100 Hours of DBD, My personal experience
I started playing DBD about a month and a half ago right before my winter break for college had started. I had crazy amounts of free time to spare so I spent it learning and playing DBD. I started playing as a survivor so I could play with my friends and be able to have someone tell me exactly what the killers can do. After playing for a couple of hours I came to the realization that killers seemed very strong. I brushed it off as me being bad and salty about the game, but as I continued to play, I noticed that certain killers/playstyles would win the matches every time I would see them played. It seemed like if the killer wanted to win by either tunneling, proxy camping, or 3 gen-ing, they would almost be guaranteed the win. If the killer wasn't being super toxic in their playstyle, it would be the perk set-ups that would get them the win, with the amount of gen regression perks available as well as certain Hexes, there would basically be a new objective for the survivors. It felt like if the killer wanted to run a combination of hexes with pentimento, or a combination of gen regression perks, they would have an insane amount of pressure from the start that felt unplayable for the survivors. God, forbid they do BOTH. Regardless, I thought to myself that maybe my issue was that I didn't know how killer played, or I didn't understand that they needed to do that to win, so I decided to try and play killer myself, with some self-imposed rules.
-I would not tunnel anybody off hook
-If I hooked someone, I would leave the hook so they would have a chance to be unhooked and healed
-If I spotted someone on death hook early into the game, I decided not to chase to make the game more interesting
-I would never force a 3 gen
-I would not use map offerings to get easier maps for my killers
-I would try to get everyone to death hook before actually killing someone
-I would not slug for the 4K just because I knew the last survivor could get hatch
I played a combination of legion, nurse, and spirit. After about two days of gameplay (about 11 hours in-game) I was easily able to make it to iridescent 1. What make this even more surprising to me is that during these games about 1/3 of the games I would befriend the survivors and give them free escapes or hatch if they had just given up or given me a laugh. In the after-lobby chats, I would have survivors thanking me and saying gg about every game, simply for my playstyle, and even still I made it to the top rank with complete ease.
After saying all of that I can say with complete confidence that killer is honestly over tuned, and the anti-camp system is a complete joke. What sucks even more is that killer is rewarded for having a ######### playstyle of either tunneling, proxy camping, or forcing 3 gens.
I think that killers believe that survivors are OP, but the number of useful perks that survivors have compared to killers is an absolute joke. You see so many of the same perks on survivors because so many of them are so specific that you never get use out of them. Whereas killers have the opposite problem, and their perks work too well.
Honestly, I could be in the wrong, but I can't find any meaningful arguments of why killer is underpower, or why survivors are OP.
Comments
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If both killer and survivors are less experienced, killer is in better position.
If both killer and survivor are experienced ones, survivors are in better position, especially when they are in SWF.
Considering you are new, you will be the case where killer is in better position.
Pentimento is noob stomper. If survivors have enough experiences to know how Pentimento works, it doesn't do much because they will cleanse Pentimento totem right away since you can know the position of totem by the sound when it first cleansed.
It is Anti Face-camp system, not anti-camp system. It is only meant to stop face-camping, not proxy camping.
Survivors have enough amount of useful perks. And these perks help you to overcome killers doing tunneling, proxy camping, and 3-genning.
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This is objectively wrong because very good killers have proven they can win regardless of what the survivors use. Momo is undefeated as a Blight main, for example. If SWF truly is strong, he and other good killers would lose. It simply has no logical reasoning to think high experienced goes to survivor. It seems to be killers are overpowered in both lower skill and high skill too.
I agree with OP that the game has severe balance issues and it really is mind boggling why it is not addressed.
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He is playing Blight, who is obviously broken killer. Most of the killers are much weaker than Blight. And that win streak is made in pub while he is very good blight player and we all know DBD's mmr is screwed up. If survivors are not strong in high levels, why there are many limitations in tournaments for survivors while killers have almost none?
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The fact that someone can always win means it is possible. Don't you think with MMR he should lose sometimes if the game was more fair? It is not only Blight that can always win.
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If killer has better skill than survivors, killer should win the game. He is top tier player and he should win most of the pub matches. This should go same to other killers other than Nurse and Blight.
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Blight, Nurse, any other high tier killer it doesn't matter. Hardly any survivors play like they are in a tournament, they will always take a 3 man out vs risking a save. 3 man out is a win in tournament. The majority of killers play like comp, regardless of skill level.
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Pub stompers basically. Let him play in a tournament against people that are just as good and suddenly it all becomes a lot closer. Is this really such a surprise? The people at the very top, that use the best things in the game will stomp everyone else.
But in general, what @Astel said is true. Killers have the upper hand in lower MMR, while survivors have the upper hand in high MMR. There are exceptions of course (mainly Blight and Nurse because they are so much stronger than the other killers) but as a rule of thumb, this works pretty well. Don't forget, not all killers are Nurse and Blight. We also have Freddy, Myers and Trapper, which represent the other extreme. Some killers are too strong, others too weak.
The game does have some balance issues but the devs aim at a 60% kill rate. By that standard, the game should be in a pretty good spot. The last official kill rates where from 6.1.0, when killers were the strongest they had ever been and the kill rates were pretty close to that goal. Since then, we've only had Nightlight to go by which has always tracked a slightly lower kill rate (mostly about 55%).
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It's only killer-sided vs. newesh survivors. The coin flips once they're more experienced and MMR kicks in.
At the end, a good team with a lot of hours will at least force a draw vs. any killer, just because of numbers.
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If that was true, kill rates would favor survivors in high mmr which is not true.
Killer have advantages on all levels. Unless you are playing weak killer like Trapper, you will win 60 - 70% of your games. Even more if you are good player.
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Honestly, I could be in the wrong, but I can't find any meaningful arguments of why killer is underpower, or why survivors are OP.You're not wrong. At the absolute upper end, not just high MMR but the best teams when they are playing sweaty, survivors have an advantage, but otherwise the advantage is generally with killer.
That said, things do even out more over time.
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The way I see it is Swaf>Killer>solo queue, just depends on the lobby you get and how the people play if your against solo queue survivors with random skill levels it’s gonna be easy but if your against a four stack that has a higher skill level it’s gonna be harder for you. Less things have to fall together for the killer to win than it does for survivors to win.
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OP, a fresh new player, did an experiment and came with his findings. These are his experiences as a new player, and as such, i hope people realize how accurate he is. Whether @Astel is correct or not, doesn't really matter. This is the impression a new player got. So this is how people will decide to stay playing the game, or leave.
Tbh, OP stayed longer because he had friends to play with imo. Come in as a new, solo player? Probably not a lot of staying power.
Anyway, @StonedDino , you are pretty much correct. The things Astel was saying are true to an extent, but it is not 100% for everyone, everytime. But at the top 0.0001%, survivors probably have it a lil better. Keep at it imo. You'll figure things out even as you pass 1k hours. :)
I main Trapper, so I'd gladly do some customs with you and your crew.
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I created a thread a while ago about killer winstreaks. The central point of that is a video from Otzdarva in which he highlights some crazy killer winstreaks. In short, it is possible with many if not all killer to go on high winstreaks in the hundreds or even thousends. For survivors, it is not.
Whenever killer come up with a counter argument to that topic, it usually starts with "But comp survivors". First of all, it is not true. Even in comp, killer have a positive expected outcome. Also i dont know which tournament or league you are participating or you watching, but i can assure you that killer have restrictions aswell.
And second, it is overall a bad argument because 99,99% of this game is outside of comp and the majority of player will never ever face such a strong team. Therefore it is irrelevant.
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while survivors have the upper hand in high MMR.
Questionable. We dont know the current statistics, but those in the past showed that in high MMR, the killrate for killers were equal if not higher then on lower MMR.
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People love giving their reasoning using top tier comp teams as the golden standard. I try not to respond to that low tier type of thinking: You'll never get through to them.
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According to that, killer are the better players? The best survivor team in the world could not achieve anything even close to what standard killer (i am not talking about spirit, Nurse or Blight) can do, even with the very forgiving "3 person out" restriction.
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Honestly, I could be in the wrong, but I can't find any meaningful arguments of why killer is underpower, or why survivors are OP.
There is none. Killers are not underpowered at all, they are clearly overpowered. Even diehard killer mains cant really deny that anymore. The argument of them is that killer should be the "power role" so the game is more intense for both sides.
I personally completly disagree with that, since i know that a fair balance in DBD is the most fun. Actually for both sides.
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Of course killer has to be the power role. It's a 1 vs. 4 game. The 1 has to be strong to compete against the 4. They have to have power to balance the game at all. That's what "power role" means.
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We both have a different definition on power role. Of course the killer has to be stronger then one survivor. That is obviously out of question.
Bu the usual case killer mains define power role "Killer has to have 60% or more killrate so he is a scary monster". And that is something i disagree with.
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Momo is also some one who uses the absolute best of the best add on and perk combo to achieve this, and hes against teams with a wide variety of skills thanks to how inconsistent matchmaking is.
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Probably because we have killer players that also go on huge win streaks. There is a minory that dominate everyone else. Either because are simply so much better or because they use the stronest stuff in the game. However, the general kill rates even with those outliers, is about the same as what would be expected.
Also keep in mind, that these kill rates are for the highest 5% MMR on each individual killer. Not the highest 5% MMR in general. There is a good chance the top 10% Nurse MMR is still higher than the top 5% Freddy MMR.
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And 99.99% of Killer players don't have the 10-15k hours (literally over a year of accumulated play time) of experience or anywhere close to the skills required to do that, so the majority of players will never face such a strong Killer. Therefore arguments concerning kill streaks are irrelevant.
If it's unreasonable to equate the skill of the average team to comp teams, you also shouldn't be using comp Killer players as an example of anything either. And as far as I'm aware, only Blight and Nurse are expected to 3-4k in comp.
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I have been involved in way to many discussions around this so it is only fair that i stick with that standard. Those i said are basically 1 to 1 quotes.
EDIT: Killer mains defend the 60% killrate. The reason why it is "fair" for them is because killer is supposed to be the scary monster and therefore they should win more often.
That is also not neccessary true. Again, i can only say what i remember, but it was pretty even. Also Trapper or Pig had high winrate on top level. I am aware that nightlight is not accurate, but it is close enough for reference. There the winrates speak the same language.
About top MMR on specific killer. From what seems to be logical to me is that high winrate = high MMR. Therefore, when Trapper on high MMR has lets say 60% winrate and Nurse has 60% winrate, they play against the same kaliber of survivors.
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But those top tier survivor teams do have this requirement. Again, they are the best of the best and can not nearly achieve what killer can do. Sorry, you can turn it however you want but it stays a fact: Killer can go for thousends of wins, and survivors can not, not even the best of the best together.
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I'm not twisting anything, I'm stating facts. You're using an extreme outlier to make your point, while arguing against the use of an extreme outlier that would make that point look weak. The number of players who could get win streaks in the hundreds or thousands can most likely be counted on both hands. It is rare to the point where it's not something that can ever be reasonably brought up in the average balance conversation.
It's an asymmetrical game and, Killers, by the very nature and intention of the genre, are more powerful and have more options available to them than Survivors. Killers and Survivors have different objectives and different means to achieve those objectives. They're not supposed to be directly comparable - of course they can't achieve anything close to what Killers can (though low hundreds has been proven possible), they're essentially playing a different game with different rules.
Post edited by Raconteurminator on3 -
What are the extreme outliners here? It is just one small component of the game which speaks for the killer beeing overpowered. There are many others of course. Overall winrate for example.
It's an asymmetrical game and, Killers, by the very nature and intention of the genre, are more powerful and have more options available to them than Survivors. Killers and Survivors have different objectives and different means to achieve those objectives. They're not supposed to be directly comparable - of course they can't achieve anything close to what Killers can (though low hundreds has been proven possible), they're essentially playing a different game with different rules.
Excuse me? Why should this not be comparable? Why would it matter if they have different objectives? They play in the same realm against each other. The only difference is that killers objective is easier to achieve then the survivors objective. The numbers are the only truth we have.
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I was wandering how new players are coping tbh
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What are the extreme outliners here? It is just one small component of the game which speaks for the killer beeing overpowered. There are many others of course. Overall winrate for example.
I've explained this to you. I won't do it again. As for the win rate, I've seen people explain it to you before, and I've seen you fail to grasp their explanation a dozen times or more. The 60% thing is not, by any means, complex, yet even when a dev has explained it to you in a previous topic, you've nuh-uh'd them and continued believing what you want. If it's all the same, I'll let that can of worms go unopened.
Excuse me? Why should this not be comparable? Why would it matter if they have different objectives? They play in the same realm against each other. The only difference is that killers objective is easier to achieve then the survivors objective. The numbers are the only truth we have.
It's an asymmetrical game, this has been explained to you. And the numbers are worth nothing when you've been shown to be so very willing to ignore them or the context behind them when it benefits your argument.
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I've explained this to you. I won't do it again. As for the win rate, I've seen people explain it to you before, and I've seen you fail to grasp their explanation a dozen times or more. The 60% thing is not, by any means, complex, yet even when a dev has explained it to you in a previous topic, you've nuh-uh'd them and continued believing what you want. If it's all the same, I'll let that can of worms go unopened.
Those "explanations" were obviously wrong. A dev did it and basically only proven my point.
Go on Nightlight and check for stats. And see for youself a killer who has 60% killrate. I bet it is 60% winrate or above. Just do it, come back later.
It's an asymmetrical game, this has been explained to you. And the numbers are worth nothing when you've been shown to be so very willing to ignore them or the context behind them when it benefits your argument.
All your talk are words with no context, sorry. Invalidate my statement? Try that instead. 😋
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Therefore, when Trapper on high MMR has let's say 60% win rate and Nurse has 60% winrate, they play against same kaliber of survivors.
How do you figure? High MMR is not a number but a range. I don't recall the exact numbers but that is not necessary. The highest cap is way higher than the soft cap to high MMR. They took the 5% highest MMR on each individual killer. That could mean (again, I don't recall the actual numbers) 1800 as the absolute highest value for a Trapper and 2300 as the absolute highest value possible, which is reached by exactly one Nurse main. For the Trapper it would mean, that the matchmaking is looking for survivors close to an 1800 MMR. For our Nurse on the other hand, the MMR would look for people close to 2300. These are not the same caliber survivors.
We know that some players have insanely high kill rates in high MMR. However the overall kill rate is supposedly close to 60% (55% according to Nightlight), so there must be people that have lower kill rates up there to balance the scales. However, if these were some few players, then they should eventually get back to normal MMR because they constantly lose. Meaning, that after a while only the killers that win at least the expected value of games would remain. This would lead to kill rates in high MMR going up because there wouldn't be any players to balance the scales.
This brings me to the conclusion, that in high MMR most people have a kill rate slightly lower than the expected ratio. It's not enough for them to fall off. But it's enough to balance the scales. Hence, the game is slightly survivor sided on that level.
Feel free to disagree. I have no proof for any of this but it's the only logical explanation I can muster.
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A dev explaining to you why you were wrong and how you were wrong only served to prove your point, which only serves to prove my point, that you'll conveniently ignore things when it serves your purpose. I'm not going to debate established facts with you, as much as you'd love me to.
Denying context doesn't take the context away, like denying what a dev has painstakingly explained to you doesn't make it false.
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In my first couple of years (ranks) Id win 9/10 games as Trapper, wasn't even difficult until I reached mid ranks in which he fell off a cliff. Nowadays, I win about 3-4/10 as Oni (console)
Survivors are 100 times better than they were against me back in years 2-4.
In a game of low experienced players, killers will often win. In a game of experienced players, survivors will will often win (as a previous poster stated)
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oh no not the ´´via statistics, trapper and nurse are at the same level´´
jokes aside
those graphics means literally nothing, because every single person in this world ignore the fact that survivors and killers are not npcs, they´re human beings, human beings with mental problems, human beings that can sometimes be exhausted, that just give up on hook just because he died in a chase, or dc after 1 gen pop before the 3k, human beings that makes mistakes, you can´t use graphics and statistics for something that is almost NEVER consistent, you need to know why the graphic looks like that
that´s why you see something like ´´28% of the mario kart players are bad because [...]´´ and not ´´28% of the mario kart players are bad´´
and no, horrendous survivors can have a high mmr by just bringing full stack and lasting more than 40 seconds in chase, that´s one of the reasons why killers like trapper, wraith etc have a good killrate/winrate, and you see a lot of meg-level players as your team mates, because the survivors are bad or not even bad, sometimes they´re ´´not good enough´´, they are so comfortable because ´´Uh i can do my objective 10% faster now it´s a free gg´´, and because of that they´ll make mistakes
and then we have killers like the nurse, or maybe the huntress with iri head using midwitch map offering + 400 aura reading perks to ´´cheese´´ a win against the survivors i´ve mentioned before
It's a vicious cycle, bad players will always face each other, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, but at some point they will face a player who is more experienced in the game and they will lose, then they will complain
and cmon, perkless and addonless blight is not even that strong, if a SWF team wants to break that streak they´ll break it
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There is several problems with that.
1. Anybody can be momo with practice. He just happens to be known.
2. If a killer can achieve win rates like that, it should be addressed. Just because you are good doesn't mean it should invalidate the chances of the opponent.
3. What would happen to survivors if they could be undefeated? Or win hundreds of matches in a row for using an item? To my knowledge solo survivors are unable to do a win streak at all which is simply unacceptable.
With what is known, the game has no fair playing field.
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100 hours isn’t nearly enough to know that. And unless you put 100 hours on one killer only you definitely aren’t at the 1900 MMR cap as each killer also has their own MMR . Give it 500-1000 hours before being able to say for certain. At the absolute highest MMR survivor is stronger. All you need is one good looper and have the other 3 sit on gens. SWF is abysmally strong even when I play with my friends who have less than 80 hours we almost always win because discord and call outs. Low MMR is def killer sided tho for sure.
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if you are playing with your friends who already are playing the game, you should be getting strong killers and survivor team having basically 1 less survivor (no offense) is an expected loss for the survivor side. even if you were playing solo, with the game's flawless matchmaking, you could be thrown in front of a 5k hour killer and get destroyed so against stronger killers just accept you'll lose.
though, i'll assure you a 4 man team of decent, not even crazy good survivors, is most of the time a loss for killer unless it's nurse or blight and maybe spirit. a survivor shouldn't get tunneled until at least 3 gens get done with the entire map available, 3 genning is gone after 30th this month and camping is irrelevant if the survivor team knows what they are doing.
i wish matchmaking did anything in dbd but here we are; and if you are swfing with your friends just be patient until you can match the skill level of average killer you are facing.
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Making it to Iri 1 in 11 hours means OP double pipped almost every single game.
Either he is a god gamer, or MMR gave him a massive head start, or he is a troll and he is lying.
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Sorry to say, but I just double pipped like every game lmao
This the game I got it
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The whole reason I did the OP was because I thought it was laughably easy. I wanted to see what other people thought of this info.
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He says about 11 hours and in game. Depending upon how specific he is being on his timing and how much he is factoring in lobbies, we're looking at between 50 and 80 games based on his definitions.
It's easy to pip as killer, especially at low MMR. He is choosing a playstyle that rewards pips, but also switching between killers and letting survivors go, both which keep his MMR low.
I also don't think he is laying it out as a scientific experiment, he is a new player after all, so I don't think he means he had never touched killer before keeping track. So he very well might have had some pips.
It doesn't seem very strange to me for a new player. I was very much a survivor main when I started the game in summer 2022 and I still iri 1 as killer. It takes a lot more effort now as a killer, but at low MMR games are quick and easy if you are comfortable with first person style games.
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Option 1 or 2 then.
Keep playing until your MMR gets to an appropriate level for you.
Won't happen on Nurse because she's busted lol
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The Pip system isn't really related to skill. It's just this kind of 'other thing' that the game has.
If you'd played absolutely ruthless it would have been much harder to pip at the rate you did.
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I know getting iri 1 isn't the "top rank" but it just felt easier than I thought it would be.
There is some credit to this as well, if I was nice to survivors, they would often let me hit/down them before leaving.
I also haven't had any experience on killer up until I played during the rank reset. I also only used nurses perk on pretty much all of my killers, because I didn't have any other killers ranked up.
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I will also say that the time estimate is rough, but I'd say between 10-12 hours in-game.
Take that as you will
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I also haven't had any experience on killer up until I played during the rank reset. I also only used nurses perk on pretty much all of my killers, because I didn't have any other killers ranked up.That is impressive then as Nurse can be harder to start with.
My experiences to start off the game were not that different than yours, here were my thoughts at 30 hours. At the time I was sure I was going to quit the game do to its incredibly one sided nature. I still have lots of complaints about the game, and still think the game is heavily tilted toward killer, but I've been playing it pretty regularly for a year and a half now.
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The fact that you're fully up to date with all the unwritten rules (you mentioning camping, tunneling, proxy camping and what not) kinda worries me. You're only 100 hours into the game, you should still be learning perks and killer powers.
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You pointing out 1 out of 32 killers we have in the roster to claim killer is overpowered is a very bad take. But you probably know this as well. Where is the 1500 win streak on Nemesis? Legion? Myers? Ghostface? Wraith? Trapper? Chucky? or any of the other 30 or so killers?
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