hey devs, this is a really bad idea.
Editing to say after seeing a lot of conversation around this, i no longer feel as strongly as i did in my below post. keeping the post up due to the great discussion happening below. i do feel like there could’ve been a better solution, but i no longer think the current solution is THAT bad :)
thanks for all the great input <3
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Comments
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They could have implemented something that’d only affect the very last gen, but why do that when they can make killer gameplay feel terrible across the board!
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even if it doesn’t impact average gameplay as they stated, putting a tight limit on such an essential and core element of the game FEELS soooo bad!!!
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Are killers really dry kicking gens that much? What are we doing? What games are we playing where we need more than 8 regression events on multiple gens? I can not recall a time where a gen got hit with Pain Res+Pop 4+ times and survivors weren't dead by that point.
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killers dont damage exact same generators 8 times in a trial where they dont 3 gen, and if you do it outside of that you are doing something really, REALLY wrong
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i’ve played a few matches with some pretty dedicated gen kickers. i wouldn’t say it’s a daily thing to witness, but i’m also one of those annoying gen tappers, so i probably encounter it more than the average surv main. regardless of gen tapping, i’ve seen a lot of killers with nwth kick 1% gens just to get some value from their perks. a limit/restriction isn’t going to feel good for those people. it might not impact gameplay much, but being limited regardless likely feels really bad.
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I probably don't kick gens that much. This is especially true because on the killer side I'm a Nurse main and seldom touch a gen.
However, I feel that there will be a time, with another killer, where this will be needed and that will annoy me greatly.
Beyond being a limit, it feels artificial and backward. I know broken beyond any hope of recovery but suddenly unbreakable? That's a new one.
Well, as far as I'm concerned this is a theoretical. I've only played a couple of hours during the last two months and I'm not eager to come back.
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this is my exact thought. theoretically speaking it won’t be THAT big of an interference in average gameplay. however, it’s yet another thing for killers to consider. another thing to be cognizant of. it makes certain perks look less appealing. restrictions of this nature feel bad. and that’s one thing the devs really drive home, is how gameplay “feels”.
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"i know i’m defending this change for killers a lot, but i’m a survivor main, and i can recognize this update probably feels reeeallyyy crummy for killers. and for survivors too! being able to tap a gen to stop regression is an essential risk it for the biscuit move while in chase. will i tap it and get away quick enough to miss a hit? will tapping it give the killer time to swing? will i tap it and have overcharge blow up in my face?"
I do not agree with this. First, this cat and mouse game is very annoying especially with SWF where one person runs back to the gen to tap while the others are also close by so that they are ready to pick up the survivor that you have just knocked down. Let all of them do the save or run to another gen. Very annoying. I see no risk taking here.
When overcharge hits you it is still possible to do a skillcheck while you are running away. It requires some getting used to.
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Kiss nowhere to hide and trail of torment goodbye. Now you're punished for using them because it takes up precious regression charges.
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on3 -
I dont think I even kick Gens 8 times in a game overall. I dont think that the limit on 8 Regression Events per Gen has any impact. MAYBE for the most extreme 3-Gens, but thats about it. Not for normal gameplay.
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So I get what youre saying about putting limits making things feel bad but almost all things in the game have limits. You are limited to being slugged for 4 minutes, you have a limit of 3 hook states, limited to 4 stacks of pain res, limited to a 60 minute timer. This is a limit 99% of killers in games wont reach, like the 60 min game timer. In addition it will be forgotten about shortly after its implemented because its not going to matter. people aren't going to notice it. Killers are seeing a potential nerf (which is actually a buff with the increase to 5% and survivors not being able to tap) and are going to be concerned and express that until they see that it doesnt matter. This actually might make overcharge and call of brine more prevalent because the gen speed regression will last longer.
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I get the concern, but I feel like the train has already left the station regarding any theoretical match where we're on regression event number 9 of a single generator and the survivors are still standing. That's a scenario where the killer is treading water.
Post edited by edgarpoop on1 -
They could easily remedy this by preventing the system from activating until there's 3 gens left. They lead us to believe whatever they did would only apply to 3 gen situations anyway instead of giving us this blanket gen regression nerf. Getting out of a 3 gen should be difficult.
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Dude the devs can see how many times gens are being kicked or regressed in a match. They picked this number for a reason. They can also increase it if testing doesn't go well.
Your kicks will also be more impactful and they completely removed gen tapping.
I'm sorry you won't be able to 3 gen anymore but it's time to adapt.
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This will barely have an impact on normal gameplay. Killers are unlikely to kick the same generator 8 times.
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Except if it didn't apply from the beginning it wouldn't address it.
If the gen kicks didn't start until 3 gens were left, we'd still be in the same position we are right now. A killer can pick 3 gens to defend from the beginning, survivors can't break it until they do all the other gens (which would be even more logical now as trying before hand would be wasteful), and then we're right back to the 3 gen attack defense.
Having it from the beginning encourages survivors to try and break the 3 gen early because even if the killer chases them off it impedes the possibility of the killer setting their whole game plan around the 3 gen.
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So they've technically limited a lot of perks this way, Dragon's grip, Trail of Torment, No Where To Hide, Call of Brine , Overcharge, Oppression.
Would be interesting to see where Surge comes into this, as you don't have much control over which gens get hit, SWF survivors could intentially go down near a specific generator from the start, allowing them free reign to repair it without fear of regression later on. Like a reverse 3 - gen.
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A killer will burn through 8 "regression events" not gen kicks in no time at all if they're specifically defending the last 3 gens. 4 survivors have a massive advantage in a 3 gen situation, so if a killer hasn't been taking chases they're guaranteeing their own loss. Survivors rushing gens without thought to their late game strategy and failing to notice they're 3 gen'ing themselves should be punished for it. And again, BHVR said the system would only apply to 3 gens and that's not what this is.
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That's pretty much how I feel as well. The only part that doesn't sit right with me is that (even if only in theory) perks like Trail of Torment and Nowhere to Hide are also affected by this.
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But they're not affected whatsoever if you're not kicking a gen 8 times...
I'm a huge fan of NtH, I like to pair it with CoB for better regression + info on stealth killers, but I don't think I've ever had to kick a gen that many times with it.
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4 survivors have a massive advantage in a 3 gen situation, so if a killer hasn't been taking chases they're guaranteeing their own loss.Great, we're encouraging killers to play better. Win/win.
Survivors rushing gens without thought to their late game strategy and failing to notice they're 3 gen'ing themselves should be punished for it.The idea that survivors just accidently fall into these 3 gens is greatly exaggerated. Even if the survivors are just repairing gens at random the chance that any of four survivors haven't gone for one of the 3 closest together gens is very rare. It happens because the killer stays on those 3 gens.
And even if they do exactly that, and set themselves up for a 3 gen, then the killer never should have needed to kick any of those gens. Meaning they still have 8 charges on each gen, getting right back in the position you suggested.
BHVR said the system would only apply to 3 gens and that's not what this is.They also didn't say they were going to increase the time gens lose on a kick or how long survivors need to be on them to stop regression.
But it accomplishes the same thing. Killers aren't going to realistically run out of charges unless they are playing for the 3 gen. This is like the fears that anti-face camp was going to be somehow weaponized/become common. Instead most players have seen it trigger maybe once or twice since release outside killers deliberately doing what it was meant to stop.
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This
I suppose it's not impossible that some innocent killer is going to get caught in the crossfire but as others have stated, how often are you damaging 8 generators period, let alone 8 damages on one single generator without doing an annoying 3 gen defense
We don't need 20+ minute games, even if it makes some killers sad that they can't 3 gen anymore and make the game painfully boringly drag out
EDIT: Hell, this is coming from one of three killers who actually runs Oppression. If anyone has a potential to get accidentally screwed over by this change, it's me and I'm STILL 100% on board with it
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Just the idea that these perks could be deactivated doesn't sit right with me.
I do not recall a game where I damaged individual gens 8+ times but it can happen and when it does, these perks are affected.
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If you run that perks bare without any additional regression effects, you will NEVER hit that limit when not actively enforcing it, esp. with trail of torment. ToT has a 60s cooldown after the effected gen stopped regressing (which takes more time now too). So for a single gen to run out of charges by using ToT, you need 8 minutes just for the cooldown to wear off. Half of your games will be done after that time.
For Nowhere to hide, I cannot recall a single game where I kicked a gen for the aura more than like 4 times (if not actively 3-genning). Sure if you add some more Pain Res, Pop and whatever to the mix, you might reach the max charges. But then you deserve that unregressable generator, imo.
Regression charges limit the amount of regression a generator can receive, thats a good thing to me. The minimum regression for 8 charges will be 20%, plus 8 times 4.5s to remove regression. Thats already pretty significant. And in reality, that regression will be much more, with Pain Res and Pop, or even just kicking the gen 8 times will sum up to 40% regression until the charges are used up.
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@CaulDrohn when I'm using NtH, I kick every chance I can get. It's a great information perk.
Btw, thanks for a reasonable/constructive reply even if we don't necessarily agree.
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I understand where all the complaints are coming from and what they want is to encourage chases instead of tunneling and gen camping. However what institutes a 3 gen scenario and wouldn't that just be a lay out issue instead? Like board design and place the gens more spread out. I forget which board but there is literally a wide open space and there are no gens, there are hooks but no gens. There is also one of the garage boards you could just spread the gens out better. Not many boards have the 3 gen scenario.
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With the exception of dedicated 3-genners, this change is a killer buff. I doubt it'll affect anyone who ISNT holding a 3 gen strat, but if it is an issue that affects normal gameplay... they can always tweak the number after PTB.
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I really wonder how this will affect Ruin. If a Survivor keeps short repairs on it and leaves it eight times, does the regression stop even if the hex is still active?
Otherwise, I like the changes.
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I haven’t been paying much attention lately. Wth is this bs?
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Why are people being drama queens about this specific change? If you're kicking the same generator more than 8 times and the Survivors are not forcing you to move away from that 1 gen, that would mean nobody on either team is playing correctly to begin with...
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It only counts regression events where a 2.5% chunk is lost at once...so ruin isn't affected at all. It's also not gonna affect those 1% kicks to trigger NWTH.
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Generators can now be hit (Kicking or Perk) a total of eight times. Kicking is now 5% hit to the gen progress, and also requires a survivor to repair 5% of total progress to stop its regression.
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3Gen measures in addition to base kit BT, hook grab removal, and HUD visualization.There is gradually less and less to think about and countermeasure from survivor play, and while it is certainly more comfortable, it seems like the game is experimenting with how much to do to reduce the player's IQ to zero these days on the other hand.
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Ruin is not effected.
From Peanits on the first page of the dev update thread:
It is not. Only things that cause an instant 2.5% regression or more (not counting Survivors missing skill checks) count as a regression event. Since Ruin has no instant regression and only gradually removes progress, it does not count as a regression event.0
