The game is in the worst spot I've ever seen it in for Survivor
Not even a rant about perks. 9 games out of 10, myself or a team mate is just tunnelled from the first chase of the game and proxy camped just outside of the fool proof anti-camp system to death hook, rendering the game borderline over. Never used to be this way and it's beyond unplayable now with how rampant tunnelling is and how easy and punishment less (in-game) it is to do it.
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Tunneling at five gens is so normalized that it's insane. At this point BHVR want only SWFs playing the game that can work around the tunneling because the game is getting so damn stale. One person dead at three gens, GG go next. Awesome. Take me back to the days where every game of DBD felt unique PLEASE.
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It's funny we went from "I need to tunnel just to stand a chance" to "why wouldn't I tunnel someone out immediately and secure a landslide win?"
The devs spent way too much time reaffirming the people who play like this instead of actually nipping it in the bud.
But it's Ok though, they'll spaff out another mid skin collection and it'll all magically be ok again. Might not get to play the game anymore, but at least everyone's Feng will be pretty to look at while they sit in the queue all day
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tunneling is awful and survivors dont have good perks anymore and bhvr dont care about us
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It's definitely in a bad spot. I'm only playing for events and the Rift these days. At least I get something for my efforts that way
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The mindset of the community has changed over the years.
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I'm done with DBD for a while, they nerfed survivor way too hard. Solo Q is not worth playing, it's a terrible and helpless experience...
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It's always been the latter. Killers have never needed to tunnel to stand a chance; they just do it because it makes the match so much easier for them.
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Try playing as an m1 killer vs a team running exhaustion perks, windows and are on comms
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After 2022, there are more opportunities to feel comfortable playing solo survivor due to HUD implementation, Basekit BT, and OTR enhancements. Of course, it is not possible to escape all the rituals, but since it is impossible for either side to have a 100% win rate, I accept it. As someone who plays both Killer and Survivor, I have the illusion that the thread owner's argument is about a different game.
In the first place, the reason killers use tunnels and proxy camps is to reduce the number of survivors and reduce the speed at which they work on Gen, or to increase their ratings by executing as many survivors as possible. Scourge hook spawns are stuck at the edge of the map, and generators that should be kicked at PoP are far away. The reasons for tunneling or camping vary from match to match, such as not bringing a regression park in the first place, but with the latest patch, using a Gen Kick Park is significantly punished (or a glitch makes it difficult to kick a retreating Gen in the first place). There will be more and more camping tunnels in the future.
If you don't like that, shouldn't you equip OTR or create a build that won't be discovered before you get chased?
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you get that every game? Because Im pretty sure you dont. SoloQ gets the same in every game. Of course from time to time you get a baby killer, which is also something that doesnt feel rewarding, wining against someone below your level btw. Its not the same bro, you can still win as a killer against what you are talking about, try wining again a 5gen tuneler and camper playing solo. You cant.
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I have to be honest playing survivor is quite unbearable at the moment and feels like such a waste of time. Every game feels like the same rinse repeat scenario. Killer tunnels someone out very early on and rest is just pain res. pop and game plays itself without the Killer having to try. I'm slowly switching to other games where my actions and skill actually matter.
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Nope funnily enough I'm talking about Dead By Daylight on the Dead By Daylight Forum. I play survivor as SWF and SoloQ and its miserable if the killer decides to just tunnel out a player at the start of the game. I play killer almost as much as Survivor and I don't brainlessly tunnel out people at 5 gens. The games are harder but by proxy more fun cos that's the funnest part about Killer; the chases and being looped, with the reward being winning a chaae. Not hooking someone and proxying/sprinting back to the hook as soon as you hear the notification and removing them from the game, as if a kills secured at 5 gens or 4 the game might as well be over
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I think I'm over debating perks as both sides will always have cringe that cycles in and out, case in point the MFT/Hope/Resilience meta for Surv. Sure every game now is Pain Res/Dead Mans/Grim/Pop but that won't be forever. The issue with the game right now is the overwhelming majority of killers tunnelling at 5 gens because it borderline secures a win and there's nothing that can be done about it, only gen rushing as fast as your team mates can if they have the brains to do that in SoloQ
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My soloQ experience is waaaaaaaay different than some of y’all’s. I generally do better in a solo q. If we die it’s because the survivors with me made critical mistakes.
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solo has been dead for a while. 6.1.0 onwards this game continues to become more and more solo queue hostile with every single update. the only good part for the survivor that came out in recent times has been the indicators.
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Honestly feels like some people just want to be able to escape every single game in solo q since all the complaints boil down to "it's unfair that the killer tries to win"
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I agree
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This. The overwhelming majority of soloq games are usually 3v1 by 3 or 4 gens. Sucks. Really does.
Post edited by TheSingularity on7 -
Called it...
That's what happens when you nerf almost every other option. The best option will become even better.
Let's nerf slugging too, so we have it 10/10 games.
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It always feels like there's just a spark missing in games. Uniqueness I guess. The cycle is getting tiresome.
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You can't just blame it on the survivor by saying "oh why don't you just run anti tunnel perks".
Well obviously a lot of players don't have them. You need to buy a dlc to get them or being lucky with the secret shrine. RNG can sell you out by placing scourge hooks edge map. I still miss a valid reason for tunneling. Just chase the survivor into the direction of a scourge hook then.
I don't think that there is a different reason each map for tunneling. The majority of killers simply does it because they can. I never saw someone defending his tunneling with a reason. 99% of the matches you just get a "ez" from the killer before he goes on.
Yeah I get it was easy for you tunneling the weakest survivor out of the game after checking the profile for who has the lowest hours. Having only 3 survivors decreases your chances to escape so drastically you are almost guaranted to lose if you have more then 2 gens fully to repair.
And let's be real, there are very few who can loop a killer that long.
Loosing a match is part of the game. That goes for killers too. They cry that they would loose the match if they don't tunnel. So what? Maybe you don't belong in this mmr range then. Honestly if someone starts to tunnel at 5 gens in solo-q I just loose all my respect for the player.
I play both sides equally but after today (8 matches with just 5 gen tunnel killers) I'm honestly thinking about leaving not just playing survivor but the whole game for a while. It is simply not fun anymore.
And if a game is not fun anymore, it's dead.
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TLDR: It sucks, Maps, Perks, and Gen Speeds are the main reason why Killers feel the need to tunnel and changing some of these issues might help, while nerfing S tier killers to compensate, increase basekit BT to 25 seconds down to 8 in egc.
Get ready for an essay if you actually care to read it lol.
As a Killer main I do agree completely. I thought Survivor mains were always just exaggerating since I personally don't tunnel or Proxy camp so I played Survivor for a week straight, and my God it's almost every game someone is hard tunneled either that or it's just constant proxy camping. Basekit BT needs to be 25 seconds at least.
The problem however, is that there's kind of a reason for it. Gens are boring to do and feel like they take forever as Survivor, but in high MMR especially you'll see 2 gens minimum pop within the first 2 minutes if that, and sometimes 3 when they all get on separate gens. Meaning Survivors can have half or over half of their objectives done withing the first *two minutes* of a match. This leads to being forced to tunnel if you want a chance of getting a win, or even a kill. Gens need to take 100-110 seconds minimum but also have 20-30% more skill checks, this would make gens more fun to do firstly, and secondly it would also reward hitting Greats a lot more than currently since you'll have more skill checks. Also maybe throw in a different type of skill check like the one for hacking Skull Merchant Drones as a skill check that pauses your repair progress entirely but grants 2.5% progress when completed, failing it wouldn't blow up the gen since it pauses the repair progress anyway. Gens need to be more fun for Survivors while also taking more time in general so you don't see half the Objectives gone in 2 minutes. This is also why you see at least Pain Res or Pop in every single game, with Gens taking longer I think it would be fair to nerf Pop and Pain res by 5%. 20% progress and 25% current progress are still huge numbers and if gens take longer in general nerfing these 2 is only fair.
Way too many maps are Survivor sided, Game, Badham, Garden of Joy, Haddonfield, Hawkins, Red Forrest Mother's Dwelling in particular, Ormond (Not as bad as the others but still has tons of very strong loops, a good main, a shack, many pallets strung together back to back, good gen spread so on) Really there's only a few maps that are even close to being killer sided. Granted this also heavily changes depending on what killer you're playing but it's safe to say for every killer that is B tier or below (which is most) they all have the same good and bad maps, Killers like Nurse Blight and Chucky completely mitigate maps, they have no bad maps which is why you see them so much. Hell even Azarov's has 1 or 2 variants that are just super disgusting, Gas Heaven in particular comes to mind. Ironically the most balanced maps right now are all on Coldwind since many pallets were removed from them but there's still a few God pallets and some good pallets here and there with a shack on every map which is fair when filler pallets are scarce. A lot of maps just have far too many pallets, so many that Survivors can sort of just toss them without having to think about saving them because there's just so many. Or the map has an extremely powerful main + shack like Dead Dawg, or has both like Garden of Joy and Badham.
Then there are perks. Survivors have some absolutely disgusting perks and perk combos that are just impossible to play around at times. FTP+Buckle Up is clearly the most egregious example of a perk combo with 0 counterplay that is overpowered to all hell, WoO makes it so that there are 0 deadzones for Survivors, there's basically a giant yellow circle shouting "RUN HERE" so the Survivor can completely focus on Killer movement instead of having to pay attention to things like Pallet placement or which pallets have been used or which side the vault is on etc. Adrenaline and Hope both make it so if the Survivors get to end game your one final chance (And truth be told if you're not just hard tunneling this is the time when a good chunk of kills happen) is much, much more difficult, which is why these two are so popular, especially Adrenaline. Lithe and Sprint Burst are honestly way too powerful. The amount of times I won a mindgame at a pallet only for them to go sprinting to the other side of the map is too many to count. Sprint Burst gives you way too powerful a headstart and good players can 99 their Exhaustion and when they get in a bad spot can just fly out of it to the next pallet which they definitely know where it is because they have WoO.
All this put together means if you actually want to win as Killer you're sort of forced to Tunnel or Proxy camp, since Proxy camping and then going for the unhooker mitigates time wasted looking for next chase. And I don't think the solution is buffing weaker killers, imo the solution is doing some map changes, removing a pallet here or there, nerfing the stronger Survivor perks, buff some weaker Killer perks (because holy ######### 90% of Killer perks are either a gimmick or a meme) nerfing the stronger killers (Nurse, Blight, Chucky, Spirit are the main issues) to compensate for a killer buff across the board with all these changes, and do the gen changes I mentioned.
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Not sure what they expect, killers keep getting more and more restricted every patch. Can't hit off hook, can't grab an unsafe unhook, can't stand near the hook, can't regress a gen more than a certain amount of times, almost every regression perk nerfed with two practically being removed from the game (cob/oc), and now guaranteed full length wiretap for survivors that can't be countered by the killer which means no mind gsmes allowed. With how many restrictions being forced on the killer, of course tunneling out asap is the killer priority. When you remove all other possible ways to viably play, killers effectively don't get a choice unless they aim to lose.
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Yep it's why I force myself to play for the rift and that's it. It's not worth it anymore. The game used to be fun, but too many nerfs.
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Just gonna play devils advocate and throw a different thought out there for the sake of discussion.
If you're a survivor who regularly experiences this, I've noticed a correlation between the higher MMR you are, the sweatier the game is.
When I play solo, I actually come up against these things rarely. When I play SWF I encounter these things a lot more. It also changes based on who (and how experienced) I play in a SWF with... which is one of the reasons why when people keep spouting MMR doesn't work, I'm not so convinced.
I'm not trying to belittle or insult anyone, say anyone here is wrong, or denying their experiences... but could it be that the reason you lament the nerfs to survivor perks as much as you do is because you yourself play sweaty and in the past rode the strength of those meta perks to much higher levels and are now forced into a playstyle you dont want any more?
When you yourself had perks strong enough to smash even the tunneling killers, doesn't that in of itself highlight the strength of those perks was too high?
From a newer players perspective, I rarely run meta perks, and even though I always try to win, most games I play as solo survivor are pretty fun for the most part... it's only when I start playing with people who tend to sweat that my games tend to get sweaty... which sounds obvious... but it also sounds like the problem you're experiencing.
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Maybe if the Devs properly gave killer buffs to where they dont need to tunnel to win, you would see less of it.
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So over this argument. Killers were literally in the best spot ever during the gen kick meta era and *still* tunnelled. One of the devs said it best once - if you feel you need to tunnel to win, then you've probably tunnelled yourself into an MMR bracket that you don't belong in.
You're tunnelling because you want to win 100% of your matches in a game that's designed for you to win approx 60% of your matches. So no wonder you feel you "need" to tunnel. Fact is, you dont. You just need to get comfortable losing sometimes.
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There are literally experiments of high level killer mains on EU winning 90% of their games as an M1 trapper with zero tunneling, zero power, and zero camping. All of it was live streamed. I'm so over the "you can't win without tunneling" when better players than you have proved that it isn't true.
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I don't care about escaping or dying...just give me a worthwhile, meaningful match. Rarely do I get that. Gamplay has become too predictable.
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If the outcome is the same with Killers tunneling, and pro killers not tunneling, Why does it matter how a killer plays. Why cant people who bought a video game, play the game within its mechanics.
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Exactly. I love the rare matches like that, even if I don't escape and die. At least the match was fun and fulfilling.
Also I love your forum name, FF4 is awesome.
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Yeah, thats my experience too, but when i say it on this forum im told that im exaggerating, and that its really not that bad as i make it sound.
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Nah. I'll even say it with y'all. It's getting out of hand as of late. I play both sides tho I main Surv now cause killer is stressful. Normally I'd stick up for killers but the way they're playing now is ridiculous.
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Tunneling is out of control. This game is not worth it rn. I have more fun in the queue waiting.
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I may not be the biggest Survivor Main here, but..
Have you ever noticed the need for precise timing when hitting Killers with a pallet after they complete the pick-up animation? If the Survivor successfully executes it, an audio confirmation is heard, but the Killer does not drop the Survivor for the hook. Perhaps it's time for bHVR to revisit and address this issue?
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Okay and those are some of the best players in the world. I never understood why people bring up this sort of thing. Like 99% of players cannot do what they do, it's completely irrelevant. It's why I also hate when people do things like "Oh I saw a pro player use this item/weapon/build so I'm going to use it too!" it makes 0 sense.
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If the most effective tactics are the most miserable to play against then the game's design is flawed. Removing someone from the start of the match is the most anti-social way to play any game. It's unavoidable in some games but DBD is not Fortnite. Denying a person the ability to participate in the match is the worst thing the game could encourage. Not to mention that losing a survivor early effectively dooms the match for survivors. This is made worse by the fact that most survivors can't loop very well, so a match can be lost within the first couple of minutes. Meaning survivors are stuck playing through a match that is already lost.
This doesn't mean that the role of killer should be weaker, it just means that the game should be designed in a way that the tactic that makes everyone the most miserable shouldn't be the most effective way to play.
The game should make hard tunneling harder to do and reduce the ability for coordinated teams to rinse generators. As in they should nerf the beefiest toolbox setups.
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