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So BHVR nerfed Sadako without any buffs
A lot people pointed those things:
- There is no risk with holding tapes.
- Survivors can remove stacks on your face and you can't do anything because of hit animation is longer than tape animations.
- Many people pointed her irri add-on is weak because survivors can remove her power easily and she can't build stacks to punish them. Her irri add-on can make her powerless.
But what we got? Nerfs. I really don't know how to feel, it's just big disappointed.
I am not against nerfs, if there is some issues, i am fine with fix it. But why you are making PTB if you are gonna ignore the things we pointed?
Comments
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I was not expecting sadako to go from being relatively alright in terms of strength to one of (if not) the worst killer in the game.
That "power meter" mechanic looks horrible to play with on paper so I'm guessing it'll be extremely unfun to use in game, literally the exact same as overheat - being punished for using your ability a lot.
Still no buffs to her chase either which is what she desperately needs.
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Au contraire. This opens up the possibility of discouraging survivors to take tapes at all, meaning you won't have to deal with your TV's being unavailable. You can sacrifice gen stalling for aggression.
Ie., my original Sadako playstyle, perfected.
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I was fine with nerfs she got because of lock mechanic. But ofcourse they nerfed it too and now she has nothing.
She can't builds stacks easily because 16m is pretty small area and smart survivors will just close TVs before they sit on gens. And it's not hard to find them because they can see TV auras.
Lock mechanic nerfed so much. So when you build full stacks on one survivor, they most likely will be on their last hook state. At this point who cares if they are moriable or not.
She has no chase power, she has meh level slowdown and she has no threat on survivors. I am feeling so upset to lose one of the my fav killers.
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It’s the fact that they asked for and received a lot of pretty consistent feedback for PTB Sadako on the forums then decided to ignore all of it and just nerf her even more. What is their thought process here?
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The feedback on PTB was super clear. If you did not cheese condemn, she was terrible. Everyone knew this.
So they removed the cheese, then just did nothing else. Okay BHVR, ty for listening...?
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The changes to sadako from the dev update is terrible, us sadako mains were very happy what she was during the ptb, so when you made changes by giving her a cooldown until you gain a condemn, you just destroyed her viability and skill factor for how weak she is, nobody asked for her to be nerf, in all she needed to be buffed from her chasing aspect, this change made me lost my excitement for the upcoming update
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First part of the changes: You will most likely always turn off the TV near a gen, so it‘s your own fault if you don‘t do it and end up with high condemned in chase. Then when she hooked you, how is she supposed to Tunnel condemned on you, when you don‘t get more on the hook. I really looked forward to it as a cool threatening feature and now it‘s just: wow 2 stacks.
Second part: I watched a lot of videos and no one had a problem with condemned. So I can‘t understand that. I even expected her to get a lot of buffs, but no only unnecessary nerfs.
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Thanks for that Behaviour. How you could think more nerfs would be appropriate blows my mind. Tapes still hold no threat (even though the whole reason she was changed from the last PTB to current live is because you learned giving the tape no threat was a bad idea).
- Survivors can still completely delete the ability for you to push power on half the map and major POI's on the map like main building. Seriously you take the tape on main building of Ormand for example and the entire middle of the map is a complete condemn deadzone.
- She still has terrible chase potential and now the only thing she has is TP'ing quickly.
- Survivors can put Tapes in your face more than ever so now you spend 45 minutes building condemn and it means literally nothing because there is no threat to letting it build.
- All this and now you've added back a timer to pushing condemn so you can't even punish players for doing gens right next to TV's.
There is literally 0 chance you will ever push any meaningful condemn on any survivor who has a brain.
Well, I'm going to go equip iri tape and hard tunnel people off hook all game combo'd with "Make your Choice" I guess since that's now going to be the only viable playstyle for her. Nevermind I'll just not play her at all. You reworked her in the first place because she was terrible outside 1 playstyle with very particular addons and now she is substantially worse than her initial form. An M1 killer with a teleport. There is now so much micro managing on the condemn for no reward, it's not worth it at all.
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Why is Onryō once again receiving drastic changes that noone asked for? Her PTB rendition was a fantastic middleground of her original and buffed power, and most Onryō players were overwhelmingly happy with the PTB.
I'm so annoyed I wasted 100 Prestiges worth of Bloodpoints on this character just for them to throw her kit on the chopping block every few months and do something random. Can we just get her PTB version back and leave her alone.
However, some crafty Onryō players discovered that they could intentionally teleport to the wrong TVs first in order to spread more than one stack of Condemned to Survivors near/heading towards a powered one.
Like how is this even a problem? The survivor can just turn off the TV in the first place. Why is the killer being punished for a survivor not engaging with the counterplay?
Start your chainsaws! We were pleased to see such a positive response to The Hillbilly on the PTB.
And I guess the positive response to the Onryō changes doesn't matter...
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I don‘t understand why they collect feedback, when they don‘t even care about it. Now she is just weaker than her first version.
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I told you this would happend and yet people cheered here how happy they are for old sadako to comeback. She went from low A tier to Bottom C again at best. Hope you all happy now.
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Your thoughts, my friends?
EDIT:
I'll add my own thoughts on the matter here because I just realized how bad this situation is.
Overall, most Onryo mains here were happy with the return of her old kit with improvements. And it was more than a good change, it was a massive jump in the right direction.
Then why nerf it? Why change things that weren't issues in the first place? No one asked for her to be nerfed, she didn't need it. Why change something people enjoy?
This PTB had given me a lot of hope for Freddy, but now I'm a bit concerned. This is bad.
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We predicted future
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I don't know either.
A lot people pointed Alan Wake perks are pure garbage, ignored.
A lot people pointed Sadako has some weak points, ignored.
A lot people pointed Quick Gambit needs rework, it's still terrible. Not ignored but core issue did not fixed. So it's still dead perk.
A lot people pointed DMS is problematic with buffed Grim Embrace, ignored.
I am surprised Blight feedbacks did not ignored. Like i am really shocked they actually saw feedbacks for him.
That was last PTB for me. If devs don't care about our feedbacks, why even we waste our time and test things? Feels pointless. I am not gonna bother myself again for any PTB anymore. It's very disappointed right now.
I guess i should play Sadako before they nuke her. Because she will be unplayable after this patch.
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Her ptb version was fine: she could have been better, but what they did now was straight up deleting her strength. I saw literally everybody wanting buffs for her or beeing fine with her. Nobody wanted that.
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That‘s how they do everything in this game, either it‘s strong or useless (no in between) and they want it to be that way. I was really happy getting my favorite killer back in a good spot, but they just straight up gave her Fredys place. They should stop doing ptbs and just bring it to live. At least I could have played her like she was on ptb.
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I´m really sad with her changes, sometimes i sometimes play sadako just for fun, i´m not a super fan of her gameplay but her new version looks boring and also insanely weak
The condemn lock on is literally useless now, 4 permanent stacks in a death on hook survivor, well really cool but it is NOTHING, just bring a memento mori and it will have a better effect than this, the tape does literally anything, it actually buffs survivors because 1 tv will be turned off and you can also turn of other tvs if you want, no downside, the condemn only applies to survivors 16 next to a TV if it´s ON, in bigger maps you will almost NEVER condemn any survivor with a working brain, and you also have a 10 seconds cooldown to use your condemn? so you can somehow waste a teleport? ok you can travel the map in 1 second but why?? the survivor can just grab a tape and be immune to her power for 70 seconds because the condemn doesn´t work in Off TVs (or 45 seconds i don´t remember correctly)
pls, you can keep the limit of permanent stacks but increase the amount of stacks, the anti-teleport spam is not needed because spamming your teleport everytime just hurts you, because you´re mostly stacking players without a tape, and bring back the ´´if you get hit with a tape, something bad happens´´ or even that old passive condemn, something to make the survivor actually have a reason to put the tape in another TV
bhvr don´t need to colect data, she looks so weak, it´s like ´´hmm i´ll make nemesis need to hit survivors 5 times now, i´ll collect data to see if it´s horrendous or not good luck nemesis players´´ just no
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I’m very disappointed, now truly. I was extremely excited for this first live update of the year. I am very disappointed in the direction they took.
Behavior had such a Win on this until now. Do I understand the early tunnel/early kill aspect yes, but this was way too much of the nerf.
I took so much time creating feedback here for them after playing her for almost 2000 hours and then this. :(
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Couldn’t agree more, wasted my time p100 her
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I 💯 agree my friend. I’m very disappointed.
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This is exactly what I was worried about when I saw Sadako on the roadmap again. She is now worse than her release version. She's gone from C Tier, to B tier, and now to D tier.
Condemn is even less threatening than it was in her original version. She still doesn't have the tracking benefit she used to get from teleporting near a survivor. And holding a tape now does absolutely nothing. And TVs are all highlighted so they are stupid easy for survivors to find.
This is almost comically bad.
It's also funny to see that they've added the condemn cooldown timer in this version rather than the mapwide condemn version, where it would have actually made sense.
And, no doubt, TV spawn RNG is still going to be awful. God, this is disheartening. I've been taking a break from DBD for the past month or so, with the thought that I'd come back when the Sadako changes went live, but now I'm not so sure.
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I understand where the nerfs are coming from, but some of them are absolutely unjustified.
The lock on should have stayed as it was. It was the only thing making chases and hooks an incentive. Getting an early kill via hooking is not that common because Sadakos chase is not good.
The cooldown on condemned is bad. Thats it. Just bad.
WE NEEDED ADDON CHANGES! WHERE ARE THEY???
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I don't understand the point of PTBs anymore. They don't listen to what the players are actually saying and just do silly things like this.
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I dont know what is going on. We were on such a good path up until now. She was in a really good spot. Now shes a bit too lack luster.
I will still play her a lot. I will still find a way to make her really good. But this is really demoralizing not gonna lie.
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The most important changes, that were needed in my opinion, were addons and that survivors don‘t see all TV auras only the target TV. Then she would have been great, but no.
Behavior: We did a good job. Why not make everybody hate us!
Behavior Boss: Great idea! Let’s do that!
Hopefully they change those parts back like they did with batteries included!
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Im so confused friend. I though we had a breakthrough.
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I agree 💯 :(
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Sadako was about to become a great killer but she gets nerfed after players were so happy with her re work, what changed in the PTB??
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Same :( I was so happy.
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I agree.
The addons that really needed to be changed were left untouched.
PTB/Forums feedback was it ignored.
Condemn is shot again coupled with her no chase and anti loop potential = being bullied all over again.
Survivors are free to do whatever because they can grab a tape, 10 second cooldown, plus see auras of TVs at any given moment.
I’ll be slugging again that’s for sure. I’m not hooking a soul.
They want me to play healthier? Fine, no problem, but make healthy changes first not this.
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she went from trash, to strong, to decent, to trash again. this change does NOT solve the problem theyre claiming. its making her weaker. its as simple as that. she was enjoyable to survivors at first because of how weak she was. it seems like they want that back. i genuinely hope the license holders remove the license from bhvr.
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We were on such a good path.
The changes are not necessary. She needed other stuff. We pointed all of this out on the ptb. The Sadako feedbackk was over 200 comments long. What happened here? Almost all of our concernes where ignored and the things we praised got nerfed.
Please for all our sanities sake, CLARIFY WHAT HAPPENED HERE???
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Sadly that seems to be the chase. I dont know anymore. 2 stacks for each hook IS NOT ENOUGH INCENTIVE.
Im so sad right now......
I see history repeating itself......
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I too my friend. :(
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Please tell me this is not real.
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Sadako's PTB counterplay guide to avoid getting any condemn:
- If you see a TV aura when working a gen, take a tape.
- If you don't see a TV aura, you are safe.
By simply just doing this basic guide, survivors would be essentially completely safe from condemn while also denying Sadako her mobility. Sadako would only be able to apply it in chase which would also be easy to avoid, especially due to the TV auras.
If anything the counterplay was too easy on the PTB, and BHVR should have given her some buffs like hiding TV auras to survivors holding tapes (aside from target TV). But because survivors didn't understand the counterplay right away, BHVR decides to make her already weak condemn weaker. Against good survivors condemn is just a joke now.
BHVR please just don't nerf her. Use the PTB for live and make changes after a month to see how survivors adjust to her counterplay. I assure you with counterplay this easy,survivors can figure out how to grab a tape from a TV aura.
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the people that were complaining wanting the weak onryo back were all survivor mains. especially the ones claiming they're "onryo mains." bhvr knows this too, thats why they made her trash again
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Your one to tell.....
Im so sad right now.
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Im so sad friend.
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I wanted the old version back (I maimed her before the rework), because of the tv cooldowns, but even her first version was better than this. Now we need a fourth rework. Great.
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I guess BHVR will ignore all the complaints and critisim on the PTB forums again and release her in a broken state. Except instead of being brokenly strong, this time they are making her brokenly weak. Condemn is a joke now. I thought they would make the appropriate buffs to make the risk reward more fair to combat the easy counterplay. But instead they just nerf her. The PTB was almost perfect, just needed some tweaks in the right areas. we all gave BHVR extensive feedback again but BHVR just does its own thing.
I fully expect BHVR to just ignore us all and keep these nerfs; all just because survivors didn't learn to grab tapes from TV auras. Guess I'll see you all again in 6-8 months for her 3rd rework.
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Not a fourth rework. We need to somehow stop this.....
She was good on ptb. This was absolutely NOT needed.
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Agree, but that‘s what will happen, I think!
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Extremely disappointed by these changes. The PTB version was pretty much perfect, feedback was clear and positive, and then they just went and nerfed her into uselessness for no reason.
The power meter change is absurd. PTB Sadako players that spammed teleport just hurt themselves by turning off all of their TVs, and it could be easily countered by just going on a locker, walking away from the radius or turning off TVs, aka INTERACTING WITH HER POWER. If we nerf such a balanced and counterable interaction because some players don't interact with the killer, then why not make it so Pig's traps just take themselves off after a while if the survivor is not doing boxes, and Singularity's pods stop identifying the survivors that have never used EMPs in the match? It's such an unneeded nerf that favors players who are not playing well and adapting to the killer character they are facing.
Counterplay was there, and in the PTB it was finally balanced, easy and intuitive. This, + the limit to 2 condemned stacks for each hook (which just totally removes the hook incentive by the way, it's useless) just make her so much more weak for absolutely no reason and just add unneeded frustration to her gameplay. This is not going to remove tunneling, it's just bringing back slugging + actually incentivizing tunneling, because now the killer who had medium-weak chase and a medium-strong macro power (which was a great balance) has weak chase and a weak macro power. She'll just be so weak and frustrating it's not even funny.
I don't understand how with this update BHVR finally removed the limiting and frustrating "you get punished for using your power" mechanic from Hillbilly but decided it was a good idea to give it to Sadako...
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I’m so sorry but it is :(
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I feel so bad right now.....
I thought we had achieved something.
Its like fighting for a toy you want to have back at all costs, but then when you finally get the toy back after all the struggle , its all twisted and broken down.
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At this point im thinking about creating a petition.
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The most recent PTB majorly reworked Onryo. The changes were drastic, but proved to be very well received by the community. The general consensus was that the Onryo was weaker than before, perhaps weaker than she should be, but more fun and more skill expressive. Today BHVR damaged my faith in their ability to listen to their community by releasing a developer update announcing two major changes to the Onryo that not only made her even weaker, but also damaged her underlying gameplay.
The first change is that hooking a Survivor will now lock in a maximum of 2 stacks of Condemned. This can happen again when the Survivor is hooked for a second time for a maximum of 4 locked-in stacks. This is actually a major setback for the Onryo's design.
This PTB encouraged the Onryo to hook survivors for the first time since she was released via the introduction of locking in condemned and the reworked ring drawing addon. This change goes against that design philosophy in a major way.
Locking in 2 stacks of condemned is great and all, but the stacks from that first hook are the only ones that are meaningful, since hooking the survivor a second time puts them on death hook, meaning they'll be out the game if she manages to down them again regardless of how much condemned they have.
With this in mind, hooking a survivor more than once just lost its incentive, and the incentive for hooking a survivor once just got reduced significantly, as you can only lock in a maximum of two stacks on that first hook.
Another issue with this change is that it removed a large amount of risk from disabling TVs. Turning off TVs gives you a stack of condemned, and one of the big disadvantages of having high condemned, and therefor of switching off a large number of TVs, on the PTB is the risk that you might get caught out, downed, and hooked with that condemned, preventing you from removing it. Now that risk is gone, as hooking a survivor with 2 stacks is just as valuable as hooking a survivor with 5.
The reason given for making this change is also puzzling. The claim is that this change has been made to reduce tunneling, as a survivor with lots of condemned locked in is "a clear target" as they are only a few stacks from death. Whist this may initially sound logical, a small analysis reveals the logical flaw at play here.
With the exception of locking in condemned, the only way you can stop a survivor from removing their condemned is chasing them. On the PTB, if you hook a survivor with lots of condemned, you can allow them to be unhooked, healed and go on with their day without fear of them removing their condemned. Now you're actually incentivized to tunnel more than before, since the only way you can stop them removing all that condemned is by tunneling them. This means that this change actually has the complete opposite of its intended effect.
This is, of course, in addition to making the already pretty weak Onryo on the PTB even weaker.
Another change this PTB made was removing the cooldown from the Onryo's power. The cooldown was a point of contention for many players because it restricted when players could teleport whist simultaneously forcing them to teleport every time it was off cooldown to spread condemned optimally. This felt awful.
Unfortunately this feeling is about to return, because the second change announced today is as follows:
The power meter recharges over the course of 10 seconds.
- If the power meter is full, projecting will inflict one stack of Condemned to any Survivor near a powered TV and empty the power meter.
- If the power meter is not full, projecting will not inflict Condemned and the power meter will not be reset.
This change attempts to introduce compromise, it aims to limit the speed at which you can spread condemned whilst still allowing you the freedom of not having a cooldown. Unfortunately this change does not succeed.
Whist this change does not directly prevent you from teleporting whenever you want, it does punish you for doing so, effectively restricting you to teleporting once every 10 seconds once again. In the event that you teleport early you do get to actually teleport, this is good, but it damages your "condemned economy" as you spread no condemned and you still disable the TV you teleport to. This means you can't teleport early if you want to play optimally.
In addition to not being able to teleport too early, not teleporting while the power meter is full means you're limiting the number of times you can teleport and spread condemned, hence you're once again encouraged to teleport exactly when your power meter fills up.
The reason for this change, much like the reasoning for the previous change, is rather baffling.
In the event that the Onryo knows that there are survivors in range of a specific TV they can intentionally teleport to all other TVs to hit the survivor near the powered TV with condemned multiple times. As a survivor the counterplay to this is apparent, you disable the TV, either by picking up a tape or by disabling the TV while already holding a tape. This creates a risk vs reward scenario for the Onryo, because if the survivor does disable the TV the Onryo can no longer teleport to the survivor to disrupt them.
For whatever reason BHVR seems to think that this counterplay is not sufficient, despite the community consensus to the contrary, and have therefor introduced the aforementioned change. This is especially baffling given that the community is generally of the opinion that PTB Onryo isn't that strong, and this gameplay didn't feel bad for either side.
This concludes my rant. If, by any chance, someone from BHVR is reading this, please re-consider these changes. These changes do not achieve what they set out to, and only serve to reduce the Onryo's power and make her a less enjoyable gameplay experience.
Thank you for reading.
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This should be expected with this game now. BHVR is going to continue to alter killers, sometimes the same one multiple times, trying to make everyone happy. There's virtually zero competition in this genre so they can keep doing it with smiles on their faces and "golly gee whiz thank you community!" posts. Way too many frustrated players refuse to move on from this game which exacerbates the problem.
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I don‘t Even know, why they do these ptbs, when they can‘t take real data from it. If they did take her kill rate as excuse for those nerfs, then😭. Nobody plays real on ptb.
Yeah see you in 8 months for the next rework.😭
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