I hope bhvr realizes this
The last time a slowdown perk was introduced was in the artist path, around 6 chapters ago, Right now there’s a completely dominance of pop, pain resonance on the meta. And that’s not because those are broken, it’s mainly because every other slow down has been gutted, now, I’m not saying this to “attack” bhvr or anything like this, but there’s a true problem revolving around the killer meta. If we don’t buff other slowdowns, or introduce new ones, the meta will forever be the same, although in a perfect word people would only run chase and info perks, it’s simply not viable at a certain point, the more u progress on mmr, the more u will need slowdown perks.
ps: from reading the comments, it’s seems like there are 2 main requests, the first one being:
1º:
*gen slowdown staking is brutal for solo Q*
Absolutely, it’s, although it’s necessary in competitive and against some more coordinated teams it can be a bit too opressive in solos. My suggestion, and from some of the folks down here: Give killer a BASEKIT WEAKER regression (Ex: every time u hook a individual survivor the most progressed gen regresses by 7%) or something like that, it seems like gen slowdown is necessary rn, then we can make adjustments to either those not working so well together or not at all depending on the rewards.
2º:
*bring ruin back*
yes, it could be as simple as that, but I’ll try to translate the felling behind, regression perks that reward splitting pressure, and healthy gameplay SHOULD BE INCENTIVIZED. The main reason people resort to camp/túnel etc, is because it’s the most efective gameplay, instead of punishing for doing those REWARD NOT doing it.
Comments
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They do need to tune down Pain Res, it's a little too strong considering it's so easy to get value from it. Pop I think is okay but I could see it getting nerfed slightly.
And yes, much of the other gen slowdown perks need to be buffed so they're actually useable. So many garbage ones.
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Killers are using Pop and PR together and this combo is already so strong. We don't need to add 3rd perk to this combo. So honestly i don't want another anti-gen perk.
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I disagree. Slow down perks are super volatile since they usually work well with other slowdowns. Pop and pain res should be nerfed, but killers get some base gen regression for free.
Maybe a mini pain res for each unique hook? 7% damage to a gen when kicking it? Base Corrupt intervention? I have no idea, but introducing and changing around slow down perks hasn't worked yet
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Can't wait for three slowdowns and Corrupt!
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Call of Brine came out after Artist, with Sadako.
Overcharge was buffed after PR released.
Eruption was buffed after PR released.
Pop got nerfed hard, then was buffed twice.
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This.
And Grim Embrace is about to be buffed.
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Instead of just buffing slowdown perks, we should perhaps fix a few things that have been done to other perks.
We could stop STBFL from going to the chopping block, give BBQ its bloodpoint gains back, revert that really old nerf to A Nurse's Calling, and so on.
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They probably are being careful about too many gen defense perks because then people will just have them all in their loadout kinda like how it was during Overcharge/Eruption/CoB/Pain Res days and forget anything else that exists.
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They should bring back hex ruin
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Unless they add the ability for perks to be mutually exclusive, where you can't run certain perks in combination, having multiple viable slowdown perks is not a good way forward.
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Honestly the gameplay itself has become very stale, I wish they would buff both sides up big time just to make it more interesting and give life to people using different builds and strategies, at this point I don't think there's anything you could combo or physically do that everyone hasn't already done a thousand times over and that's why this game needs a little more than just a meta shift it needs something bigger that makes people have to dig to find a meta all over again and bring people back who've lost interest along the way.
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Slowdowns arent healthy for the game. New ones would make it just more boring to play. Buffing existing ones would make it more boring. Its already meta that lkillers with no confidence run 4 slowdowns dragging the game on and on. killrs tend to rely far too much on cheap design, and there is plenty to choose from as killer. I refrain from playing killer cause its so damn boring. If i want to play single player, i play more challenging games than dbd killer. and slowdowns getting buffed during perk overjaul was the greatest mistake in dbd history.
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Tbf, the other slowdowns got nerfed because people were using their synergy to stall games for as long as they could. Not just to slow down gens. The devs are probably gonna be alot more careful with slowdown perks going forward as a result.
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The ability to stack 4 slowdowns is the reason why slowdown perks should never be powerful (but some of them are). I wish they could make a mechanic that you cant stack slowdown like Exhaustion perks, then slowdowns can be more powerful.
The question should be made from Devs is how much time ONE slowdown perk can save? Is 1 min too little or too much? Pop with 8 hooks and reasonable Gen progress can cut down 1 Gen and a half. Should all slowdown can save that much time so stack 4 of them can make survivors do another 6 Gens?
If survivors able to do 11 Gens and have 2 escape, are the survivors being too powerful, or killer being in a MMR that too far higher than they should?
If survivors' objective split up to 70 Gen - 30 Gas. Gen slowdown perks would weaken it self, and they could release Gas slowdown perks in the mix.
Is anyone ever thought about perks that affect 100% into survivors' main objective a problem?
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Pop and Pain are too strong?No. Pop is weaker in most cases than it has been in the past due to a major nerf. Only because they have made the other options useless across the board, Pop has been significantly nerfed and is weaker in the majority of cases than in the past, and Pain has become a very stressful perk with hook generation and the need to pray it is not a sabotage PT.
There are many problems, as the option to remove the Gen regression perk is hard to come by unless the efficiency of Gen co-op is revamped or the map size is adjusted.
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i don't think we need more strong slowdown perks, that would warrant nerfing pain res and pop which are healthy perks imo that promote "normal" and regular gameplay.
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Isn't that what most use anyway? Deadlock / Surge, Corrupt, Pain Res and Pop?
At this point, what are the the devs even supposed to do? Information is a no-no (community says it's too much already), chase perks are either pretty terrible or very unfun to go against, slowdown has the danger of being used in combination and anti healing perks are again either terrible or very unfun to go against.
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BBQ for bloodpoints.
That one no survivor nor killer complains about.
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I would like that but that is not going to happen. They stated that they do not want perks to be popular for the BP gain.
But really, what else can they do?
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They did? I actually didn't know that.
Is that the reason why BBQ, WGLF and Prove Thyself got changed? Massive disappointment.
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Yeah. I think that happened around the time when they announced changes in 6.1.0.
The whole bloodweb could use a rework in my opinion. What is the point of different rarities, if you have every item / addon / offering in abundance anyway? Especially when the distribution doesn't make a whole lot of sense either...
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I'm fine with the Bloodweb the way it is, tbh, but I do think those three perks should get their bloodpoint gains back.
People would definitely use them, especially BBQ and WGLF, as they did in the past. That helps with the grind and perk variety.
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Stacking is problem, not perks.
If there was way to stop stacking CoB and Overcharge, both perks was just fine by their own.
That's only an example. People are using 3 or 4 slowdown perks together and this is ending with nerfs. That's why CoB, Ruin, Overcharge, Pop etc nerfed. And that's also reason why we are not getting strong anti-gen perks. Because we all know people will use it with PR and Pop.
Non of anti-heal perks are in use because Sloppy is doing everything by itself. It's best anti-heal perk and some killers even can use add-ons instead of perk. So why you even use other perks when you have this?
Information perks never got that much complaints. Right now only Ultimate Weapon got complaints for fair reasons. This perk has very easy values and killer is doing nothing for value. This perk is just outclasses any of other information perks
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But then you'd have the problem that you would greatly limit the killer's choice in what perks they are allowed to use. BHVR don't have the time to go over every perk and decide, if they want certain cominations to synergise or not. That would take literally forever and would also need to be reconsidered every time a new perk is released or a perk is reworked. So they would need to distribute perks into different categories instead and limit how many slots a killer has for each of them.
Sloppy isn't just the best anti healing perk because it does everything by itself but also because everything else is utter garbage. I mean, what are you supposed to do with Leverage, Coulrophobia (outside of niche builds, that are also hated from what I've seen) and the others? They are just bad.
There have been quite a few complaints about how it's too easy for killers to find survivors now with all the information perks available. UW is just one example. Even Friends Til The End was complained about for that reason, though that seems to have died down. I'll try to remember to point you towards the next complaints that come up.
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That's fine to limit strong perks.
Survivors have exhaustion perks but they can use only one at same time.
Survivors also have endurance perks but again, they can use only one at same time.
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Good point!
Faster chases result in less reliance on slowdown perks.
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You have to keep in mind, that there are 4 survivors and one killer.
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And one killer can be Nurse or can be Pig.
Current gen perks are pretty strong and they makes B and higher killers perform good enough. C and below are probably have issues tho.
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It would be great if they would change base game perks instead of releasing solutions locked behind new chapters. That goes for both sides.
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How much time should one slowdown perk save for killer for you? Give me a range of time, 60sec? 90sec? 120sec?
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Then that's more of a killer specific problem.
A killer stands against 16 perks. A team of survivors against 4.
Therefore one of the 4 should be more impactful that one of the 16.
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I am not against the current gen meta. But i am against to add more. Current gen meta is blocking them or regressing them. You need to choice.
Pop + PR is decent. We should not add another strong regression perk into those 2.
I know people want to see variarty but this will just end with Pop + PR + New Regression Perk. People won't switch their perks, they will use them together.
So i am against new strong anti-gen perks unless if they can't work with current meta and works very differently.
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I think it's fine for a killer to buy themself up to 180 extra seconds, if they use 2 or more slow down perks. A single slow down perk should not buy them a lot more than 90 seconds in my opinion (kind of depends on how the match goes) and the extreme of 4 slowdown perks isn't something I like either. But playing without slowdown for so long has taught me, that the game just isn't balanced that way.
Without it, your match ends too quickly for you to even have a realistic chance to perform well, considering that you need to get through resources too. I cannot even call this gen rush because the survivors I play against mostly don't use the strongest possible things to speed up gens but your average meta perks and items (often medkits instead of toolboxes). It's still not very nice when your matches quite regularly end in under 6 minutes.
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The problem is needing slowdown perks to compete. slowdown perks should be an optional choice, not a mandatory selection to play the game.
I agree with your sentiment. BVHR is too concerned with survivor having fun vs perks to make diverse perks for killer to use.
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So 1 perk add 1 extra Gen time. It sounds fine on paper, but should killers able to add extra 4 Gens with 4 slowdown?
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon doesnt think slowdown perks should be nerfed, same for me, slowdown perks could be stronger. But stacking is the main problem.
On killer loadout, it should be "which 1 or 2 slowdown perks combo should I use, and which other 2 perks should I use to enhance my power/addon play style?". Not "Im going to use the 4 strongest slowdown", and there goes every single match without creativity.
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Im with you on that!
I wish for a reduction of reliance on gen regression / gen slowdown. That was the original idea of 6.1.0. Sadly this goal wasnt really accomplished.
The less gen regression / slowdown we NEED, the better.
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I agree with that!
Also... just a small side note, using 4 "best" regression / slwodown perks is never the best loadout, but im sure, you know that. Many people feel, that gens go too fast. Therefore these players will use anything, they get their hands on to slow them down. Sometimes without even thinking if thats worth it.
I would love to see that change, but i honestly have no solution for tha, that would not be harmful to the overall game in some way or another.
Its a problem with the mindset.
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But should killers be able to add extra 4 gens with 4 slowdown?
That's not an easy question to answer. Consider it like this:
The killer gives up all 4 of their perk slots for extra time in a match. So they do not get any information, anti healing, or help in chase, which means that they purely rely on their ability to outlast the survivors. That however shouldn't really work that well because 3 of the most popular slowdown perks (PR, Pop, Surge) only work when they can get consistent downs. This is not an issue for Blight and Nurse but it definitely hits killers like Freddy, Wraith etc.
So we are going back to the same old problem of the disparity in killer power.
I think full slowdown is quite ineffective for the most part and therefore doesn't really need a nerf. But I understand that it's demoralising none the less. So I am not totally against it.
The problem I see is that they'd need to work around some issues, which could potentially make perk variety even worse and the game even more stale. That is not great for either side.
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It failed because gen kicking meta was stacking. It was not too bad on paper. But in action, it was hell to go against.
BHVR need to add some middle game slowdowns, this could help to fair playing killers. Grim Embrace is good example here but it's really so weak. I am hoping upcoming buff / rework brings this perk into good spot.
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I don't see how BHVR can fix this issue, personally.
The community at large has decided - almost completely divorced from real necessity - that they have to run slowdown perks all the time, and almost exclusively run slowdown perks at that. BHVR can't keep buffing the slowdown perks that are already perfectly good, and it'd be a logistical nightmare to release new slowdown perks with every chapter (Especially if they're meant to compete with the current meta), so their hands are somewhat tied on this front.
What they need to do, somehow, is encourage people to realise that they don't need slowdown perks. They do sorta achieve that when they buff other kinds of perks, and they should definitely keep doing it, but that's clearly not enough to address this particular problem.
How do you prod this community to realise they don't need slowdowns? It's a tricky question without a clear answer.
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I don't think Grim Embrace is really a weak perk. I mean, it has a pretty good effect. The problem is that the activation requirement is quite high and 40 seconds of blocked gens mean that survivors can hide that entire time (except the obsession and only if they don't have Distortion).
The idea is nice but the execution poor. They would need to ensure a killer can reliably activate it and get value from it but then they'd come dangerously close to overbuffing it.
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I think making it 60 seconds and showing all survivor auras will be good buff. But we will test it on PTB, so if there is problem we can see it.
Current Grim Embrace is just not worth it.
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Slowdowns will always be ran unless they're so undertuned that's there's no point to. Outright, why does it matter what those perk icons look like?
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Reworked*
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So a killer can sit on the hook for the whole hook stage while survivors have literally nothing to do? This is why I said reworked, they can't simply buff numbers
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To be fair, the anti-camp system does exist now. But still, you're right they shouldn't buff the duration.
What they should do, instead of reworking it fully, is allow the killer to see all survivor auras for a longer time. That'd make the perk much more useful because stealthing out the duration would be much harder for survivors.
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I dont think gen regression / slowdown being linked to an action that is not progressing the game (Gen kicking) is healthy. It just leads to stalemates and long matches. This was not the right decision by the devs. It was worth a try but lead to boring and unhealthy matches.
I'm all for a slowdown / regression mechanic that is based on multiple hook stages on multiple survivors. This however would have to be worth the trouble and not linked to a perk slot. Everything else would lead to tunneling.
It's similar to anti tunnel. This should not rely on a perk. Especially not on a perk you need to pay for.
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Disagree. The perk requires a lot of management. You don't want to activate it seconds after a gen already popped so you have to time your SH, there's a lof of timing and strategy involved so the pay off is fair imo. All 4 survivors need to be downed AND within range of a SH WHEN a gen is 50% or more completed.
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How is Pain res OP when u can only use it 4 times in a Game and its high RNG if u find a scourge Hook or not also Pain Res gives a reason 4 Killer to chase Different Survivor
U Survivor Mains want to see all strong Killer Perks gets nerfed but then defend broken Perks like Pre-nerf MfT
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I just want my Ruin back...
I think 200% was fine, when it gets removed as soon someone dies.
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