Alternative paths to victory

The 0 hook moris I didn't get to experience, but the 1 hook moris weren't that bad. There was a certain fear they provided, an apprehension: because if you got caught again, you were dead. Fitting for a game where you should fear the killer.

Well, at least in my experience. But I know they weren't for everyone. Some just found them annoying.

No thanks. Keys with old hatch rules were super stupid.

Yeah 4 man hatch escapes were so fair. /s

Well especially now with hatch offerings they should never come back to the game, key + offering can already be right now a decently easy escape now imagine if 2-3 people got out that way instead

Hatch, some of the recent perks BHVR has somehow thought were good for the game, and killers having literal free reign to do whatever they choose have contributed to the state of the game atm.

Bringing back old hatch, while I think would bring more than welcome chaos as well, probably will have a negative impact on the game as a whole. Few years ago, it might have been alright tbh. But things have had time to settle inside this 'hatchless' existence where an offering is brought as a 'just in case' or as someone's 'Plan A'. Removing it as they have done removes a lot of match worry/anxiety/etc, things that help make dbd feel like a horror game. Just completely gutted.

MFT, Old DH, UW, etc. These perks have caused issues and such and for good reason. Major power swings in a match come from just one of these, and it was clearly unacceptable lol. Still it provided ways to flip flop the 'current winner' of a match constantly. It was never really certain who was going to win, because DH was always in play and could make chases incredible. Old DS made plays. Same for killers, old Ruin, old etc etc.

Point is all these old things that had major impacts on the matches are just going away. Now people give up after a few minutes because 'its clear who's gonna win.' From my experience, it didn't happen a lot back then. Games played out.

Finally, with killer having freedom as it has always been, they have created a meta of tunneling and camping to the point BHVR has to actively fight against those playstyles.... without getting rid of those playstyles. Its a lose/lose of BHVR imo. This isnt something they will ever please everyone with.

But these things have changes, added, or removed alternative win cons. See any patterns? lol

(Im at work and bored out of my damn mind. Sorry!)

As terrible as keys were there are some things I miss about them, mainly when keys were good plunder builds were actually viable. You could play like normal and if the match went badly start plundering and have a decent chance of finding a key and start looking for hatch, it truly felt like an alternative objective and it was fun.

What we have now but part of me still wonders if some middle ground isn't possible and hatch can spawn at two survivors closed and open at one survivor left. Although you'd probably have to get rid of blueprints in that scenario and they'd never do that.

It got removed because the player base is soft like Charmin. No surprise that there's been a continual dumbing down of gameplay.

I do think hatch should be reworked again but it should be something else entirely. Something like a side objective that is almost as difficult (but in a different way) as gens. So basically another game mode/alternative win conditions that aren't just a 'gimme'.

This kind of rework won't happen though. It takes these devs years to make simple U.I. changes.

I would have switched to Spirit and popped an Ebony or Green Mori as soon as the key was in the lobby so I wouldn't have to worry about that exact scenario happening due to the killer choosing to be underprepared by bringing a pen to a gunfight. Not act like I was owed something because golly gee I almost had them. Don't see it, but afraid someone might last second switch? Okay, equip the Mori before loading in.

It was not, it was terrible in every way imaginable

Old Keys/Hatch and Old/New Moris are different. But both share a core issue.

Old Keys/Hatch provided a new victory condition: bring an item to an unknown point after a given threshold. It has its own distinct gameplay of scouring the map for Hatch, as well as potentially being sourced from the Trial itself via Searching Chests for Keys.

Its activation conditions meant that it could be used to at minimum to bypass the Exit Gate, with 1 Survivor dead it could skip the last Gen, with 2 dead it could bypass the last 2 Gens. It also bypasses the patrol pressure Killers apply on Generators while Survivors look for Hatch. By being an item, the Killer could interrupt its use.

Moris don't provide an additional victory condition, it accelerates the existing one (Kill Survivors). It does not have distinct gameplay, though it does have distinct visuals. It also cannot be sourced from the Trial itself (only through an offering).

Mori's flat out lower the survivor Kill threshold and are immutable.

The shared problem with both Keys/Hatch and Moris is that they are the shortest path to victory. That is not an alternate path to victory, that is the main path to victory that players will pivot to optimize towards.

I do think that alternate paths to victory can work. However they need to be balanced against other methods.

For Moris there is a fundamental flaw with their implementation: A flat lower Kill threshold is applicable to all styles of gameplay. The path of least resistance would be to use Moris in conjunction with whatever meta strategy exists, in this case, "Tunneling". Moris also have an issue as an alternate victory path given that they restrict user choice of Offering: if they become equal to tunneling or surpass it, then gameplay variety relies on reducing Offering choice, or becomes mandatory for meta play.

For Keys/Hatch, it's more problematic. Tying a distinct victory condition to an Item also brings that Item way out of line with the rest of the Item roster. Keys/Hatch suffer the same design problem with Moris in that they apply ontop of whatever meta strategy exists for completing Gens the fastest. Keys/Hatch also have the issue in that they eschew Killer patrolling. All 4 Survivors may not share the same goal, which may cause logistic issues if Key/Hatch is made too distinct from Generators. Given the asymmetric nature of individual victory between Survivors and Killer, this alternate path must scale with players attempting it, and tying it exclusively to generators would also retain an issue that has arisen with the removal of Keys/Hatch:

You still have the problem where everything stops when there are two survivors left, who might otherwise have been scouring the map for a Key, who are now waiting for the other to die (or being slugged). As a result of the Killer having the advantage in this scenario when it comes the survivors reduced split pressure.

If I were to give my two cents on reintroducing these alternate victory paths, I'd do the following:

For Mori's - require Hooks on non-consecutive Survivors (to separate from tunneling), remove Hook requirements for Moris once the non-consecutive Survivor Hook threshold is reached, EG: after reaching 8 distinct Hooks you may Kill all Survivors by your Hand.

For Keys/Hatch - No Key requirement or Interaction (remove the Item issue). Make the Hatch visible from the start of the Trial (give Killer the chance to find and add it to their Patrol route when it becomes prominent). When a Survivor is Sacrificed/Killed a Haunt will spawn in the Trial. A player picking up a Haunt is empowered with the Void: Killer becomes undetectable for a duration, survivors lose scratch marks for a duration. Multiple Haunts can be collected at once, each refreshing the duration of the effect and counting as an extra stack. All Haunts must have dissipated before they respawn after a delay. While empowered, Survivors can interact with The Hatch to infuse the Haunt into it. Once two Haunts have been deposited, a global audio cue plays. Once three have been deposited, the Hatch opens. The Killer can Kick the Hatch to disperse all charges or close it.

These Haunts promote roaming the map for both sides. The limitation on spawned Haunts will only allow up to 2 charges to be deposited while 2 Survivors are alive, but The Hatch signaling itself as a threat when those charges are deposited can help move the Killer around so the other Survivor can try to work on a Gen while the Killer goes to kick it, with the Killer being able to try to collect Haunts to Empower themselves and prevent Survivors from using the Hatch. The Hatch is also useless when all 4 Survivors are alive.

Though this is probably much more prone to error that the Mori suggestion.

Thats why I see it in every game. /s

But yeah, maybe something like this should exists for Killers so that they dont mindgame themselves at Shack...

old hatch? hahahahahah no. good take.