Hot Take: CoH Having Self-heals Again Would be Fine Now
Self-healing received a hefty nerf last year and med-kits have became so much more addon reliant for multiple heals or healing speed. CoH, especially the previous version before the aura addition, would be completely fine. Given that CoH has the same self-healing speed as a med-kit.
Survivors need to walk over to the boon, usually outside of gens, wasting a reasonable amount of time (let’s say: 10 seconds minimum). Survivors would then need to heal a total of 24 seconds with self-healing speed, not including Mangled.
This would take a considerable amount of time out of doing gens like what most people do now. Currently, Resilience is common and staying injured is pretty common sense. Rushing gens is the play and it wouldn’t make sense to heal. You see a lot of Dead Hard too, and old MFT used to encourage this as well. CoH having the old self-heal ability wouldn’t be bad, it’ll actually incentivize healing rather than solely rushing gens.
Boons are in a sad state. Shadow Step is arguably the better of the boons yet Distortion already makes it redundant. And now that Illumination is looking completely underwhelming, it seems like people just want boons to disappear all together. Would Dark Theory having 3% be a problem like MFT? Would Exponential having some kind of secondary effect be an issue? Would Illumination showing survivor auras in blue be too strong? Seriously, I fail to see how any of this would be a problem now. Make them strong to justify their mechanics.
Comments
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Old CoH is one of the most broken perks in the game and should never have existed at all. You don't even need to have 1000+ hours to understand that whole team having free and endless resource due to one perk is stupid. It should be slower than current Self-care to be balanced with self healing.
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No
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Old CoH was released before the med-kit nerfs and self-healing nerfs. It’s already slower. We’re not talking about the nutty first initiation, we’re talking about the previous initiation which had considerable healing speed nerfs.
If you want it to be so finite so bad then the devs can call it a ‘healing event’ and limit it to 8 heals.
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Well at least you prefaced it by saying hot take
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Never would still be too soon.
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I don’t think some of you understand why COH before was too strong. It wasn’t the self heal speed necessarily, it was the fact that the perk benefits the whole team. All four survivors having access to this made it stupid.
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No, I'm pretty content with current CoH.
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Boons by design are to benefit the whole team no?
I’m not saying we plop back CoH untouched. I’m saying we can make self-healing work in some capacity and not keep the perk gutted like it is.
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Having Selfcare available to all four survivors for the cost of one perk slot out of 16, was broken.
It's nothing like the other Boons. Even Exponential on paper is "Unbreakable for all four survivors" but it's so highly situational and location reliant that it's not easily accessible. And when it is accessible, it's vulnerable.
But what does a survivor who needs to heal themselves always do? They run off to a safe spot across the map. CoH was far too efficient for a single perk that benefited the whole team. It was the only Boon that benefitted from being placed far, far away from where the killer would go.
It led to infinite healing loops, where you hit a survivor, they run off to a safe area away from all of your objectives, heal up, return, repeat.
The only way I see it coming back is with heavy restrictions. Something like adding "...also allows a survivor to heal themselves at 50% healing speed. In the event of a survivor recovering a health state by themselves, the totem is deactivated and must be reblessed."
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I wouldn’t mind to self heal again with coh I was disappointed to find out you couldn’t self heal
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Self-Healing with infinite uses to the entire team at the cost of 1 perk slot is overpowered.
The other boons are not strong enough to be an issue under these circumstances.
Hot take: Current CoH is perfectly fine and viable. I still use it in some of my builds and get good value from it.
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Nah, it was way too overpowered.
What they need to do is buff Self-Care back to meta levels, because that one affects one survivor. It is not one perk that affects the entire team like COH did.
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It's fine as it is.
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Same. It still wins some of my game as old CoH did. Nowhere near as much as old one, but anyway.
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I would love seeing it return!
Some ideas to bring it back and balance it:
After a certain number of self heals it needs to be blessed again.
Killers can damage boons, which needs to be repaired, before blessing it again.
Giving the boon blessing sound a direction, so killers know in which direction the boon is located.
Maybe giving the perk a cooldown after each self heal.
Post edited by jonifire on1 -
The problem with COH was you could self-heal the same speed as someone healing you. This is pretty big especially if the totem is placed somewhere away from the current gens or in an annoying spot for the killer to reach kind of takes away a lot of pressure compared to self-care which is super slow and medkits which heal once or twice typically. If it functioned like self-care with a super slow heal speed maybe.
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It led to infinite healing loops, where you hit a survivor, they run off to a safe area away from all of your objectives, heal up, return, repeat.
What is this era where no one ever finished a chase?
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I've been using CoH alot lately and actually think it's okay as it is now. I use a map and try and set it up near a gen, so injured survivors can still make themselves useful while they wait but my biggest frustration is how most just waste time standing in the aura until someone comes to heal them. So in that regard, I actually like the idea of Boon: Illuminate showing survivor auras. It would compliment CoH well in the sense that the survivor waiting will know if someone is coming to them, or if not then they can head to them instead.
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It was way too broken with the self-healing aspect and it was by far the best healing perk in the game. Nothing else even came close. Medkit healing speed is okay, but having healing speed similar to that an infinite number of times for the entire team was not ok, even if you had to go to the boon first. Medkits are only balanced because there’s a hard limit on how often they can be used.
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Thing is Boon should be a time risk for survivor, means it can be snuffed any time in chase. Coh can be away from Gen and live forever, making blessing time not risky.
I think at the current time that how weak Boons are, they need range buff. The strength Coh has now is fine.
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Like.... No.
Old Circle of Healing was like having infinite medkit for everyone in the match. It would bring back again the problem of losing pressure instantly after giving up a chase, making obligatory for killer to commit every chase until the end - which is not the best strategy in any game.
If boons were to change, i would change boons in a way they would be more of a disposable resource - like the pallets in the map - than having anything changed to old CoH again.
They could reduce boons setup speed by 40% (and reduce even further if you have more than one boon perk), but make it when the killer snuff it, the totem breaks (and make some changes to Shattered Hope too). This way, you could have a very strong effect inside an area quickly with fair counterplay for the killer.
I really like boons when playing survivor and think they are a very interesting mechanic, but if boons are to be a problem for the game again, i wish they remain forgotten.
Its not that no one finished a chase, but it was a time when you had to commit to any chase, because you could lose the pressure you gained from a hit very quickly if you gave up a survivor. Even when the survivor where leading you to the other side of the map or in a very strong loop.
Or, like the person you were answering said, you end up a in infinite healing loop if you a give up a chase - while the survivors do all the gens in the match and open the gate.
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After that nerf all my friends quit. I liked it, sure, often times I'd waste time running looking for a totem but it gave me something else to do. Now it's just generators.
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To be honest, I'd be Ok with it essentially giving either Botany Knowledge or Self Care depending on if you are healing yourself or a teammate. However, it shouldn't ever do both at the same time.
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1: I don't want to go back to the era of long DbD games. Killers lost Overbrine, losing CoH fits the way games work.
2: From a balance perspective I think killers overestimated CoH. Especially when it was on the other side of the map, being a survivor trying to break a 3 gen or rescue someone on hook and watching the others run to the other side of the map and then slowly heal was basically knowing the game was lost.
So I don't want to go back to it because I don't want to see the other survivors abandoning more important objectives to go heal, especially at slower rates.
3: I think some people are being silly worrying about the upcoming 3 gen change with the gens having charges. But if CoH was back with self heal, they'd have a much more legitimate concern.
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The final version before healing nerfs was a 50% bonus healing speed and self care totaling out to a 75% self heal speed, and a 21s heal which is nothing for something you could do infinitely gave to your teammates and could be used to heal someone else in 10.5s instead
Even if it was changed to have the self care penalty of being 35% heal speed with a 50% bonus so 32s self heal, it would be nutty because thats not loss in time efficiency and no item dedicated to healing for something your entire team could use
Even if on top of that it took 24s to heal instead of 16s (aka give it the medkit nerf) it would still only be a 48s heal which is still done spending 14s to give your entire team self care in a massive area for usually the entire match
It just shouldn't exist as a perk that give self healing in any form since its always just a powercreep on medkits and self care
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There isn't real counterplay to boons, especially old CoH. They put you between a rock and a hard place.
Do I go snuff the boon on the other side of the map with no gens, giving at least a gen worth of progress or do I continue staying on this side of the map in a battle of attrition that I will inevitably lose.
Even expo when used by a swf in end game does everything but get 4 people out. I have watched the most tense 15 min end game that would have been 5 had expo not been involved. But hurry go snuff expo so that they all get up and get out. Perks A tier at least, it just takes the right group of people and the right scenario to make it op just like UB.
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I'd already had two friends quit right around 6.1 because gens became a huge slog. We messed around and played drink on Friday nights, and one of the ones who quit played 'santa claude' with a chest items build. Basically the exact kind of players killers dream of, wasting time and not taking the game seriously.
The last one in our SWF burned out with the circle nerfs. They loved the totem part of the game, and used to cleanse 5/5 for NOED.
So basically the past year and a half of 'balance' changes has made the game so much more competitive that my party game group has left entirely.
And I feel like being able to self heal if you have a lit circle boon on the map is a necessary change.
Nearly everyone complains about the 'free heals' but it's a gigantic waste of time to save 4.5 seconds healing another teammate. If you have to walk more than 4 seconds to get to the boon, you're already losing time. And that doesn't include the 14-28 seconds to bless the thing in the first place. You'll likely never hit a point now where you break even, you *always* waste time using circle now.
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It is still 1 perk which gives infinite medkits to the entire team and would hurt quite a few killers still.
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1 perk to replace 4 medkits with infinite charges or 4 perks (Selfcare)....
Thats completley OP.
No...
Unless you agree that Noed should get the effects from Blood warden and no way out.
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Exactly; the healing speed were never the problem to begin with.... it was the fact that Survivor with just one single (Old) CoH perk on the team (SwF or not) can literally bring a powerful 5th perk slot for all survivors in the match and give the amazing ability to Self-Care without any negative penalties. Stack that with the medkits pre-nerf/self healing before the nerf; and survivors can literally get away with healing more efficiently and faster then if they get a teammate to come over to them and come heal them up.
Plus, the hidden benefit with the ability for every Survivor in the match with COH having the self care attribute; is that it literally made survivors more efficient in doing Generators, as they is no reason/incentives to heal your teammates and give the killer more time to apply map pressure (without that time sink into Straight up Aultristic Healing each other). Healing speeds or not, the ability to self care in general for all survivors in the match, just by one survivor alone bring this old boon perk on their loadout is too much of a Straight up advantage. It made SWF a nightmare to play agaisnt as killer, and it made solo que more bearable enough to simple not get kill easier. It also completely made "Hit and Run" play styles for killer invalidate and more useless, as if injured survivor gets away and runs to the boon COH to heal up; that is alot of time waste and the killer gets no value in that long chase. It also incentives killers to tunnel even more and camp; especially suspected Boon Survivor players; just so they can eliminate this perk from that match; or secure a kill in the most toxic and efficient way possible.
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Why did they release it like that only to change it? Same goes for the other perks too.
It gets past development but then gets nerfed to dog water. Why?
I can see a slight change, but going from fantastic to dog water takes some kinda talent.
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At least you understand it's a hot take.
CoH is mostly fine, maybe a slight numbers buff, but giving the entire team self-care but good isn't worth the nightmare of balancing it
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Circle of healing hurt low tier killers and encourages tunneling. If they leave sight they heal. As a Oni main it was the bane of my existence even on a A tier killer. I played only Blight and Plague for months because of that perk. It was OP and it deserved the nerf.
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