Can we fix gen rushing
Some will say gen rushing is not a thing, but it is. Gens get popped so quickly, even perks can help that... The devs unfortunately nerf killer perks that were perfect, and the generator update is basically a nerf to killer. it's not even about being good anymore, games are like 8, minutes sometimes, and then loops are every 8 meters at this point and the game is just a little annoying at times. I'm hoping Behavior can work there magic and pake gens take longer or something, killers shouldn't have to gen perks to slow people down, especially when there nerfed 24/7.
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The devs unfortunately nerf killer perks that were perfect
Name them. They recently buffed Grim Embrace, which is arguably the most ridiculous overpowered slowdown perk since the existance of the term slow down.
and the generator update is basically a nerf to killer
It is a buff for killer. You never reach 8 regression stats anyway, but killer got +2,5% extra on top of the already existing 2,5% kick. And they removed Gen taping. If you reach 8 regression stats as a killer on a single gen, you probably have already won the game.
it's not even about being good anymore, games are like 8, minutes sometimes, and then loops are every 8 meters at this point
Pallets have a spawn logic. It depends on the map but they spawn at least 14-20 meters apart from each other. Said that, most maps are full of deadzones. Many maps come with 8-10 pallets. The overall average is somewhere between 12 and 13 pallets. Most pallets these days are super weak. Jungle Gyms are super weak compared to how they used to be.
"anymore"
What do you mean anymore? For survivors, kinda. The game is the by far most killer sided it ever was.
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I have to disagree with The grim embrace, 12 seconds is very short. Nothing here stated anything against gen rushing, but you have great points.
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4 times 12 seconds (and the 4th time 40 seconds) on every generator is short? When you do the math you will realise how much slowdown this is. On top of that, it is working with Dead Mans Switch. So it is potentially 30 seconds eatch time. The game entirely locked for over 2 minutes for two perk slot is insane (and DMS still works after GE).
I did not state anything against gen rushing, because gens are fine. Lets say we would increase the time it takes to repair a gen from 90 to 100 seconds, what should the survivors get in return? You probably know that killrate is already very high (~60% on average). They need to get something in compensation, and it gotta be something big, most killers probably would not like.
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You leave a huge point, I can't say that I may be wrong. I never use grim embrace. Let's talk about Call of brine, or Hex Ruin? They were massacred, any thoughts on that?
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Unless they massively overhauled spawn logic in the last ~half a year, no, maps don't have "8-10 pallets" and "12 on average" the lowest I've seen on a small test I did was 12 (only one map) and many maps had 15+ pallets with some over 20. The average was 17.
That was from august and the numbers are from randomly picked maps. Funnily enough it was in response to someone else who also used "8-10 pallets", although as an average in that case.
to quote that old post:
"On average there's 17 pallets on a map. Saying "8-10" is some strong survivor copium/bias. It's roughly double that. That's not even including maps like Cowshed, The Game, RPD, Garden of Pain, or Borgo."
14-20 meters also isn't much. That's 3-5 seconds apart.
Original post here with numbers if you care to check (friendly reminder not to necro):
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522399#Comment_3522399
Post edited by MrPenguin on2 -
I haven't been gen rushed in a while, probably because I run grim embrace but either way with the new gen update is much harder to gen rush.
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"and the generator update is basically a nerf to killer."
If you're genuinely getting genrushed, your match shouldn't last long enough to run into the anti-3-gen, though.
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Pretty much nailed it on grim embrace. Its just a worse, global version, of eruption. And this one has 0 counterplay.
Edit: I am referring to old eruption where it stopped the survivors from doing anything.
It does the exact opposite of what it was intended to do. Killers are using this to camp/tunnel since they have to worry about 0 gen prog so they can force a stage 2 or trade. And then the 4th token at 40 seconds? Lol?
No idea what they were thinking with this perk
Post edited by ChuckingWong on3 -
Seems pretty alright
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Gen rushing is the main reason behind 3 gen merchant, it's nuts
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I remember solo queue during the gen kick meta. Even a mediocre killers could trash decent solo queue teams with minimal effort. You just dragged the match out until most resources were gone and survivors were so bored that they wanted to die and move on.
I've still had killers drag out matches over 30 minutes by leaving chase to kick gens. Still didn't reach eight hits on a single gen. Didn't need to. Everybody was miserable and wanted out by then anyway. You need changes that don't harm the majority of the playerbase. Solo queue players can't keep being collateral for SWF being too strong.
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That's not true at all. Chess Merchant is just an easy way to win, it's nothing to do with genrushing.
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3-gen merchant IS chess merchant.
Only because the definition of 'genrush' changed from 'survivors bring a loadout stacked with gen speed improving perks and tools' to 'a survivor completed a gen once'.
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So how do you fix that without kicking everyone else in the teeth?
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The most common solution I see brought up is secondary objectives for survivors.
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Sounds a bit too ambitious for BHVR. I'm still expecting the 17 year long Twins rework to be a few number changes and some bugs fixes. Obviously with a side of new bugs.
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Sad but it does feel that way.
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It's difficult to imagine what a healthy meta for killer looks like. Camping and hard tunneling are anti-social and just stresses people out instead of generating a fun experience. Extreme gen regression is incredibly boring to play against and almost insurmountable for most solo queue teams.
If I had the option I'd have a game where killers are substantially more lethal and camping and tunneling were much harder to do. But that would require a huge rework to the game as a whole.
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Well, since gen rushing is literally the only counter play to tunneling, you're asking for tunneling and gen rushing to be nerfed together.
The lights out event going on right now is 100% empirical proof that even if the devs deleted gen rushing, the killer can guarantee win the game by just camping and tunneling every game. Gen rushing doesn't exist in that mode, there's no items or perks, and literally zero posts that it's a problem in that mode.
You know what there are dozens of posts about? Tunneling in lights out is out of control.
'Gen rush' is the only way to combat tunneling in the entire game, and deleting it entirely makes tunneling an auto win condition. It also shows that 'gen rush' is the only thing keeping tunneling in check right now.
And I say 'gen rushing' in quotes because shorter chases, and zero slowdown, is all it takes to delete 'gen rushing' entirely. It's not a perk or item issue, it's a problem that killers will do everything to win. And it's braindead simple to use overpowered perks (Eruption, grim) and easy 'strategies' like camping and tunneling to artificially inflate their MMR to the point they're over their heads in both tracking in chase skill.
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If you want a much slower game, use Grim Embrace, Pain Res, Dead Mans Switch and Ultimate Weapon. GL survivors, you will need it.
Hex Ruin is still decent in my opinion. While it got buffed recently, they indeed nerfed Ruin (multible times) during its lifespan, but even the old Ruin would have been overshadowed by the even stronger Perks we have now. Besides those i mentioned, Pop or Jolt aka Surge are always strong picks.
I use Call of Brine only with specific builds. A favourite of mine is
- Huntress Lullaby
- CoB
- Overcharge
- Oppression
This is not my creation, i saw it on youtube (on Freddy). I was surprised how well it works most of the time.
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