15+ Hillbilly games, 0 Sadako games
Looks like nobody is playing her. I can't even test how bad she is (read: how easy she is to beat) atm.
I wish she has again the global stacks when not holding tapes. I think that could work if you just nerf a bit the ammout of stacks you quickly gaining. Lets say you get 1/2 stack (half) per teleport and you only get like 1+1/2 stacks if you get hit with the tape holding, etc. I think this is the only way to make her slowdown impactfull. 16m on powered TV is kinda meh, since Survivors know the range, disable it at no cost, etc. Its joke.
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I think leaning into her Condemned only playstyle will probably be much harder as compared to the previous version of choosing one Obsession target to focus Condemned on, deny them tapes when they do pick then up along with gaining PWYF stacks by not committing to a down until they are fully Condemned.
Going for the regular hooks with slowdown/chase perks and catching Survivors off guard while they do their tape run is probably how devs intend for her to be played similar to Pig
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Sadako leaves either immense counter play because her chase is bad or 0 counter play because of resource depletion and her two passives.
She's from the movie cool but I doubt she'll ever be even a mediocre design. She was uncommon when strong because she was boring just like twins and hag in the past.
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I played her after the update and it’s a terrible experience. I wouldn‘t advice anyone to play her.
Her condemned is not existent and her teleport is in it‘s weakest state ever.
They should give us her first version back, it was the best in terms of gameplay. You could chose between condemned and chase and you got good results with both ways. Now her teleport is weak AF and condemned is non existent.
Many people said she was weak in her first version, where I disagree. She was a really fun and good killer, but not for everyone, which is fine. They should have buffed her first version and she would have been perfect.
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Not surprised at all
Before the nerf she is already a weak killer.
She is now a MM who can't get to teir 3
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What might also play into this is many former hillbilly players who had dropped him when overheat happened now returning to him. His rework is without question the best rework the devs have ever done.
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if condemn mechanic is suppose to be useless.... at least buff the chase to a good level so playing m1 killer with basic teleport is more fun.
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Old sadako was a mid killer, old billy was a bad one,why play the mid killer that got nerfed when you could play the one who got buffed from being useless to actually being semi-decent?
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They need to lean heavier on her stealth aspect if they're making condemned that much harder to get. She's short and stealthy, give her some mindgame potential. Starting the chase while stealthed for example is asinine, completely removes any element of surprise.
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Chase begins when a survivor runs in front of a killer. Typically if you are sneaking up to a survivor, they aren't already running.
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I am playing her. Wanna see some matches?
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I get people condemned! Wanna see how unhealthy it is? (My matches take literally around 12 min each)
Gas heaven match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej3ZHR1JM4I
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i still need to test billy lol
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Well played, but please don‘t make behavior think she is in a good spot!
I can‘t quite understand how they lost that bad as high prestige’s, but they might not know how she works or ignore condemned. You got a bit lucky with the map it’s mostly deadzones after you broke some pallets. And please explain to me how your gens aren‘t flying.
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I've only played against her twice so far.
First match was on Rotten Fields and I got tunneled out of the game.
Second was yesterday on Léry's, everyone escaped. On both trials, no one got anywhere close to Condemned.
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Thx! I do think that they all played well. Two of them had com player on their profiles so take that how you want. I dont think comp means anything so.... Prestige also doesnt mean a lot.
As you can see, one of them was a TTV and i later watched their stream and found out that this team was a 3man or even a 4man with one leaving at a later point. They where pretty fun to watcch, but thats besides the point.
This match does not portrait how good Sadako is. The survivors did nopt play optimally. They goofed around from time to time and went for flashlight saves. This makes game way longer than they have to be. I presume that gens didnt go that fast because i was constantly applying some form of pressure. Either i was near them, chasing them or they had tapes to do. Gens slow down if nobody can work on them. I also changed the survivors i chased constantly.
These survivors did not play around me very well, no offence at all. I play almost optimally with one of the strongest addon combinations against people that go for flashlight saves. One addon being way stronger than it should be btw.... (ring drawing is bugged). She struggles hard.
This here is by far my longest match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA3qNNHUtJE
Also against very decent survivors (at least that was my perception). Its a rougher match on treament theatre. Please keep in mind, that this is one of her better maps and that i try to play optimally.
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I mean they pretty much killed the whole 'hooks lock in condemned' mechanic by limiting it to 2. That's just too little and no one is double-hooking as Sadako to get upto 4 because by that point the condemned kill barely does anything.
You still basically just gotta slug like always.
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With ring drawing, you should hook.
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True, but it's a shame that it requires an addon to be worthwhile and the basekit mechanic they added to try and encourage hooking is just so weak.
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Ring drawing is terrible now. When they don‘t have a tape it doesn‘t do anything and for lock in it isn‘t even worth to hook, but at the same time you have to hook, because condemn is terrible.
The old effect should return, it was far better!
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Im not saying shes good. Im playing her a lot right now. I said, that i would make her work and i think i did. It it healthy gameplay? Is it balanced gameplay? No. Im trying my best and the results are not that great. Survivors are still relatively oblivious to her new mechanics so it will only gp downhill from here.
She desperatly needs buffs.
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Its bugged.
It still spreads condemned via healing. Its her best addon by far.
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I hope they don‘t remove the healing part of ring drawing.
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I've been getting a lot of 4ks either because I'm forced to tunnel a tad for pressure since tapes are easy, or bully squads assume all Sadakos are bad now and apply no gen pressure.
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The devs need to make up their mind. I honestly cant be bothered to keep up with the reworks.
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She's boring and uninteresting. Woah a stealth m1 killer with an iq check gameplay mechanic and ether wins the game for you or does nothing
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Did they nerf anything other than her condemned playstyle? I don't feel like reading patch notes...
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I hope they do. Its not a healthy effect. The addon is strong enough already. She needs changes. Not the addon.
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They hard nerfed condemned, yeah.
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Shes in serious need for buffs in order to make gameplay more healthy.
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They have just moved on from one broken killer to another. Its sad that ... a majority of killer players enjoy doing this. I tend to be pretty forgiving in this game when I play killer but some people are.... taking their frustrations out in a video game and will do anything to win, including using horrible tactics (camping, tunneling, broken add-ons) to using broken killers ie: Nurse, Billy, Blight.
Sadako was never in need of buffs and certainly did NOT need what she had last patch. Maybe an update to her addons and the manifest no pallet stun. But the rest was a complete joke, I suspect defenders of this 100% only play killer side in this game. There is no way anyone who plays both roles thought this playstyle was fair or intended to face.
No data ever released by the company ever suggested she needed a significant buff. This is purely on the players that were struggling with her that had issues. Many wished for her to be brought back to what she was before the update. She is now back to what she was with little bonuses here and there. Which is fine.
However,
Billy is now in this unfair and broken category. He was buffed so much that its put him above blight (without broken blight tag of course) in power. His turn radius, his collision reduction, 0 overheat, 0 cooldown, movement speed, map traversal... ALL rewarded with overdrive which empowers all of these... All with a one hit down mechanic and can cancel/fake his power at any time. This is not where we should be putting killers in terms of their power, its too much. I dont blame survivors from inting themselves against him.
Similarly no data suggested he was struggling to such a low degree. I am guessing most of these changes are on the heels of people getting, a minority of their matches I might add, competitive SWF opponents that make the killer feel powerless. SWF is a complete broken version of playing this game we shouldnt be balancing anything killer side to match that level of play. Every killer out there already can stomp solo pubs just fine currently(this is excluding broken grim embrace and its combos).
To the developers:
Stop making changes to killers because people are upset in competitive SWF matches. Solo's are stomped, in the majority of matches, no matter what killer you use. I would also guess most SWF's (party friends, joking around) are stomped as well. The high end of grouped survivors are not what we should balance killer power around.
Thank you!
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Nice match, but I would have loved to see the builds the survivors had. I turn off the recording after that usually.
Also, remember that OP talks about Sadako in general - it is, of course, possible to win with her (just like winning with everybody else), the experience is just not the same.
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Sadako is not a good killer she deserves better.
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At least you are getting Billy, Ive done nothing but get Knights since he is back from the Killswitch... It's been a horrible experience.
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You don't need data shoveled at you to understand that Billy went from one of the most played killers for several years to being one of the least played killers for an almost equal length of time due to the piling on of limitations and baseline nerfs to his power and addons. Billy simply wasn't particularly fun to play as in the state they were in and needed changes that imparted some actual fun. Because even if it makes him harder to play against as a survivor the point of any killer is that they should be fun to play. Game takes both killer and survivor players to function and the biggest complaint is lack of variety in killers being played so the devs have to address that complaint by finding ways to get people play other killers.
You can do that by either crippling the killers being heavily played which will push players to try other killers, but it also is likely to just push diehard one tricks out of the game which is bad. You're more likely to get more people to stick around if you bring a killer up rather than forcing them down. Optimally it would be great if everyone played both sides equally, but that isn't the case and the devs have to meet the demands of two opposed sides with very different needs gameplay. Billy's strong now, but he isn't really broken and they didn't arrive at their changes purely based on player complaints.
Sadako's not in good state right now and I would argue she has never been in a good state because she's a killer who is being designed as if she is being slotted into an older version of DBD. She flat out needs a proper chase oriented ability if they are going to scale back condemned this drastically and probably should have had one from day one. Instant kills and passive slowdown through secondary survivor objectives worked fine several years ago, but that sort of thing doesn't work well without a way to engage in the key feature of the game which sadly is chasing. Sadako could be a map presence monster with an incredibly harassing chase if allowed the freedom to do so. Why they hold her back so hard when they want the instakill mechanic to not be the only thing people play for is beyond me. That took a step in the right direction during the PTB it seems, but then immediately changed course only making her that much weaker.
Honestly, I think Sadako just might be a bad fit for the game considering the difficulties the devs seem to have in crafting her a power that feels good to use and isn't horrible to play against.
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Most Billy's I've played against are doing the tome challenges, that's probably why there's so many of them. They're always doing the undetectable challenge, which is quite hard.
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Because Sadako has glaring issues.
Her stealth is pretty subpar. For some reason, she has a directional lullaby that's picked up by the VTR, so she doesn't really have that.
Her chase is pathetic. She keeps BL when cloaked and can flicker, which is nice, but when the pallet drops she has to break it and W key. Mind games don't amount to much when the opponent refuses to play.
Her mobility isn't terrible, but can be disabled so isn't reliable. She's also competing with killers whose powers are similar such as Alien and Dredge.
Before the patch, this was made up for by her Condemnation. It could build fast, encouraged her to hit and run (bypasses her weak chase), and teleport a lot. With it being less oppressive, she's back to bottom tier simply because she has no leg to stand on.
Want a high mobility stealth killer that specializes in hit and run tactics? His name is Wraith and he's free. Slowdown and stealth? Pig.
So... what's left for her? What's her niche? Girl needs a backbone, bad.
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That’s just it, her power isn’t supposed to be useless, and that was the whole point of the developers reworking her the first time. It was to make it more of a threat.
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No. However, it’s not just a place style, it’s her power, and it should be threatening and it doesn’t exist as a threat at all. That’s the huge issue it’s like playing as pig All traps come off instantly on the first try and the killer interaction to make it happen as reduced by 50% or more…
Sako has no anti-loop, and no Chase and a “meh” stealth but that’s OK, no problem, but her power has to be strong for a slowdown to make up for it.
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This is just not the case though.
Classic Sadako players could not stand the global condemn slug mechanic which has been removed. She received minor buffs to her basekit and pallet manifestation stun immune. So far decent changes for a pretty healthy state of Sadako. You still pub stomp if you have any experience on her. The range for condemn on the TV's is pretty fair I think as well.
Billy on the other hand is just being abused. A recent post I found here https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1af3e8f/the_billy_update_is_completely_over_tuned_7k_hour/ kind of illustrates what I am talking about. It's extremely unfun to play against and outright overtuned type of play. Coupled with the current broken perk, grim embrace.
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So did you think overheat was better where he was punished for literally using his power? Had addons that worked only while blinded? Had a miss chainsaw stun basically the same as a legion fatigue? And just felt so bad to play? Hell most people would tell you even if they brought back 2017 billy. He would not be good with what current characters can do. Because hes so map dependant. And his power is limited in loops. Overheat was BS and should never come back. They called it contriversial for a reason. So if overheat stayed because of sunk-cost fallacy. I hope overdrive gets the same treatment for billys sake. Hes gotten the funnest change from both sides ive seen. And its been very loved even from survivor players.
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The meme add-ons you gave are terrible arguments, bad addons exist on every killer in the game. Some much worse than billy.
Overheat, however, is a way on limiting his power so he constantly cant just spam his one shot.
You see this on
Oni running out of demon dash,
Bubba runs out of chainsaw swipes,
Plague runs out of red puke,
Meyers ... if he doesnt run infinite on an addon runs out of t3.
Ghostface reveal has a duration
This is something that is inherent to dbd. Non-infinite power, (lets ignore the blight-tag change that BHVR decided on giving infinite blight bounces and we should not buff any killers to nurse/blight levels either)
Noone seems to love billy's changes from survivor side so I dont know where you are getting that from. And the killer community is pretty divided. Classic players of billy are laughing at these changes, the link I posted is an example of this case.
Currently Billy is sitting comfortable in the No. 2 slot above blight now. Which no killer should ever be at that level of play.
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I don't want to make a new topic, can anyone share how to go against her now as survivor? I just played my first game post-update against her and didn't understand what to do. So she started off teleporting everywhere and my Condemned was building up. I tried finding a TV but as I tried to get a tape she came out of it and chased me down. She then tunnelled me and would teleport to whichever direction I was running and I couldn't get a tape. I ended up fully Condemned and dying. Depipped with like 4k bloodpoints. What's the best way to approach her now? My understand is that holding tapes won't stop Condemned now? Thanks
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You will get condement if you stand within 16m of POWERED TV when she teleports (but it has 10 sec cooldown before she can do it again with teleport, however her teleport itself isn't on cooldown). You can remove stacks to simply interact with any online TV and put the tape to yellow TV (that shows you where it is).
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Cheers. So by jumping to TVs in the directions I was running in, she was able to build Condemned on me because I was within 16m of that TV? And she was able to ensure I couldn't remove them at the same time because by teleporting it switched the TVs off? I spent what little gameplay I had just trying to avoid her and find a TV to get a tape.
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I disagree with this take on Hillbilly, and I've been getting him a lot.
He is fine. After so much time with that awful Overheat, it is good to see Billy fun again.
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Yes, it is possible if you run into her Online TVs a lot and she focuses on you.
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I have a lot less sympathy for SoloQ players than most tbh, because the problem you've got is people don't bother to learn how to play the game, and you can't balance around these people either.
I have less than 1000 hours in this game and been playing since May, so of everyone here, I have a pretty good idea of the "new player experience in modern DBD" than most... yes it is a monolith of a game to learn, but there is so much content available for it, anyone who wants to get decent at DBD can do so quite easily. I got to a capable level I'd say within 100 hours, maybe 2 months, which was easier than Counter Strike back in the day, which took me nearly half a year. Bear in mind, I also have been playing DBD with severe arthritis in my hands due to a genetic condition. SoloQ is not as bad as people say.
The problem with a lot of players I see again and again is they don't check their egos at the door, and they don't bother to learn how to play against atypical killers.
Pinhead absolutely crushes pub teams, to the point where for a while I didn't like playing him because everyone I played against had no idea how he works and made no attempt to deal with the box. However I liked and still like playing against Pinhead, because he's decently strong without being oppressive... I have that opinion because I actually bothered to learn how he works, and anyone who knows how he works knows Pinhead is not that strong, yet he absolutely crushes soloQ. Tbh, and not to be an elitist jerk... I've never understood why people struggle to learn facing Pinhead at all. His power is pretty simple and straight forward to understand to my mind, yeah it crushes you the first time, but after that you should be able to figure out and understand what the threat is and what you had to do... and I faced him a number of times in the throngs of noob central before I played him myself.
Old Sadako was in the same boat. She only really scored well because your average pub player didn't bother to learn how she worked. Though a number of people love her old design, she objectively had a number of design problems. I probably wouldn't have buffed her the way BHVR did, but her original incarnation was certainly not perfect, and did need buffs.
I'd cite her 100s cooldown on a TV after teleport vs. 70s from survivor disabling the TV as exhibit A. This is completely backwards and a baffling configuration, that I'd use as the obvious daft wrong answer in a multiple choice test for students studying game design. Requiring an iri add-on to turn those TVs back on as the main way of her becoming viable only highlights how daft that set up was.
Sadako just like Pig and Pinhead was actually quite weak, she only scored well on kill rate because all of these killers have the same thing in common... they are not intense mechanics killers, they are killers you actually have to think around and engage with their slow down mechanics. People say its hard to learn all these different killer powers, but for anyone even remotely interested in genuinely learning DBD, it is not hard, it just takes a little passion and effort. I am proof of it.
PTB Sadako was the nearest to perfect incarnation that Sadako needed, and I was hyped to play both as and against her... and I'm quietly hoping they just revert her back to PTB, preferably with @radiantHero23s fixes.
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It was almost the same build on everyone. Ds, dh, adren and the rest differed a bit. One had otr, one had had FTP + buckle up.
I'm gonna try to record that from now on, thanks.
These matches are mostly to showcase how bad she is right now, not how good she is. I'm using a bugged addon, that is way stronger than it should be, playing entirely around condemn and the survivors are not extremely aware. It still takes way too long for my power to do something. It's plain undertuned.
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We, the Sadako mains wanted to get rid of the original rework. That means a nerf overall.
The nerfs from the Ptb are just overkill.
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Thank you my friend! Well said!
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