12 minutes of everything wrong with DBD

I think we're talking about SBMM as in 'SBMM vs. Ranks' and in that regard, yes, it's absolutely SBMM that's sucking the fun out of the game.

Like I said in another post, Ranks was an even more proper ranked SBMM system that what it is in the game right now, not differing much of what most of the hardcore competitive games do right now, and it was implemented directly into the game unlike the current SBMM which only works in the backend, so you could see your rank which would make you more inclined to tryhard to see it get higher.

For example, the ranking system in MTGA is almost the same, the only difference being it only counts wins to "pip" and loses to "depip" and when you reach what would be "Iri 1" in DbD you enter the "Top 500", which has a separate MMR system where you can literally be the number 1 of the game that season.

Now, I would ask you to explain your reasoning and logic behind your claim and how if Ranks were still in the game it would make it more fun somehow, but I don't want to debate your fallacies over and over yet again.

Designers don't always get it right. The successful ones acknowledge when they get it wrong, and make necessary changes.

Player feedback should be used to fine tune existing designs or identify when a design isn't working.

That's how I feel about it, anyway.

I like some of what you said. I disagree on a few points, but I find myself uninterest in diving into a debate, so I'm just writing to let you know I read your response and appreciate it. 👍️

1000%

You basically can have a survivor out-game a killer legitimately, but because BL exists and kicks in, most pallets won't matter after BL because by that point they are so fast they can easily go around and get a hit.

What I see wrong with DBD is the game getting rid of its Golden Age and changing directions completely, something that is connected to all four notes you've mentioned.

Does anyone even remember the original map adjustments? Before the maps were ruined? Yeah, that was the first issue already fixed.

SBMM should be scrapped. Period.

As for the anti-loop killers, we have far too many of them, specifically those who aren't well designed. Huntress and Pyramid Head are good killers and their powers can be used in chases, but they aren't "leave loop and hold W" the way killers like Artist or Xenomorph are.

And the last note is a problem that fixes itself, if the game happens to be in a good spot.

There is a reason why many players say 2019 DBD was the best there ever was. We had a good thing going, but now we suddenly... don't? It doesn't add up.

There is a reason why many players say 2019 DBD was the best there ever was. We had a good thing going, but now we suddenly... don't? It doesn't add up.

I'm on the other side of this. I played the game when it came out, didn't care for it. I gave it another shot when Deathgarden was out, because I really loved that game, again didn't care for it. Came back and tried it mid 2022 and have been playing it pretty much every day since.

Okay, different players like different things, that isn't that strange. Except when these issues come up we have numbers. DbD didn't really explode until mid 2021. COVID accounts for some of the change, that's why it increased during March 2020, but the explosion didn't happen until later.

Put simply, looking at the numbers, more people like the game that DbD became then what it was. Nothing wrong with being outside the group, but there's a reason BHVR has gone in the direction they have.

With you? After the "interactions" we had till now in other posts? Nah. The day I see you not discuss by cherry picking, twisting logic and using fallacies maybe I would try to be a little more civil in our "debates".

First: "Now, the way SBMM is implemented in DbD, that's a point worth discussing." It's not like I didn't already addressed that the way BHVR implemented an SBMM to DbD "leaves much to be desired".

Second: Fun fact, there is nothing preventing BHVR from refactoring the SBMM to work exactly like Ranks did but instead of pips making it add or subtract points from a rating used for both ranking and match-making. Nothing. In other words and using your logic, you can make an SBMM that rewards "fun" too.

You should learn what SBMM and Skill Based Ranking really is, so you don't make the error of thinking that "Taking in count every action that happen inside a match" is something exclusive of one system in particular.

But then, even using your logic, they implementing an SBMM is not what "sucked the fun out of the game" (somehow), but the way BHVR implemented the SBMM was. So, you are agreeing with me, right?

Also, the only problem with your logic (surprisingly, you are being almost coherent with your argument this time and I can only maybe point out an ambiguity of language fallacy... I'm so proud of you) is that you didn't even explained how the change to the SBMM somehow "sucked out the fun of the game". Because even following your logic of "the old system rewarded fun", that system is still in the game in form of Grades, which is completely visible and up front in it with the SBMM being hided and only affecting match making, meaning that like I said, most people even today doesn't even know it is a thing.

Like I said in another post: "The question here is how something that only works in the backend, is not mention in game once, most people even today doesn't know is a thing and doesn't affect gameplay at all can have that effect in the playerbase. The reasonable answer here is: It doesn't, and never did."

Depends on what your terminology is.

I'm just saying that the terminology you are using is not what most of the folks around here are using, nor what was used in the video.

It's an issue with match quality. Before SBMM, iridescent had slightly better match quality where you could expect your teammates to have a generally healthy understanding of the game and a drive to experience the full breadth. Even killer players would be somewhat less likely to camp at those higher ranks because camping gets you de-pipped.

The issue is with how the matchmaking sorts players out. If you win, you get rewarded with sweatier opponents and teammates. Losing, on the killer end, isn't that big of a deal in the matchmaking since you're more likely to get worse opponents, but on the survivor end, that translates to worse teammates.

Think of it this way: you're a nice killer. You don't camp, tunnel, slug, any of that. Under SBMM, every time you get more than two kills in a match, your MMR goes up, meaning you're more likely to be pitted against survivors with higher escape rates. However, how these survivors hit that escape rate is undefined. As you go up in MMR, then, you're more likely to get sorted against players that genrush their behinds off. As your competence rises, you're therefor more likely to get dissatisfying matches.

Conversely, under the ranks system, your playstyle will likely push you to iridescent faster, but the survivors you get at that rank will, themselves, be iridescent as well. Which means they've developed broader playstyles, as that is what is required to keep pipping all the way up into iridescent rank. Iri survivors are more likely to be altruistic, to take chases, to do a totem or two and generally spread out their gameplay.

SBMM sorts only by success rate. Ranks sorts by breadth of gameplay. Under SBMM, a competent player that wants to have a broad experience will get matched against sweats. Under Ranks, those that want a broader experience will get matched with others with similar gameplay goals.

With that in mind, as an added theory: Bad manners are contagious, and in much the same vein, there's a suggestion that 'nasty' killers create bully squads which create more 'nasty' killers, which create more bully squads, etc. So by sorting competent 'nice' players against 'nasty' players, it's well possible that the nastiness spreads faster.

When it is not even integrated in the in-game ranking system in any way or form and only used in the backend for matchmaking? Like I said, I don't think so. In fact, using your logic, you can argue that the Bloodpoint system also promote a tryhard playstyle to get the most BP possible in every game.

No, not at all. Those who want to play chill / for fun / meme would not mind of winning or losing in the first place, so they would do it regardless of whatever ranked system is in the game.

Like I said, the game becoming more "tryhard", which in reality is just people playing to win, it's the normal and natural evolution of any competitive PvP game where you play against other players. Like I discussed in another post, even in true casual games like Fall Guys there are people that would try hard to win. It's just how it is.

We can get to the old days of online gaming to get even a bigger picture of this. In games like CoD:MW2 there wasn't a proper ranking system, only a prestige system that was basically a leveling system most like DbD also have. Nobody cared about how the game did matchmaking and you normally got paired with people with much higher or lower prestige than you. People still played to win, people still got salty and you still had your toxic behavior over the forced lobby voice chat the game had.

The same could be said about TF2. You could maybe see a conga form at the start of the game from nowhere when they added dancing, one that even enemies would get into, but after the initial laugh it's back to win the match. And when I played, there wasn't any kind of ranking system in the game. Even in Overwatch unraked modes this kind of thing happened. The difference is that in OW, if someone got too mad at you for not playing as a high ranking pro player, you can always told them "politely" to go play ranked.

In fact, do you know who are the ones that had told me "You should try to have fun for once and stop tryharding" after a match in DbD? Bully squads. Yep. The same ones that bring 4 DH, 3 Saboteur, 3 Unbreakable, 3 DS / OTR, FTP + Buckle Up, 2 flashlights and 2 gigaboxes with BNP and pretend to win by not letting me do absolutely anything are the same ones that when you don't let them get away with it start to say that you are boring and should play for fun more. The irony charts get through the roof.

So again, no, don't having a ranking system would not make a competitive PvP game where you play against strangers any more chill, as it's by design that people would play it to win and sooner or later most people will. Having a ranking system in the game (not to be confused with a skill based match making system, by the way), more so if having an high rank could lead to potential money in form of tournaments and such, only accelerates it.

EDIT:

It could have being because many factors, starting with retention rates (meaning, not every single new player that started playing the game would keep playing it after a period of time) and, like you said, perfectly the reasons mentioned in the video. I just don't think that SBMM had anything to do with that either, less so taking in count that again, a new player won't even know that the SBMM is even a thing.