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Upcoming Sadako changes
I found this on reddit, it it supposedly from the dbd discord, i believe it's real since the people in the comments aren't saying otherwise.
What do you guys think? The changes sound pretty good to me. I wonder if bloody fingernails add-ons are going be nerfed.
Comments
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Checked in the discord and yeah it's real.
I don't believe it fixes all of her current issues but it will help some.
Bloody Fingernails is about to be REALLY good unless they nerf it to account for the base change (which they might).
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Keep the condemn cooldown (reduce it to 6-8 seconds preferably), remove the condemn stack lock limit the way it was in the PTB. Last two changes are excellent that will help her in chase. It's an improvement I guess but I still don't understand why the condemn limit needs to be locked.
I'd like to hear what a Sadako main thinks though, as they might have a better take on this.
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These are some fair changes, considering the strength of tapes right now.
I'd like to have this left as is for awhile to see how everyone adjusts and if it puts Sadako in the right spot.
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I still think the condemn stacks should be able to lock in up to 4, but this is at least way better than her current state
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God no, she does not need a cooldown at all, not from her previous rework nor the one from last week, I’m perfectly ok what she got for the coming hotfix
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Thank god, thank you for listening
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Glad they listened to all the complaints, this should get her where she needs to be.
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The condemn cooldown was completely unnecessary. All you have to do is turn the TV off if it’s near the gen you’re working on. You can even turn it off while you’re carrying a tape, you will get 1 stack of condemned for doing that but that’s better than letting the killer teleport directly to you or getting multiple condemn stacks from her projecting elsewhere.
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Thank you for fixing her :)
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Can you please change the way the TV auras work; it makes her teleport in chase and to approach survivors really bad. Everyone just preruns when the aura disappears.
I still wish we get her OG version with passive condemned back and some of the old addons, but this will bring her in a good spot.
Thank you and please change the auras. 👍
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I don't think there should be a cap on the condemn lock in at all. If you can't max it out before the second hook, it loses a lot of its utility. Sure, you can still get there without the lock in, but it would really add some urgency to survivors getting rid of those stacks.
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If they weren't buffing other aspects of her kit I'd agree, however clearly they want to make her chase potential better and honestly I like that direction better than focusing on condemn
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Yes it would be so cool to lock a survivor with full stacks. I would always do that instead of moriing them.
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Hopefully there comes more. I think her invisibility should be buffed even more or reikos watch should get 50% bonus back.
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Respectfully, are you guys going to look at the add-ons again? We put a lot of detail in regards to our feedback with them or is this just a rough draft?
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theyre good but what is locking the condemned at 3 going to do? they need to remove it completely. its the same situation as 2 stacks. it doesnt mess with tunneling, itll just hurt non tunneling sadakos and the survivor will be on death hook anyway by the time the condem locks actually do something.
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What day do these changes go live?
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My opinion about the changes ;
Condemned cooldown - i'm glad this is removed because i feel like TVs turning off is enough of a deterrent to spamming condemned anyways. I tried it in PTB and it wasn't very effective.
Increased condemned stacks - I still don't understand why this exists, but it being at 3 makes it much less of an obstacle. Would be nice if devs provided further insight into the change because the original explanation didn't make much sense.
Increased projection speed duration - Was not expecting a change like this but i think it could be very impactful. If the bloody finger nails are unchanged it will definitely be a must have add-on.
Increased speed when manifesting - This is a great change that makes it more appealing to use manifesting in chase.
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Overall I like the sound of these changes but I still don't understand why the limit lock on is a thing. I just don't see how increasing it by one makes any more better. I mean survivors are given so much counter play against Sadoko since they constantly see on tvs. I see wish we could just get the ptb version of her since I never got the chance to try it out myself.
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I agree that condemned shouldn't be the focus, but if you're going to introduce a mechanic, it should at least make sense. If you can't max it before the second hook, it's almost useless. It becomes like when they changed moris only work after the second hook; it makes it more of a flourish than a feature. Their reasoning for capping the lock in is still nonsensical.
That said, I'd rather see her stealth/chase buffed than her condemnation.
One dead horse I'll continue to beat is that her lullaby should be removed. She's not Huntress, she doesn't have a ranged attack you need to game around. She's a stealth killer (with poor chase) that you can hear coming. It's stupid. It's too bad because the audio design is great, but the lullaby is an unnecessary handicap.
If they insist on keeping it, they should give her a chase buff. Like instead of having a slowdown when manifesting, give her a speed boost.
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I will believe that whenever they remove her lullaby, those changes won't make her fine in chase and won't fix her issues. But better than current version i guess
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Yup better than the current version, all we can hope is they continue to make better changes over time
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Agreed the lullaby is stupid, regarding condemn in her current kit, the upside is it provides SOME slowdown with them having to exchange tapes, assuming they continue to buff her chase than I feel we are heading for greener pastures
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If you spread comdemn well, a survivor on death hook can have 6 stacks they can't remove. This makes it pretty easy to finish them off with a mori. It's definitely way better than locking in 2.
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The 4m/s change will make it more viable to make demanifested mindgames and will probably make reiko's watch singificantly better, I am really excited for this change!
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What is the point of doing a mori on a survivor that is already death hook? I mean outside of the first hook the mechanic sucks because a normal mori makes hooking a survivor twice (and locking 6 stacks) pointless. However a single hook locking 3 stacks will defenitly be useful.
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Nothing is stopping you from going for 7 stacks of condemn before death hook with the changes. All the changes do is help make condemn finishers a bigger part of her kit.
Do note that her condemn mori is much shorter than a normal mori and faster than picking up and hooking. Plus you don't lose a hook to the sacrifice either. So it's not like there's no reason to mori a survivor on death hook.
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Well, survivors having permanent wallhacks on the TVs and a gigantic "don't step here" ring makes getting all 7 stacks incredibly unlikely even if they do get more locked in now.
Literally the best part of her kit is demanifested flicker mindgames right now, it's so bad. And I don't think these changes will actually change that either, just make her a little less masochistic to try and play
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I still think the limited lock in mechanical is unnecessary. The whole point of the lock in mechanical was to encourage hooking instead of slugging and limiting it even at 3 stacks imo defeats that encouragement. Also I'm with Sngfun where I just don't see the point of mori someone on death hook. Even from a survivors pov it really doesn't matter since they know that they going to die anyway. Like if a survivor has 6 stacks and on death hook the chances are they won't even bother doing tapes since being a 7 stacks on death hook mean absolutely nothing, they dead either way if that killer catches them. This also means the slow down that tapes are supposed to offer just disappear as soon as the survivor is on death hook. They can just take a tape to turn off the TV and sit on the gen not having to worry about anything really since tapes don't have any downsides and they really don't even have to bother delivering since they on death hook anyway.
Survivors already have so much counter play against her right now since they can see tvs at all times and her having a weak chase power. All I see this change doing is encourage more slugging when a survivor is on their 2nd hook in hopes to build 7 stacks so mooring them actually means something. Why hook a survivor just to lock them at 6 stacks knowing after that hook only means they going to die anyway when I find them and it also takes away the slow down tapes are supposed to offer since a dead on hook survivor isn't even going to worry about getting a 7th stack since they died anyway.
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Seems good, although I still think the condemned locking should not have a limit, and there should be an actual downside to holding tapes, whether it's passive condemned gain like in the first iteration, or you gain two stacks upon being hit with a tape like in the second iteration.
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This will definitely put her in a better spot. Especially the part about her manifesting at 3.68 m/s always felt a bit weird to me. It wasn't super impactful but it felt weird none the less. I'm not sure why locked in condemned has to be limited at all. Tunneling works with or without it, so it doesn't really do much in that regard.
Overall these are good changes and they give me a lot of hope for Freddy, @GeneralV.
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I still think the Condemned lock in limit could be raised up to a more threatening number like 4/5. For Condemned to still remain as a threat and for hooking to be encouraged, Survivors have to start worrying about their Condemned state after the first hook and not the second. That would be a nice compromise between Condemn Mori a Survivor with 0 hook states depleted and a Survivor on Death hook.
It’s also interesting to note that Manifestation got the movement speed buff . On short loops especially with the Telephone addon equipped, Sadako could catch up to Survivors for that hit pretty easily. This is a nice buff to her Chase potential.
With that being said, her addons still need looking at and there needs to be some demerit to holding tapes. The proposed changes are a step in the right direction and she needs just a bit more.
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agree with your post regarding mori working on second hook. Condemn is flourish touch than a feature. The buff improve her but the killer is still weak.
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I still suspect she'll be boring to play as and against. Her power design is just fundamentally flawed.
But who knows.....maybe this will make her great
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I like the Manifest and Projection buffs. I think these will increase her chase power a bit and provide a nice QoL increase to those playing her.
The condemn cooldown being removed is good if they don't plan to address her counterplay issues (which seems to be the case sadly). If BHVR did address these issues such as the TV auras and the 1s tape insert speeds, I would be okay with them keeping the cooldown.
Condemn Lock
I personally think they needed to make condemn lock in at 4 stacks to reward good condemn play. Especially given how much easier it is to remove and counter in this version.
If they don't make it 4 stacks I fear many Onryo players will just slug since hooking may not be worth it. At 3 stacks Onryo basically has to play a 3 hooks game while also spending extra time to build condemn, this could make condemn worse than traditional hooking for some and result in it just being a slowdown mechanic. Why should an Onryo player who wants to focus on condemn hook if hooking doesn't result in any advantages?
At 4 stacks however, there is an incentive to hook over slugging. A Onryo can lock in enough stacks to make the effort to build condemn and the effort to spend time picking up a survivor and hooking them worth it. This is critical if BHVR wants to avoid Onryo players slugging.
If they address the issues with her strong counterplay like TV auras and tape insert speeds, 3 stacks is perfectly fine, but without these changes though it should really be at 4 stacks.
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TV auras?
1 second insertion - action?
Dont get me wrong, im not ungrateful, these are good changes overall, but these two, especially the insertion animation are things that need to change.
She will be better, but tapes are still a non threat. The simple change from 1 to 2 will fix that.
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I think these are great changes overall. Instead of keep buffing her condement (would make her even closer to original rework), she gets quite nice buffs to chase. She will also be more comfortable to play since you don't lose any distance now in chase while using your power.
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I have fun playing her. She a killer with a strategic rather than a mechanical skill cieleing. Thats not to everyones liking, but definitely my cup of tea.
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Partially
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I agree. Instead of making condemned go completely on cooldown, they should make that only the one tv applies condemned when condemned would be on cooldown. Actually they should test if passive condemned on tapes effects her in a negative way, when not they should bring it back. Condemned lock in shouldn‘t have a limit I want to lock in full stacks instead of moriing someone.
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This is good, she is still on the weaker side I think, but it at least looks like her power is in a decent spot and settled now on how its gonna work.
Maybe after some monitoring she gets some more buffs in line with a lot of suggestions here.
1s action I think needs to go.
I guess the condemn cap is fine, they don't want it possible for a survivor to be permanently locked in with condemn, so fair enough. (though tbf... if they are max condemn... why would you lock them in other than for LoLs/pip farming).
I dont think removing nearby TV auras will make her much stronger tbh. The static affecting you is already clue enough and the TVs aren't hard to find/predict. I'd prefer them removed mostly because it just makes Sadako a little spookier, as you're not 100% sure exactly where she might pop out, especially in chase... but gameplay wise I don't think it makes a substantial enough difference really to care vs. competent survivors.
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Hooking someone with full stacks, instead of moriing someone, could actually backfire and I think it would be cool.
Actually removing tv auras would be huge, you are right that it still has enough counterplay, but you could at least try to go for tps in chases again.
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I mean yeah I agree with the conclusion, I think it's fine to remove both the cap entirely and the TV auras...
The condemn cap though is something that, although I dont agree with limiting it, I can kinda see the argument.
I don't like the TV auras either, but I'm a little less convinced of the TV aura impact though when it comes to better survivors. (Just to check my understanding as I'm on holiday atm and can't verify myself, the auras are visible when you're holding a tape for that TV and when you're in range of a powered TV right? We're only talking about the aura of nearby powered TVs?)
I just don’t think the TV aura is a big deal unless you're against inexperienced survivors. If you remove the TV aura against your average player who isn't paying attention and/or isn't mindful enough to react to the static and understand where the TV is, it's huge... but against experienced players who have a good handle on gen spawns (and by proxy TV spawns), they will usually be able to guess where the TV is based on the static effect alone, and thus, where Sadako and her condemn will come from when she ports. Having this knowledge ia fun to play around, and not having this knowledge is creepy and unnerving.
I would imagine the TV aura is more there to help new players out and thats the reason it exists... but I think the aura is overkill and unnecessary tbh and makes her less scary for players still enjoying the spooks. Just the fact you're in static should be enough to at least know you should move. As such the aura to my mind is not really that much of a benefit for anyone reasonably competent... but there is the chance even an experienced player can be distracted or misjudge things. Thus my main issue really is I think it does more to dimish Sadako's presence and fear factor, rather than breaking her gameplay.
In order of priority I'd list: -
- 1 second tapes should be 2 seconds. Allowing tapes to be inserted in her face is just sadge.
- Nearby powered TV auras removed to make her more scary/engaging. This is more fun for survivors in general at all levels I think.
- Condemn stack limit removed if she's still too weak.
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At 3 stacks Onryo basically has to play a 3 hooks game while also spending extra time to build condemn, this could make condemn worse than traditional hooking for some and result in it just being a slowdown mechanic. Why should an Onryo player who wants to focus on condemn hook if hooking doesn't result in any advantages?
that is kinda entire problem with the rework. you fail gain advantage for using ability. if they really want push this whole hooking condemn Sadako thing with her, why don't they make it so that when you hook someone, all other survivors EXCEPT the person hooked have their condemn stack lock-in? What this does is create incentive for the player to spread condemn by teleporting to televisions then hooking someone else to lock everyone else's condemn stacks. This creates urgency for survivors to constantly remove condemn or risk permanent stack that eventually lead to a mori.
so picture this, you tp to survivor A, 3 times, you find injured survivor B out of position, you down them, you hook person B. Person A now has 3/7 condemn stacks locked. You find person A again, you teleport to them 2 times, they have 6 stacks(1 from ring drawing because they holding a tape), you find survivor C, you hook them. Now person A has 6 stack of lock condemn. You teleport to them delivering the final stack. you chase them and mori them skipping all 3 hook-states using survivor B and C.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on3 -
I don’t have optimism for Freddy as much, mostly due to the licensing issues and I don’t think Behavior wants to touch him again and the community still has PTSD from Forever Freddy.
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He's due for some changes and it was already announced that he will receive an update in the future. I highly doubt Freddy being a licensed killer will be an issue. They could even make tweaks to Demogorgon when he wasn't technically in the game.
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That is true, but at the same time Freddy has been one of their most tricky killers to balance and haven't truly gotten him right at all yet.
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