play on the maps that I loved. That doesn't require a reversion.
I cannot possibly be asking for too much.
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Fair enough, I just dont see any killer wanting to play with the old farm maps again etc.
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You see me, don't you?
;)
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With all due respect, even the TCM game has night time variations of the maps and still deliver of the feel of trying to tie in with the movie.
Whilst the maps are now evocative of TCM and Billy clearly being 'their' Leatherface at the time, it was inititially included as a night time map so I don't think this reasoning is entirely credible. Yes they could keep a daytime variant to tie in more with the official Leatherface and TCM vibe, but I still would prefer nighttime variants of this and Ormond to exist. It's even more annoying that there's a nighttime variant in the Chucky announcement and not one in game.
Ultimately, the game is called Dead by Daylight. It makes it a bit antithetical to the entire premise to have daytime maps..
Personally if like to see all maps start off as night time maps and gradually get lighter as matches go on to reach an end point , but they'd have to put a timer on trials for that which theyd never do.
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Gonna take at least 3 years to get old atmosphere back if happens.
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Worth it.
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I respect your opinion but I know it's not worth in the devs eyes if they don't split it into something they can monetize. I would hate og dbd, I'm just ok with current dbd. 1300 devs can't work on regular dbd at more than a snails pace, they can't add these old things even if it was a click of a button. Splitting player bases is not something devs will do unless they have enough of a player base to do so.
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Like I said, it doesn't necessarily have to be a separate mode, there are other methods.
And I cannot possibly pretend I understand anything about programming, but I bet it would be easier to add these old things back into the game than to do many other things, because you aren't creating something from the ground.
You are just adding back something that has always been there.
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