Just me or does new gen regression feel like a hard nerf to survivor?
Maybe I misread the intention behind the mechanic?
Comments
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It is a nerf to survivor but it was needed to ensure that each regression event does something. If gen-tapping was still possible it would’ve been too easy for survivors to burn through the killer’s 8 regression events in some cases.
In other words, because there’s now a hard cap on the number of regression events, gen-tapping had to go.
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Kicking gens? Couldn't be me.
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It is not exactly a nerf, per se. It would be impossible to add an anti 3-gen mechanic with gen tapping still around.
But you can still escape just fine, of course. The new Grim Embrace + DMS meta is the actual problem that has to be addressed, imho.
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The problem I'm noticing is that Survivors being pushed off gens before they can stop the regression event and/or greeding the gen to stop the regression, then going down because the Killer was able to close the distance, is happening with far more frequency than games in which the Killer just locks down a 3-gen.
It's a net negative for the Survivors--the average match for Survivors has become more difficult, at the expense of being aided against 3-gen situations.
I follow all the logic that led us to this point, but my observation thus far has been that Survivors got the short end of the stick here.
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I played a game against skull merchant that 3 gen, we broke 3 gen so easily by exhausting all 8 regression events. the change works like a charm.
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Both sides received some nerfs but also buffs in that regard. Killers can no longer infinitely regress gens, because the amount of regression events was limited. This however also means, that each of them has to be impactful enough for the survivors to not simply bait them out and then push through.
I think what they did with gen tapping is a bit much (although a change was definitely necessary) but we will see how this works out. So far it seems mostly alright.
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Base gen regression is terrible.
Survivors just don’t know this. It’s not the end of the world if a gen regresses for a few seconds more.
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It definitely weakened survivors. Not the most massive nerf ever, but extra gen kick strength and no gen tapping are benefits the killer gets in every game, survivors will see the anti-3 gen mechanic come into play incredibly rarely.
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That's great to hear!
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Because killers 3gen less often?
Isnt that a good thing? Many people here contained about certain killers starting the match only to 3gen. This should be gone now.
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Interesting. My experience so far is different than yours, I haven't seen survivors struggling that much with the new mechanic.
Quite the contrary, actually. I've seen 3 gens being broken against Wesker, Trickster, Knight, Spirit... Almost my own as Freddy.
Yes, this patch cannot be called a buff for Survivors in any way. But as you've said, we can see why it was done this way.
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Well that’s good that it’s doing what it’s supposed to do then.
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You mean the needing to repair 5% of a Gen to stop regression?
personally I think the nerf was too harsh should’ve only been 2% or 2.5% like the old kick measures
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Meh.
I would rather see the actual 3-Gen Solution and the removal of Gentapping as Game Health and not as a Buff or Nerf.
The increase to 5% (from 2,5%) on Kicks is a straight Buff tho.
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No it isn't, the killer kicking gens came from infinite to limited, which doesn't feel substantial but is a lost cause in endgame if you have 2 gens left to protect, it ensures a more aggressive playstyle from the killer and reward early game pressure and killer litteraly cannot win a 3 gen scenario anymore, so you should just cope with it, and of course if as survivor you lose a 3 gen scenario you either messed up or had too much pressure on you from before the three gen scenario.
In conlusion, it's a nerf to killer's endgame and rewards good plays in early game and prevents 3 gen scenario to happen
I think it wouldn't feel so different for it to be 10% btw, so the killer feels like he does something and that the regression is signifiant, and i'd even say that the regression staying can somtimes be a detrimental thing for the killer and is just a worse version of ruin that desactivates and doesn't show when a survivor repairs a generator...
So idk what is your mental process to say that 5% is too much when even 10% wouldn't even be so good for the killer, 4.5 seconds of working on a gen is too little for the 2 second animation of the killer to be cancelled, not to mention that the killer's time should be more valuable than a survivor's and it being just twice as valuable afterwards is still not that much.
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How would that work? This entire thing is either a buff, a nerf or both. How would you turn that into a quality of life update with no balance implications?
The stronger gen kicks are a net buff but I feel it's a fair exchange for the loss of 3 gens in that sense. Playing around 3 gens is not really an option anymore. You'll burn through the 8 regression events and from that point everything goes south.
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It's a net negative for survivors who like to tap gens in view of the killer.
There are various ways around it, including hiding nearby, waiting for the killer to leave, then halting the regression.
If this results in more regression, that's the point. The killer cant just keep kicking it, so they need more value out of their kicks. It's still only 25% of repair speed though.
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I mean, it is a Nerf (both of it, for the respective side), this is true. But the goal was not to nerf something, the goal was to make things healthier.
And nah, it is just a net buff. If 8 Regression Events usually did not happen outside of 3-Gens (which was confirmed by the Dev), buffing the Regression to 5% is just a Buff.
As I said in another Thread, when someone wanted to argue that Killers needed this compensation because less gentapping would happen so Killers would kick Gens less often, Killers basically got compensated for a Buff with a Buff.
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Whether it is overall a better game is different than the question of did it buff or nerf a side.
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on Regression wise it is a nerf for Survivor but it isnt so hard Gens are still flying even whit the 5% Gen Regression for a Base Kick its still isnt so much to stop the Gens flying against a strong Team because of the Awful Map Designs
And the Anti 3 Gen Feature wasnt mean to nerf Killers who Plays normal it was Made for stoping ppl to make a Game last 1 Hour because the Killer is Camping bis 3 Gens
3 Gen Knight, Singularity and Skull Merchant are Dead now and get hard countered by this Feature but ppl who Play this Killers not as a 3 Gen Bots dont notice any Different
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True, but sometimes it needs both buffs and nerfs to increase healthy gameplay.
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Sure, it's just that's not really the topic. There were a lot of killers, and some survivors, who acted like this was going to be a big nerf to the killer side.
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It is a survivor nerf but you shouldn't be looping around a regressing gen anyways. I don't think it's a big deal as a survivor. It just comes at a bad time where survivors have been getting basekit nerf after basekit nerf lol.
But I do think gens shouldn't regress while blocked off or that the 5% should only apply to gen kicks not perks or addons.
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I think its both. Its a nerf for both survivor and killer as well as a buff for both roles.
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Not much hasn’t been a nerf to Survivor lately
There are legitimately accurate Buff/Nerf Lists lingering about that tell the tragic tale of Survivor evisceration.
The Devs dedication agenda to Killer empowerment greatly outweighs any positive attention Survivor has received, over the past 3 years.
fwiw, Killer was much worse off in the beginning
BHVR’s DBD narrative has become:
‘As Survivor~ Play SWF or join the SoloQ death rate tally machine and feed Killers easily their 3-4K’s… #’s, #’s, Numbers!’ It’s their approach to balance.
The hud was smoke and mirrors.
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3 Gens killer is still not always happen before the change. For some reason I had 3 Gens Knight more than SM in 3 Gens era. And its likely to face a Knight once in 15 matches.
Same to other survivors buff. Not all killer camp, or tunnel. Yes it happen quite frequently, but not 100% the case. And especially not happen at the same time.
So in 10 matches, its likely you have the use to basekit BT in 7 of them, camping in 1 of them, and 3 Gens in 1 of them.
But, as survivors, you will play that 50 extra Gen every match, no Gen tapping every match, Medkit nerf every match, self healing nerf every match, 33% Brutal strenght ; 25% STBFL ; 100% Shadownborne ; 40% PGTW.
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Killers got compensated as a whole for a mechanic that's only detrimental to a minority (ie 3 genners).
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The last one makes less sense.
Self healing was too strong and you know that.
If every killer on your end uses brutal strength, I guess you can be lucky that they don't use Grim Embrace + dms.
Stbfl got nerfed. (the wrong way)
Why is increased fov a problem now?
Pop is a game healthy perk.
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Dbd was a survivors playing ground for almost 3 years.
While I agree, that in the last year or two, killer got some huge improvements, I think that most of them are justified.
SoloQ improvements should be top of the agenda but sadly don't seem to be.
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For sure, Survivor’s free-for-all lasted a good while; The scripts certainly been flipped.
Hard Buffs/ Hard Nerfs have been taken to extremes on both sides.
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I know some of survivors' thing were OP, and needed nerfs
But my point is, the general buffs on killers affect on survivors all match. The general buffs on survivors dont, except the HUD.
- In most game killers dont see survivors get to self unhook with AFC, but all survivors game would see the weapon cooldown buff and haste on hit nerf.
- In most game killers dont reach to 8 kicks on the same Gen, but all survivors games have to play with the 50sec extra Gen.
The "buffs" on survivors are mostly only to prevent killers to play at its extreme. Nothing more.
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But these are good buffs. Killer needed some of these buffs in order to make gameplay more healthy. Gen tapping in my opinion was not healthy gameplay at all.
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They could've added anti gen tapping at 2.5% and left dry kick at 2.5% as well. Or even completely separated them so taking was 2.5% and the kick was 5%. But they didn't.
Gen tapping, by definition, is mid chase. So even if it took ~2 seconds to stop regression, that would've countered it just fine. The decision to require 4.5 seconds seems completely arbitrary here.
You seem to be arguing for the initial nerf, but aren't addressing the 'compensation buff' of 2.5% -> 5% here.
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Im not defending all nerfs or all buffs, but some where certianly necessary to increase overall enjoyment of the game.
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Im not saying that the mechanic they implemented was perfect by any means. Just that the idea is good. As far as i know, the 5% where implemented to compensate for 8 regression events.
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I experienced the new anti 3 gen feature in action yesterday (a Legion match on RPD). The Legion are a great killer to test this feature out because forcing Survivors to be near to each other by holding a 3 gen and winning the battle of attrition is really the only thing they excel at (they have several add-ons to help with this: Filthy Blade, Fuming Mixtape and Frank's Mixtape). They are a very weak Killer, otherwise.
RPD is (or at least used to be) a very good map for Legion. It's relatively small and often spawns close together and easy to defend gens. In this match, I got two in the main hall and a couple in nearby rooms.
This was a close game against a flashlight squad that could have gone either way. They played exactly as you might have expected, making far too many flashlight/sabo/body blocking attempts and it cost them the win. I think I would have lost against a more gen focused team. They had 2 gens almost ready to pop and as you can see from this image, I had already burned through all my regression events on this gen (luckily I had secured my first kill just in time):
Here's what I've learned so far:
- The 3 genning strat has definitely been nerfed. But it's still possible to defend a 3 gen even if you can't regress a gen anymore.
- It feels more important than ever to secure an early kill, now that I Know I won't be able to fallback on defending a 3 gen situation.
- Surge has been nerfed with this update. Hitting multiple gens in a small area is what it does best, but maybe not so much now. It was scary how quickly it burned through all my regression events on a gen. I'll probably keep using it, but I think plenty of other Killers will opt more for passive slowdown or gen blocking now.
- It has impacted "normal" Killer game play for me. This time I won, but I might have to rethink my strategy if I start losing games. Overall, I'd say it's a nerf to Killer (with gen tapping gone and extra regression as a fair compensation).
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So in summary, we nerfed one of the worst killers in the game.
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I dont see an problem, its easy to get back and fix the gen unless the killer is camping it, and then there is at least 2 other gens to fix
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It's a nerf. This is the consistent power creep for killers.
40% regression even without any perks. Didn't they make gens take longer how many times?
The math is atrocious for survivors when you look at it.
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The new gen system (and ill-thought-out STBFL nerf) have essentially nerfed every weak/slow/M1 Killers while leaving the powerhouses largely unnafected. In fact the bigger base kick damage and new Grim Embrace are arguably a buff to stronger Killers while weaker Killers don't benefit as much.
Blight and Nurse never needed to kick gens much or bring anything more than Pop and/or Pain Res (and even then, good Nurses and Blights didn't need slowdown at all) but every Killers on the weaker end of the spectrum does need some regression if they don't intend to turn the game into a 3v1 asap.
Not to mention non-regression perks kick perks (Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment etc.) now have a hard-limit and will chew through your regression events for temporary effects not related to gen-regression.
Side-note: the wrong STBFL nerf indirectly nerfed Pig since she was a common user of STBFL XD
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It was to be expected that it would come as nerfs / buffs. I'm not sure what other way there was. Can you think of one? I honestly can't.
We already see survivors that try to bait out the 8 regression events. If gen tapping was still as bad as before, that would be a huge nerf to killers overall. Tap the gen and now the killer either has to kick it again or it just won't regress. This becomes even worse when they don't stack gen regression (many do but not everyone). So there was some kind of change needed to gen taps (although I think this is overtuned). The 2.5% regression did nothing either. Now that killers can no longer kick gens infinitely, each regression event has to count.
So it's more 2 buffs to compensate for 1 nerf. I'm not sure yet how well this all works out and I'm open for changes to that. I have seen both extremes so far. Survivors that were completely unabale to keep up with the buffs and groups that got all 8 regression events out of the way and then pressured through with little to no trouble.
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If that killer 3-gens, but that's kind of what the system is for, no?
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It's a nerf to Knight. Suddenly kicking gens with guards makes no sense, again.
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Don't worry, gens are still going in 5-7 minutes, crazy how fast the complains started when the game is still a genrush meta and this is nowhere near enough to make most killers viable against good teams.
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It's not a problem, survivors really complain about 18 extra seconds not doing gens when genrush is killing the game along with camping and tunneling.
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@tjt85 asserts that 3-genning is the natural way to play Legion to the best of that killer's ability. I don't play much legion, but I can reason out why that is the case.
If a Killer who already struggles is having their most effective gameplay strategy removed, it is worth bringing to the attention of the developers.
I'm not necessarily here to argue good or bad against the changes. I'm observing what I believe to be an unintended nerf to survivors, but it is interesting to see which killers this specifically makes more difficult to play.
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3 gens usually aren't killer planned. 9/10 the 3 gens I get stuck in are because survivors didn't split gens well
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Its a hard nerf to survivor. Every single killer I go against now is using some kind of gen regression perk, often times more than 1, which basically just makes the new system even worse for survivors. It takes so long for survivors to recover from altruistic demanding situations and now we have to stay on gens for a few seconds after they are kicked to stop the regression. Whats next? 5 seconds to unhook survivors?
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Well, that would go against most of what ive read here in the last months. People using certain characters and sit in their 3gen for 40-60min straight. Apparently this was an epidemic.
So i think the mechanic dos its job. Same with face camping. These egregious cases are now hard punished.
Thats good in my book.
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We can kick a gen only 8 times now and you're still in here complaining about removing tapping. Tell me, what will make you happy?
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