A potentially balanced way to combat early game tunneling.

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Lmac99
Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
edited January 21 in Feedback and Suggestions

I understand that this may be a hard suggestion to take lightly but please read everything and understand this is just a potential way to solve a real issue that is making games very miserable for a ton of people consistently. There needs to be some sort of change, this is my suggestion:

I want to post here a way to add a balanced non-abusable version of Decisive Strike as basekit. This would be the 5 second DS not the 3 second version.

First, just for fun and for an immersive experience, there would be a new animation added. Every hook on every map would have removable spikes just above where Survivors can reach. Once hooked and after screaming, your character would reach above their head and grab a spike from the hook and keep it on their person.

Once a survivor is unhooked, Base DS activates and has no timer. If a killer goes for you, downs you, and picks you up, you will automatically stab them with the spike and get off their shoulder stunning them for 5 seconds. This can occur up to 2 times, for both hook states.

Base DS DEACTIVATES from the following:

  1. Getting fully healed either by yourself or another player.
  2. Repairing a generator, healing, or booning/cleansing a totem.
  3. Sabotaging a hook, and blinding or pallet stunning the Killer to save another Survivor.
  4. After another Survivor is hooked, as long as you are not currently hooked.
  5. After getting picked up, or picking yourself up from the Dying State.
  6. Getting grabbed out of a locker.

Base DS is permanently deactivated for all players after 2 generators have been completed.

So every player will have some form of defense from getting tunneled for both hook states. They will not be able to abuse it or stall the game out due to losing it from getting picked up, grabbed from a locker, or losing it from someone else who got hooked after. You can't heal yourself or others. You can't do gens, totems, or boons. You can't sabo, flashlight, or pallet save. You become useless if you want to force the killer to eat a DS. Even if you bodyblock the Killer for someone else, you will just go down. The killer has no reason to pick you up, they have many resources at their disposal to just leave you on the ground and find/go for someone else. Killers have no need to tunnel early game, and still have the ability to tunnel mid to late game as DS deactivates for everyone at 3 gens left.

The effect needs to be removed at some point in the game before endgame because tunneling still has its place to allow killers to comeback or needed to win the game. Tunneling feels really miserable for both new and seasoned players alike and it's completely unnecessary for killers to do early on in the game. After a certain point, a Killer needs a Kill so this would give them that chance and it would make it fair.

Thanks for reading, please consider some way to combat early game tunneling without adding just a Perk Band-Aid fix. If not this, then something that is in the base-kit for Survivors.

Post edited by Lmac99 on

Comments

  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
    edited January 18
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    Survivors have 1 basekit perk, and it was definitely necessary.

    Post edited by Lmac99 on
  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
    edited January 18
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    Post edited by Lmac99 on
  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
    edited January 18
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    The idea is super fair for both sides but nah survivor basekit BAD

    Post edited by Lmac99 on
  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
    edited January 18
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    Survivors have 1 basekit perk. There needs to be SOMETHING in the game that combats early tunneling. I even said this post doesn't have to be what they do but there has to be something. Instead of the Perk Band-aid fix that is DS which 90% of the time does nothing because it only gives survivors 2 secs to get away.

    You read the whole thing and your only take away was that it would be bad if survivors had more than one basekit perk, like I don't understand.

    Post edited by Lmac99 on
  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
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    Regular DS does nothing most of the time regardless of the "surprise" aspect. And there is literally a way to make it to where survivors can't abuse it. I posted that exact way, no survivor can "make it so". If they do they are trolling because they wouldn't be on gens or totems. And there is no way every survivor could have DS because you lose it if someone else gets hooked. This DS specifically makes it to where people can't just be tunneled for free in the early game.

    There's nothing to "keep in mind", just to go for another person... It's 100% the killers fault if he gets DS'd because he tunneled. And I feel like no one reads the "Base DS is permanently deactivated for all players after 2 generators have been completed." Because I understand that tunneling has its place. No one is saying how it's bad, they just say "it's bad" and move on. I don't know what you're talking about with the mocking thing either.

  • Nos37
    Nos37 Member Posts: 4,064
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    If this were tested in a Public Test Build, the requirement for disabling it would have to be more than just 3 gens completed. It would also need a time requirement as well; say... 240 seconds.

    Otherwise, there's nothing stopping a coordinated group from getting 5 gens to 99% without completing more than 3. They keep the killer stalled by purposfully getting tunneled or bodyblocking for others. The gens can only be regressed so many times, so they will eventually be stuck at 99% and the killer can do nothing about it. When everyone's in a good spot they pop all 5 gens back to back.

  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
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    A time requirement would probably be needed, true. But that scenario you're talking about would probably not happen often enough to be an issue but I can see where you're coming from. Maybe make it to where it deactivates if the DS Survivor takes a hit after for someone else after basekit BT has worn off. I edited the post, but yeah it should probably deactivate after 2 gens completed instead of 3.

    We just need something for early game tunneling, especially for newer players. I play with friends that have 50 hours or less and they have a miserable time most nights because they get hard tunneled at 5 gens in 1 out of every 3 games. Pls BHVR, pls.

  • Chiky
    Chiky Member Posts: 647
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  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,538
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    Respectfully I don’t agree with this idea.

  • LazyClown
    LazyClown Member Posts: 171
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  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
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    It's impossible to abuse it, the survivor would literally be useless and even if they try to "force you" to tunnel you just down them for more pressure and find someone else. If they get picked up, they lose DS. If someone else gets hooked they lose DS, teams can't abuse it. Read every stipulation that deactivates it then try to think of a way to abuse it. Just don't tunnel for the first 2 gens, you don't need to go back to hook at all, there's always going to be people at gens. Even so, half the killers don't get too affected by 5 second DS, but it would always kill just a bit more time.

  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
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    Please tell me how this would kill the game in detail? It's not like they get original DS that lasts all game and for both hook states. You can't honestly tell me you read any this post except the title. I feel like I'm going crazy, am I the only one who plays solo queue and have my teammates get hard tunneled out at 5-4 gens in 50% of my games? I sometimes play with friends of under 100 hours and we can't get much done because killers force them to learn nothing and earn no BP because they want to win too much or make people miserable.

  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
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    Can you elaborate as to why? Or can you advocate for something that would combat early game tunneling?

  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
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    They were designed to be that way, you can design a foolproof way to add a balanced base-kit DS. The post explains in detail how. There is also a way to design something that would make playing survivor less miserable against those killers who only wish to make other players miserable. Also that list all got changed because they needed to be changed, just like early game tunneling needs to be changed.

  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
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    Hey remember why I responded to you saying there is only 1 basekit survivor perk? You never really addressed that...

  • Lmac99
    Lmac99 Member Posts: 69
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    There's no end to the misery that is killers hard tunneling out low hour survivors for a free win for like 50% of matches. Then there's the bleeding people out too, do you advocate for that too?

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 4,909
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    I feel this would lead to slugging as a way to counteract, which is a fairly unenjoyable experience if the Survivor hasn't brought a Perk such as Unbreakable or Soul Guard. Regardless, the Killer can still hit some heavy pressure.

    I'd propose something like extending the Borrowed Time effect to 30 seconds, but either have that effect cancel if the Survivor does a conspicuous action, or remove the Survivor's ability to do any conspicuous action at all for the duration of 30 seconds. This would mean the Killer would be wasting even more timein a chase, give the Survival ample time to get to safety, yet also make sure the Survivor cannot get straight back into the fight so the Killer doesn't become too overwhelmed.

    You can only deter a Killer from tunnelling so much until the balance is too oppressive. Likewise, Survivors need to learn to not unhook under the Killer's nose , unless as a last resort.

  • MrDrMedicman
    MrDrMedicman Member Posts: 303
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    If you think this is balanced by any metric, you're delusional

    All this is, is old decisive strike, but more abusable. Unhooked survivors are just going to tank hits because they can. Giving their friend a free run at zero cost

  • pigslittlepet
    pigslittlepet Member Posts: 432
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    Anymore? I advocate whatever inflicts the most pain and suffering for whichever side I'm not currently playing. My merciful and nice side died not to long ago and I am now proudly part of the problem.