Remove ability for survivors to kill themselves on hook
I normally play killer, but when I do play survivor in solo queue, it seems at east one survivor purposely kills themselves on hook at least once every 5 games, and I even notice this to a lesser degree wen I'm playing as killer. This obviously means the game becomes at least 95% killer sided.
The truth is, the mechanics which allow the survivor to kill themselves are so unnecessary in the first place, and do not add much (if any) value to the game.
1st hook stage
The ability to try for a 4% should be removed from general gameplay. Perhaps if every other survivor is either on hook, in the dying state, being carried, or dead, then perhaps the 4% unhooking chance could activate then. But at any other stage, it is so unnecessary.
2nd hook stage
The skill checks are so easy to hit that you can only really miss them if you deliberately miss them (maybe the last few are slightly tricky for beginners). But being that easy, it doesn't seem necessary, especially as 2 of these missed skill checks result in instant death.
Survivors on hook should just be made to wait it out until they are saved. And if the survivor wants to leave the game, they should just quit and let a bot take over.
I do understand that if there are two survivors are left and one is on hook, the hooked survivor might want to kill themselves quickly to allow the survivor being chased to get hatch, so in the instance where there are only 2 survivors left, the hooked survivor can choose to just kill themselves to help the chased survivor.
Comments
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And what will stop this survivor run to killer and die anyway?
If they want to leave, they will. There is no power will keep them in game.
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@ChrissyG88 YES, said this for years! Would love these changes for solo Q. Also BHVR should remember how all this negates their stats. Luck offerings would need a rework, perks like Deli or Slippery Meat could stay.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon The difference is 1 or 2 extra minutes on the hook for the other survivors. Just think about how it sucks when you run full map for an unhook just to see the hooked surv let go.
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This notion is just false. I'm tired of seeing the ol "you can't make people play the game"
If people can't freely leave the will eventually opt to try and play it out instead of just do nothing. I know it's the dbd community and there's nothing to expect from them as people but if they can't just get out instantly then they would just waste a bunch of time trying to go next. Any real person would continue forward.
League is the so called "most toxic player base" but You can't flame much and you can't leave at all. You would be surprised to know that I very rarely get people trolling because of that fact.
All these dbd vets are just making excuses about this subject.
Play the game, it's not so miserable that you need to leave when the average game lasts 10 min max. Even if you find it so miserable you need to leave the game there is essentially two free dcs a day.
There are so many options to stop this never ending cycle of tilt which is caused by the ability to dc for free on the survivor side. If in my first survivor game someone dcs another player will be mad, if it happens again they will follow suit to not waste their own time. All this system does is cause a self-perpetuating cycle of tilt which does far more damage than anyone here comprehends.
Whatis a lot harder to do is to make people be efficient. One person who refuses to help out on the survivor side means they lose and I really don't know what to do about that besides add a bp counter per min starting after 2 min into the game that you must adhere to. Remove bp from cleansing totems(not hexs) and opening chests, anyone who's not actively in chase will be on a timer to actually progress the game or get a penalty. Remove noed if you want so there is no argument against it, I don't care.
You can stop this non-sense. Unless you abuse it your self there is no reason to defend it. It can be dealt with and for the longevity and the playability of the game I hope these changes get implemented in someway at some point.
It's truly sad the devs or at least some who post on the forums believe they can't make a difference in this regard. A true pity.
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No
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This isn’t true. People cannot be made to participate in an *online video game*. They will find their way out, they will not suddenly become great contributors to the game. Did that even sound reasonable coming out of your mind?
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I never DC or kill myself on the hook. However, i can understand why they do it. Dead by Daylight became often times very frustrating for survivors, especially for solo players.
Instead of using all the available braincells on how to deny survivors the surrender option, why not puting the energy into making the game fun for survivors again? Mass suiciding survivors may be a strong indicator that the game is not fun for them anymore?
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Rewards are better than punishments. Why not buff hatch and keys to gives survivors a second hope to remain motivated? Or buff survivors in general?
It's a video game that is supposed to be fun. DC penalty causes more harm than good.
It gives the killer free reign to grief survivors. Killers can take advantage of this. The killer has a substantial ability to grief.
If players knew they had to be sportsmanlike to keep their opponents in the match, it will be so much better.
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Or just make it reportable. An actual person can determine whether or not a person is killing themselves to throw or to give hatch
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no need to remove the 4%.
just remove the 4% attempts killing you.
I see that as potentially abusable...
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Instead of using all the available braincells on how to deny survivors the surrender option, why not puting the energy into making the game fun for survivors again?
This.
Well said, friend.
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Begs the question though...
What makes the game unfun for survivors right now?
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^ this.
Been saying this for years.
You will not remove all instances of Survivors trying to get out of a match early. This is impossible, some people will just ragequit if they are downed first. But if for example we see that Survivors still suicide or DC against Skull Merchant and it is way more than usual, then you need to look at Skull Merchant.
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My guess?
Tunneling being easier and stronger than ever and several maps being awful.
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Or how about removing dc penalty so if someone quits a bot can take over
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Terrible map reworks which created big dead zones.
Tunnelling is so easy.
Gen regression perks are stacking and so strong on several killers.
Dull Merchant.
Bad matchmaking which makes you match with survivors who is doing nothing.
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Overpowered killers.
Less interactive killers.
Anti Loop killers.
Free hit killers like Knight, Skull Merchant and others.
Tunneling and proxycamping killers.
Stale Meta.
Tryhard sweats everywhere.
Terrible maps with no recources (Just counted 8 Pallets on a Coldwind map, seriously?)
Because of these reasons and probably many more, survivors may DC very quickly. And because of that, the other teammates become frustrated and might give up early aswell. It is obviously a vicous circle that can only be fixed by fixing the game. Any more penalty will just make them uninstall the game, thats it.
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Thanks for the reminder, my friend.
The existence of MMR is also a problem.
Skull Merchant is the only thing in the list I disagree with, because in my recent games against her no one gave up.
But everything else? Yeah, those are the reasons why the game is unfun for survivors right now.
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Being unhooked and immediately running to the killer still takes time. It still benefits the team for the killer to have to re-hook them.
Apply that to every other argument trying to support throwers (and doing so with angry insults, for some reason?)
There is no universe where giving someone options to make THROWING THE GAME more convenient (at the very moment they're most likely to want to) is going to be worth the 0.00001% of the time I'd get a benefit from it.
It's simple math. I track the outcome of every match I play, and the people claiming throwers every 1/5 aren't far off from my numbers. If you agree that is a bad time, and it's worth making changes to address bad times, then how is that ratio not the lowest of low-hanging fruit?????? Every change involves a cost/benefit analysis but <gestures towards extremely lopsided numbers>
why not puting the energy into making the game fun for survivors again?
True, if someone were to develop a game that no one ever got frustrated with, this wouldn't be an issue. Good observation.
I mean, we'd also have to live in a world where trolls didn't exist and wouldn't exploit a big gaping hole in the fun-o-sphere like that. THEN I could totally understand not doing anything about it.
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So soloq basicly?
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Solo Queue will always suffer more, unfortunately, but SWF still has to deal with the first three items of their list.
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Isnt every killer a anti loop killer in some way?
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Not really.
I am sure this list is annoying for SWF teams too but at least playing with friends make those more tolerable.
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Thats what i meant
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It probably depends on how you define anti-loop.
For me, anti loop is defined by the term anti loop itself. You cant loop the killer and the correct play would be to drop the pallet / leave the loop right away.
In other words. A very minimalistic killer interaction.
Notice that i have also added Free Hit killers. They are a step further. You can not even stay at a tile, droping the pallet /breaking LOS wont help, you get hit over time, no matter what. Everything is in the hand of the killer and RNG.
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Not to the extend of soloq.
Tunneling is most effective if the map is good for the killer (tunneled survivor is hooked in unfavourable spot on the map), the survivor is not playing at their best, the team does not see the steps necessary to help (bodyblock ONLY WHEN NECESSARY, doing gens asap).
Strong gen regression (pain res and pop) is currently based around killer progression. If the survivors in a swf call out the position of the killer, pre run, pre drop and stick to gens like glue, the moment the killer leaves them, the killer wont progress that fast. Therefore not getting their strong slowdown.
Am i missing something? Both of these problems are a lot less impactful if voice comms are in play.
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I see anti - loop as anything that helps to make looping less effective against killers. Same as when you have a big, chubby, no-grass-touching DBD nerd in your basement. You use anti - insect - spray to make them less effective.
Every killer other than Legion in their second phase of chase has something like that.
Some are more oppressive, yes. That much is true. But that doesnt make the fact go away, that killer like Nemesis, Xenomorph, Pig and even Sadako have anti - loop build into their kit.
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But that is exactly what I said. SWF still has to deal with those things, but Solo suffers more.
I am afraid I don't get your point here.
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My point is, that most of the problems, that make the game so unfun for certain people, that they quit, is connected to soloq.
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Not really.
You asked what makes game unfun for survivors. Everything i mentioned makes game unfun for SWF teams too. But at least they can't suffer with bad matchmaking.
Tunnelling is still strong, does not matter if you are SWF or Solo.
Dead zones are problem for SWF teams too.
Dull Merchant hated by SWFs as well.
Strong anti-gen meta is problem for SWFs too. Anti-gen perks are fine for low to mid killers tho but when killers like Xeno, Wesker, Chucky, Plague etc. using multiple of them, then it's problem. And i don't even need to mention Spirit, Nurse and Blight because anti-gen meta is even more problematic on those killers.
BHVR is nerfing maps and buffing perks for weak killers but then we have those killers who does not need so much help but here we are with new problems.
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I already commented on this above. Many problems you mention are way less bad when voice comms are in play.
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And i just disagree with that. Tunnelling, strong anti-gen on strong killers, dead zones are problem for SWF teams too. It does not matter if you are SWF or Solo, those things will suffer you.
The only thing SWF teams does not suffer is matchmaking. That's all.
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Being on comms doesn't fix the problem. Yes, maybe you can coordinate a better save against that one Wesker that tunnels at 5 gens, but it still won't be enjoyable.
Even if I play with friends, it isn't fun to deal with Coldwind's deadzones, nor MacMillan's new tiles and worse layouts.
A full squad can avoid the problems of MMR, but everything else is there. SoloQ suffers more because it always does, but SWFs aren't immune to it, my friend.
Issues that affect the survivor side affects all survivors.
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It’s so interesting to watch you debunk Radianthero’s argument that comms are this magical bullet that just totally renders survivors immune to the drawbacks of playing survivor. Like it’s surreal anyone thinks that but it’s really the mindset of a lot of killer mains here.
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Absolutely not. You can't force a player to stay in a game that doesn't want to for whatever reason.
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Please this. People get their free DC way more than they try to actually clutch up a game.
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It's funny how every single killer player doesn't like when the game starts and a gen pops in like 1 minute
But nobody talks about how a Nurse can use Lethal Pursuer to down a survivor in 30 seconds
Then people are forced to stay in the game? Give me a break
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Wait until her, Blight, Hillbilly uses the new Grim Embrace perk too. Gens will never get done.
It's very bad when survivors do a gen but it's ok for killers to decimate just because they know the killer.
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from my experience playing against lethal pursuer nurse if someone gets downed in the first like 15 or 20 seconds because of it we just give up
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If survivors are at a situation where 5 Gens can not be done, means 2nd survivor can not escape but only for the 1st survivor through the hatch. Survivors will give up.
A survivor dies before 3rd Gen done. I will stand next to a hook, tab out and draw. Sure its survivors' mistake and we should lose, but just let me lose now and move on.
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Yes
Experienced players have this "ability" to know whether a game is worth still playing or not
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Yup. Lethal Pursuer + Grim Embrace + BBQ and Chilli on high traversal killers... ggs
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Yep, I experience it quite literally daily in league! You can leave just feel free to taste the intended punishment for ruining that game single handedly.
edit: Best people can do is soft troll in league and even that will lead to repercussions quick. It's not even an opinion, it's literally fact, league forces people to play to a valid extent or not at all. That is just the truth, there is no argument to be had here. Run it down twice? 14 days. Leave the game twice? 14 days. Do it again? A month. Your stats reflect soft trolling while factoring in score + chat? 14 days.
I watch people tilted out of their mind in every way still farm and show up to fights at the very least. No one is sitting in base or leaving the game once out of 100 games.
So again, you can always leave, troll, give up or whatever else you can think of but be quickly prepared to be on a forced leave followed by probation.
In this 10 min long game the only thing so miserable is that your teamates can ruin it for you without punishment.
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I play mostly survivor these days and my opinion that I initially stated is mostly from that pov. I don't have some killer sided biased around this argument. I don't care about bp, I just want a real game on both sides.
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True but you do both. You remove the option and address the problems, it doesn't have to be one. There isn't a single valid reason survivors should get to nullify the penalty set for both sides.
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Literally everyone on both sides including nurse mains talk about this, I have no clue where you are pulling that second line from. Nurse is extremely problematic by design and all but nerfing her into the gutter will be for nothing. Everyone knows that. People that don't agree can have their opinions be considered null.
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Nope, I'm a veteran. A highly ranked one in all the games I play at that. If you remove all the options to troll people will play, 12k+ hours of experience vs your whatever statement. Do you afk and get suspended? Do you troll and get suspended? Do you be toxic in chat and be suspended? Do you leave literally twice in 3 months in be suspended? League has no place for you. Literally a top 5 biggest online multiplayer game at least and by far the biggest e sports scene. It's what happens when people actually know what they could potentially get into before they hit the play button.
You have likely never played a real pvp comp game in your life, dbd doesn't count. The playerbase is nothing to brag about even at the highest levels.
After reading the rest of your replies I know you have truly never been adept and you are just spouting due to dbd corruption.
I will reiterate, I am right that they should remove the ability to leave the game for free but that doesn't mean they shouldn't address major issues such a tunneling killing the fun of 90% of survivors.
Try again buddy.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Wow... Thanks. Thats comment feels good @Ayodam .
If you want to make this a "hey, lets look at this dirty killer main, he thinks SWF is the solution to all survivors problems. He cant be real!" - thing, then im sorry to dissapoint you. I play a good amount of soloq and killer both. Just because i have a certain opinion about the game doesnt degrade me in comparison to other players or people here on the forum and also does not make it ok to gang up on me. If this is the level, we are going to, ill stop arguing with you. I have no intention of taking part in a discussion with someone that supports this kind of behaviour. Even if i respect their opinion. Sorry not sorry. Really hope, i took that statement the wrong way.
What i meant is, that SWF communication helps out in thses scenarios. It does not make them more fun. That much is true. I mostly looked at the point of handling the situation with regards of winning the match. Not in regards of the fun for all players in the match. Tunneling is unfun (at least for most people). Camping is unfun. Some killers are unfun. Some maps are unfun. Swf does not make these problems go away, it makes them more tolerable to deal with. A good swf on voice communicaiton WILL have a way better time when dealing with these unfun situations.
Solving these problems involves a more complex solution i feel like.
- Its not done with removing killers from the game or changing them so much that they become unrecognizable for the people that enjoyed them. The best that can be done is reworking them slightly to make them more healthy.
- Its not done with putting a jungle gym in every dead zone. Even a LT will not please a lot of people so where do we start? Almost everyone agrees, that Garden of Joy is not fine in terms of pallet spawns, loop design and especially the main building.
- Its not done with giving DS 5 seconds again. There will always be people that tunnel and the reward ( someone leaving the match and making it a 3v1) is still too big without any alternative. If the killer player wants to win, they WILL play optimally. Currently, and as long as i have been playing, the most optimally playstyle for killer is also unfun for survivor. Same way is the most optimally way to play as survivor very unfun for the killer. Making a liscensed perk that people have to pay for a bit stronger IS NOT THE BEST WE CAN DO. There has to be something that incentivices the killer player to go for other survivors. This does not have to be slowdown or as strong as getting into a 3vs1. Just something to making hook spreading worth it. Currently it punishes the killers time investment rather than making them progress their objective. Otherwise i dont think tunneling will see a decrease in popularity.
There will always be people that complain about things. Thats normal. I complain too! I complain about unfair loop design for m1 killers. I complain about the shack and its design. I complain about coldwind long tiles. I complain about Blights ridiculous state. I complain about Nurse power. I complain about Myers being awfully weak without a certain addon. I complain about Sadakos original rework. I complain about Freddy's awful state.
I complain just as much as the rest. But i try to see the facts and see solutions with logic. A survivor killing themselves on first hook, beccause the killer is a Xenomorph is not logical for me. Its a subjective opinion about a character in a video game that the player doesnt like. Therefore the other players have to dislike the match against the Xenomorph as well because one player was entitles enough to say: "Yeah, im out!". Thats not logical to me.
A SWF winning in 4 minutes because of items, a map offering and callouts just to mock the Ghostface-player in end game on how bad they played. Is also not logical to me. These players clearly wanted to win extremely badly. Thats fine. Whats not fine is the lack of self reflection on the stuff that made this win possible and the lack of a fight, the Ghostface was able to put up.
Same goes for Killer, because for some, im a dirty killer player that only sees the killer as a victim and the survivors as evil incarnate.
Its not ok for a Killer to look up the profile of the survivors pre match and single out who to tunnel based on who has the lowest hour count. That is just despicable behaviour. People want to play the game. Not targeted because of their playtime, culture or name. A killer proceeding to "hump" a survivor because they made a misplay and calling them on how bad they played in end game chat is also not ok. Especially not if the killer player played a strong killer with a map offering and strong addons on top of it.
Rant over.
Why is tunneling such a problem right now?
- Not enough punishment for tunneling
- Not enough information for the killer on the progress of the game
- No worthwhile alterinative
- Hooking individual people before sacreficing a survivor punishes the killer more than it helps them
- Survivors sticking to gens, ignoring side objectives like healing, chests or totems
- Strong maps making chases take too long for the killer to handle (pre dropping on some maps is more than enough)
- Some killers are especially good at it (Wesker, Pyramid head, Nurse, Blight, Spirit)
How do we fix it? Some ideas:
- Making the killer a bot (100% success rate to work while also killing th egame in the process)
- Nerfing killers that are epsecially good at it
- Giving the killer some form of incentive to go for multible people
- Giving the survivors some form of tool to deal with it (should NOT be abusable like how DS was in its prime)
- Giving the killer pre lobby information on whether they face a swf or not
Are these the best solutions? NO! Of course not. Its more complicated than that.
As I said, all the problems that are related to players "fun" are hard to tackle because what is and isnt "fun" is very subjective. This does not mean that any opinion has less worth.
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It doesn’t really matter what role you claim to play more. Playing one or the other doesn’t preclude anyone from having a bad take about that particular role. Anyway, your argument appeared to be that SWF ameliorates the issues survivors face. Two people pointed out how that is incorrect. It may have been that you were unclear with what you meant, but Firellius and Mikaela are both still right—SWF doesn’t negate the inherent issues with playing survivor. You’re correct however (now that you’ve clarified your position) that a SWF can help make those scenarios initially described somewhat more bearable.
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Oh nice, now its not witch hunting anymore?
I said, that playing swf with voice communitcation does not make these problems go away, it makes them less impactful in regards to winning the game. This does not make them more fun all of a sudden.
Please dont start to gang up on people if you want a logical discussion. Thanks
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Witch hunt? Hon, I don’t personally believe you play more survivor. My acknowledging that bit at all was giving you grace you haven’t earned. That was your freebie.
I don’t see anyone ganging up on you. But if you believe that to be happening, order your thoughts before you express them so people more accurately understand your disjointed, half-cocked points. That advice is also free of charge. You’re welcome.
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