Natzi Coded Nea cosmetic plz fix!!!
Red laces mean that the person is affiliated with the Neo-Natzi group (especially paired with docs as it seems she is wearing). since Nea is strongly punk coded I ask that you please fix this! I would love to use this cosmetic but do not feel comfortable doing so. Lace code is not as popular anymore however it is still strong in the punk community so I ask that you please consider this.
(edit: there seems to be a lot of discourse here. I'm not asking anyone to get offended nor do I think anything was malicious. I'm not even offended. I simply found it uncomfortable and thought it would be an easy change to the cosmetic. let me ask you, if the laces had been black would you have even noticed? or cared? And in terms of history, yes there were different meanings depending on the region; however, it's important to look at the present as well. we now, with the internet have information everywhere. What is the most commonly accepted meaning right now? it is not 1980 anymore. if we don't have the same opinion that's okay! I respect that, and I hope you will respect mine.)
Comments
-
I'm glad you brought this up and hopefully made BHVR aware of this so they can make a decision on it. Personally to me its just a fashion aesthetic. We shouldn't let disgusting groups like that dictate things like the color of laces. I had never even heard of this sort of coding until I saw your post.
That being said, if BHVR wants to play it safe and change the color to black or something, I would be okay with it as it is their choice and I can understand the desire to play it safe when it comes to such disgusting ideologies.
5 -
I really don't think it's that serious...
13 -
You have got to be kidding me... What is this some kind of made up tik tok conspiracy?
14 -
lace code has been around since the 70's, I'm bringing it up because she's a punk-coded character so lace code would apply to her. I am also part of the punk community so it stood out immediately to me. I really am not trying to start anything (pinky promise) and I'm too old for tick tock bs
3 -
I can promise you no one was thinking what you're thinking when they were making this skin. There is nothing wrong with this cosmetic. Its not offensive. Its actually one of the best skins Nea has ever gotten. If they change it I think they should offer refunds to anyone who purchased the Rift if they so choose. You are thinking way too much into this and please keep in mind... this is a freaking video game.
11 -
Please explain how this is 1930-40 Germany coded. I simply don't understand or see it
9 -
Its just someone looking for a problem where there is none. The devs should ignore this entirely. They shouldn't be made to feel bad for putting red laces on a video game character's boots.
7 -
Lace code was an actual thing over 3 decades ago and only within certain subcultures in certain places.
It's long since dead and nowadays people wear different coloured laces for aesthetic purposes but for some reason people on TikTok and Twitter keep trying to revive it.
5 -
I just find it extremely strange that someone could read this much into such a small detail in a video game cosmetic. The OP should know that the devs didn't make them red for any nefarious reason.
5 -
I don't believe anyone was trying to be malicious! nor do I think they thought of this while making the design so you're right on that. I LOVE the cosmetic but as someone who is part of that subculture I would not use it, I hope that they can just change the color to a neutral black. it is just a video game however we are all real people so please respect differences in culture. just because something has no meaning to you does not mean that it has no meaning to others.
3 -
lace code is something used in punk culture as a flag of sorts to show which group you belong to. red laces signify you are a part of the skinheads/ neo natzi subculture.
3 -
I don't want to undermine anyone's feelings but yeah, I do think people nowadays have a habbit of assuming malice where it's obvious none was intended.
Her hair, jacket, and pants are red and so her laces are red to match.
If you look at the Deep Rift variant, her laces are blue to match. I think the whole thing is a big reach to be honest.
6 -
This isn't strictly true.
In some places and groups, red laces were used to signal communism, socialism, or even what football team you supported.
Lace code was highly regional. Part of the reason it's now defunct is because everyone had a different idea of what the lace colours meant.
4 -
Sometimes red is just red.
13 -
So I googled Doc Marten lace code and you're actually right. Lace code in the punk scene has red as neo-Nazi. TIL!
I'll add that I obviously don't think this was intentional on BHVRs part.
1 -
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
3 -
It may not be intentional, but that's precisely why BHVR should listen to this kind of feedback. It's often these lesser known cultural and subcultural meanings that matter. And everyone brushing it off apparently needs to read up again on what the Nazi regime stood for and then ask themselves if this type of symbolism has any place in DBD.
Spoiler: The answer is no.
2 -
It may not be intentional
Enough said IMHO 🤷
It's obvious this is not what the cosmetic is referring and is simply just a colour scheme thing so why make a song and dance about it?
2 -
Or maybe we should claim these "fashion-statements" back, saying we won't tolerate these types to even say what we can or can't wear?
4 -
Except the site I read said lace code started back in the 1970s, not 2024 lol so blame the hippies I guess?
2 -
This isn't about being ignorant of the past. This is about not freaking out over a pair of red shoe laces in a video game.
4 -
So just because some spesific group used some colours, now we can't use them? What is this post? Nea's costume is looking pretty normal, you are just trying to see problem here even there is not any problem.
4 -
Yep and its downright selfish too. They would rather take a cosmetic appearance away from thousands of other players so they can feel comfortable using a skin for themselves.
If the devs ever come across this thread please don't think you have any moral obligation to change anything.
2 -
The problem here is that neo-nazis, and really just bigots in general, have turned a bunch of things into dog whistles. The OK hand gesture, milk (although that one failed, it's hard to force milk into a conversation in a way that isn't convoluted), pepe the frog, the colors black and yellow together.
They're going to just keep adopting symbols, and you don't win anything by letting them have and keep those symbols. Do you know why they've largely stopped using pepe the frog and moved on to uglier and uglier wojacks? It's because pepe the frog is such a common image used by everyone online that it can't do its job as a dog whistle anymore. Wojacks aren't uncommon but they're still niche enough that they can do the job.
If lace code isn't being used any more because it was such a regional thing that meant so many different things to different people then take it back. Don't cede that ground to them. Use red laces if you want. It certainly looks cool in that skin and there's really no way players are going to be able to dog whistle with it. Don't let them keep something as basic as the color of shoe laces in an outfit.
4 -
Isnt this skin supposed to be Evil Nea anyway? To give her evil laces seems fine even if the color scheme is coded between nazis.
But I dont think we can let nazis claim the color red.
1 -
Quite the philosophical debate here huh? At what point do you draw the line about who and how small a group it's OK to offend?
For example the f-word regarding homosexual men is an American word that has become so widespread in that particular usage that it transitioned into British English, but where I come from, for my entire childhood it meant a type of meatball similar in composition to meatloaf, and took a while to become socially taboo here because no one understood the American meaning. Obviously can't use it any more because it has now predominantly become used that way in the UK as well, but it would not be taboo were it not for the homogenisation of American and British culture via the Internet.
If you do this for every culture and sub-culture, you're bound to hit a point where everything becomes offensive to one culture or another, and where the western world has such a mixed culture now, there aren't really rules for any culture, as every individual falls on the various scales somewhere, and any assumption you are making based on their suspected culture is probably wrong...
Regarding the case here... a significant number of people won't have a clue about this part of Punk culture... even among punks... so the argument is valid one... but what we're effectively debating in this thread is how few people know about it, and therefore how much does it matter?
Just throwing this out there... I'm offended by Boy Bands.
1 -
To try and add something useful to this conversation, I think it is important to consider where Nea herself was as a Punk and the connotations therein:
Nea grew up in the small town of Hjo in Sweden. She had a happy childhood even though her mom and dad worked hard. As the opportunity to move to the US became a reality she started acting out. Her parents didn’t really pick up on this as a reaction to their move. Nea was forced to leave her friends and life behind.
This would mean that depending on what part of the US Nea was in, lace code might have been prominent enough to warrant a second look. From what I can gather, it was a significant part of US punk culture particularly in California, but I'm not so sure about states like New York (Which I would guess would be more likely for a Swedish migrant). Apparently it was never a thing for punk culture in the UK. If lace code is still carrying the same historic meaning in the US today, and that is where Nea was living when she became a punk, then yes the OPs point may actually be valid here depending on the State.
However it's also not an automatic issue, because if lace code is no longer practised in Punk culture in California, or she is canonically from a completely different part of the US that didn't have lace code, then it doesn't apply.
@insomniac_743 I know far less about US Punk culture, would you mind citing and sharing any knowledge you may have (I assume you are far more knowledgeable on the subject than I am).
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
I agree with you, I don’t think it was intentional.
My sister and cousin used to be super into the punk scene and I remember that Doc Martens with red laces meant neo-nazi/white supremacist.
1 -
I think it's reasonably obvious that the red laces on black boots exist solely to match the entirely red and black ensemble Nea is wearing. The whole get-up is two colors, the shoes are just matching. Anyone rational person could work that out.
2
