I'm glad this game mode exists.
Comments
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Pray tell, how can survivors genrush with nothing but their base kit?
They’re just doing their objective. They can’t choose to make that objective go faster, as much as killers can choose to go after the vulnerable surv over and over.
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I was responding to a post referring to the game in general.
Yes, killers tunnel in lights out mode for easy wins.
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Well. Survivors tend to focus X specific generators (X= amount of survivors not in a chase) instead of spreading the progrrss among all 7 generators.
Survivors btw *choose* to bring a toolbox to do gens faster.
Survivors also seem to prefer to stay on the same gens which already have progress instead of going for a new one. You know, the "vulnerable" ones which can be finished faster than new ones.
Not to forget not going for saves/unhooks instantly but staying on gens right before stage 2.
Tunneling and genrush both are just doing the objective. Except people shame killers for doing it and forget theyre doing it as survivors.
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Thing is, the game mode is cool for the theory
But, in practice, you don't get a jumpscare killer who get you and try to create terror and insecurity, he just focus on one survivor, even if the other try to body block or be in front of him, he want the unhooked one
And if you add that some killer gen benefice from the darkness (Légion, Doctor, Myers, Ghost,..)
The tunneled survivor can't play , that's what people are saying
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People can’t bring toolboxes in this game mode, tho.
Also, gens don’t play the game. that’s a false equivalence.
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Me when I get basekit ds and start disabling the killers setup because you do not need collision to use emps, the box, turrets or disable any trap and if the killer tries to stop it they get punished lmao.
Love how people loudly make fun of the devs when they roll an update with huge oversights when most solutions proposed by players contain huge oversights as well.
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I can say for a fact there has been no tunneling at all for any of the matches I've played yesterday.
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Congrats for not experiencing what the majority of people here have I guess
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I believe that's just a variation on the survivor bias theme. (As in the selection bias, not the survivors survivor)
People generally don't make post about NOT being tunneled. You see how using the amount of complains compared to the amounts of not-complains doesn't tell anything.
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This game mode really makes sound matter and I feel like ppl don't get that. Survivors need to stay away from loud noise notifications spots as much as possible and heal up away from hook. 90% of tracking is from sound now.
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What if the killer was just hiding behind a rock near the hooked survivor, just waiting just for tunneling? Hm? Because it's that the main complain, not being lost of what to do
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I certainly hope it didn't take them more than a match or two to understand because it should be quite obvious. If they don't get it ...
I mean, the generators are already making noise at the start just so the killer can't immediately rely on this. That should be a pretty strong clue.
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Isn't the anti-camp triggering then?
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It makes me wonder how things would go if instead of hooks, there was cage of torment treatments and they swapped who made noise. Make healthy survivors make noise and injured survivors stay quiet.
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I've wondered for the cage too. This may help survivors. (Or it may be a death sentence.)
Injured survivors have to make noise of pain though. Otherwise it removes some depth. Getting healed is more a priority in this mode.
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I tried playing Plague and yeah... survivors caught on quick that it's better if I had infinite red puke than if they were sick.
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Strangely enough, the anti camp system seems to not work
Technically, without a visual clue, you got a little sound, but there's none
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I didn't think about Plague. It may be another killer to disable for that mode.
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There's no reason to disable any killer for a week long mode that isn't meant to be balanced. If you don't enjoy the mode, don't play it. No one is forcing people to play the mode.
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Tell that to Freddy, lol
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Freddy isn't disabled for a balanced reason. The devs said they couldn't get his Dream World effect to work nicely with Lights Out effect.
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point still applies for regular gameplay.
completely irrelevant.
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His power is the dream world, and it didn't mesh properly. You could say the same thing about Legion who is only suppose to see killer instinct from ppl in his TR, or Doc for the same reason.
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A slap to the face after being hyped for this modifier.
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Legion's power being stronger due to the modifiers is not the same thing as Freddy's Dream World not mixing well with a visual effect.
It's a mode you don't have to play that lasts for a week. We don't need to disable more killers that work just fine with the modifier.
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The amount of complaints has always been consistent, now it's been multiplied by a lot. People are obviously sick and tired of it affecting modifiers this badly since it's encouraged and the optimal playstyle. No one enjoys tunneling unless the killer is bad and makes mistakes or the survivor enjoys making content to post. I don't think I've seen a serious post here praising tunneling in any way.
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This would be an amazing counter argument if survivors were also able to heal hook states, but as it is, it's just a flimsy excuse. Survivors need to finish a generator to lock their progress, whereas killers just need to hook people once and their progress is already locked.
Moreover, survivors finishing gens lowers the playable section of the map for killers, making them easier to patrol, reducing map size even more and making it more likely for killers to stumble upon survivors even by mere accident. Meanwhile, a killer tunneling a survivor out does not make it easier for the remaining survivors to progress their objective and they in fact make it harder for them.
Apples to oranges.
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Legions power isn't stronger because of the modifiers, Legions power is acting against how it normally acts. Legion NORMALLY would not gain killer instinct without a TR. This is an example of a killer power that was changed to allow it to function whereas it wouldn't otherwise.
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The killer's TR and Lullabies are not 0 in the game mode. Survivors just can't hear them.
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Yeah... typically that means there's no TR if neither sound nor the visual TR can pick it up.
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That's not correct. The equivalent is survivors being able to heal themselves. That's survivors removing progress towards the killer's objective of getting hooks. They also have flashlight saves, bodyblocking, saboing, pallet saves, and perks to reduce wiggle time.
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The modifier just makes it so survivors can't hear the TR or Lullabies. The TR/Lullaby still exists. If survivors were made Oblivious by the modifier then Legion's power wouldn't show anything, but they are not made Oblivious.
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Your entire argument for why Legion's power works is that the TR exists in a state we can't perceive, and your argument that the TR exists... is that Legions power works.
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It's how the mode works since killers still project their red stains and survivors aren't given oblivious status.
Survivors still get BT off hook despite no status icon appearing. Killers still get bloodlust despite no status appearing.
The mode is full of "thing exists, but cannot be perceived."
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The map only shrinks if survivors 3gen themselvres. If they instead leave the furthest apart gens for last there isnt a difference.
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I'm not talking just for me. Somebody pointed out that Doctor and Legion are a bit much in this mode and I agree. And in a lesser extent it's true Plague may be too.
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There's a difference between no HUD showing icons and the status not existing.
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You completely missed the point.
Just because you don't perceived the status icons doesn't mean the status isn't there. Same thing with the TR. The TR exists despite your inability to hear it.
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It's just a week long mode and Legion and Dcotor aren't exactly top tier killers normally. Let those killers have their time to shine in a limited time game mode.
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At higher MMR levels, tunnelling is definitively needed for a chance to win. (Easy to prove: just play and keep winning then see how will it goes without tunnelling)
I don't think it's even remotely fun to do it in the average MMR. But that's because that level is a bit easy for me.
An average killer overwhelmed by a strong build & toolboxes has no choice if he wants to win.
On the survivor side I don't mind being tunnelled myself. It's the only fun part of playing survivor (that and hiding in plain sight). What else is there to be? Quick time events on generators? Meh. I'll take the fun of mind-games and of chases and if I'm being killed I'll just queue to the next match.
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The status icons aren't there because the Hud itself is mostly gone. In-game sounds on the other hand are completely separate. The heartbeat is not just a neat reminder you are in the TR. The heartbeat IS the TR.
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There's nothing different about it. They decided the survivors can't hear TRs and Lullabies while still allowing the TR to exist. With the modifier the Heartbeat is not the TR.
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...have a good day
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That I agree with. The way I see it, Nurse isn't very good on that mode because of the field range feels smaller than her blink range. That's blind blink after blind blink.
I was curious about Plague and I've just played her. It wasn't a slaughter-fest but the survivors had basically the choice between 1-hit or getting range-red-puked. Finding them was almost as easy as with Doctor.
The second game was against slightly better survivors (judging by their moves and technique) and it was a slaughter. Too easy to spot them, too easy to chain with the red puke.
So, I feel like she is a bit too strong.
See it as my scientific curiosity more than anything else.
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"Old" DBD had tunneling and arguably much worse tunneling as for a considerable amount of time there was nothing that could be done about it.
There is no version of DBD that can exist that won't at some point have tunneling and still be the same game you want to play. More playstyles should be encouraged, but it isn't as if that isn't already happening. As long as the incentive structures and gameplay stay largely the same for both sides you will always have some form of the things you don't like. To even really make substantive changes to tunneling, we all have to agree on what constitutes tunnelings because funnily enough while everyone seemingly hates they don't universally agree on what is and isn't tunneling until you get to the furthest extremes on either end of the spectrum.
You're never forced to run anti-tunnel perks especially now when the best anti-tunnel perk, borrowed time, has been basekit for a couple of years now. You also aren't really punished for spreading hooks unless your overall gameplay has a lot of other inefficiencies or your preferred killer is severely limited in how they can approach the game. The ultimate counter to tunneling though has never been perks even when DS was turbo broken for years. It's always been teamplay that counters a hard tunneling killer unless you're in the top 5% of players who've actually mastered how to run every tile optimally and have the reflexes to dodge hits.
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That is unfortunatly wrong. The only way killer would stop tunneling (by rewarding them) is the existance a strategy that is even more effective then tunneling. And if that happens, the game is in serious serious trouble, even more then it is already.
The only way to make people stop tunneling is by punishment. DS 5 seconds is the first step into the right direction, but i think even that is not enough.
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I prefer having an extra health state and being able to choose a safe loop over getting tunneled immediately off hook but you do you. It's fun when the pressure isn't on you to get a five gen chase because a killer (usually really good with their abilities) wants you out of the game and your team completely depends on your mind games to work.
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You know that's not true lot more could be done. More was done before to ecourage killers to not tunnel with old ds...
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Old DBD had anti-tunnel perks that actually worked like Dead Hard (albeit they were busted) which helped prevent tunneling. Borrowed Time was ran very often as well. As I said before, basekit BT can hinder more than it helps as being wounded prevents anti-tunneling perks from doing their job. You aren't forced to, sure, but killers can very easily wait out ten seconds and body-block at places like basement or just hit you and give you a little speed boost to get to whatever loop possible.
If you think you aren't punished for spreading hooks, compare a tunneling game with a game playing like that. You don't get any benefits from playing like that and, if I'm wrong, I'd like you to explain how without mentioning skill issues in any way.
Teamplay in solo queue is non-existent (majority of the playerbase). It's basically a 1v1v1v1v1 as to who will "win". This is a huge issue due to MMR doing what it does best. Either fixing MMR or preventing tunneling would be the two best options for the future.
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"Old" DBD had tunneling and arguably much worse tunneling as for a considerable amount of time there was nothing that could be done about it.
Depends on how far you go and what version is being taken into consideration.
Because you can reach a point where survivors had the DS + UB combination to stop tunneling, and more resources to use in case they were being tunneled. Meanwhile killers had BBQ as an incentive to not tunnel, plus the possibility of rendering half of a survivor's build useless.
Essentially, 2019 DBD after Plague's release. Considered by many as the most fun the game has ever been. This is taken directly from here, by the way, you can search for those threads if you would like to.
Was that enough to stop tunneling completely? No, and I think nothing will ever be. But tunneling wasn't the norm as it currently is, and I think that was something we should return to.
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