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Should anti-facecamping be buffed?
It feels like it does nothing outside of face camping. Proxi camping or even few meters away from hook is still pretty much good and this does nothing to adress it. What are your thoughts?
Comments
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Why should a system intended to work against facecamping work against other tactics?
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Not too much, just to ensure survivors can't exploit it, but yeah I would probably buff it a little bit. If you stand on the outside edge of the zone that fills the meter, it doesn't even fill up all the way before you reach 2nd hook stage. Most of the killers that were good at denying unhooks from close up before, can still do it almost as well (if not just as well) from 16m away and just move in once a survivor gets close (or use their ranged attack if they have one).
I'd also like if other survivors were able to see the meter on the HUD, it could just be like the gen progress icon we already have but with a hook icon instead.
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Can get some QoL buff & changes but AFC is mostly fine as it is and working as intended imo
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It really needs a buff. Apart from literally just face camping, it doesn't seem to do too much. It doesn't deter killers from staying away from hooked survivors as much as it should have. At best, its only stopped the face camping. Thats good, but it needs to encourage killers to go around more places than just stick around the hook area.
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I can't tell you how much I appreciate the fact you used the correct terms; having to reply "it's an anti FACE camp mechanic" was getting really old.
What your question boils down to is, should there be something done to reduce the effectiveness of camping?
My personal opinion is no... we have a very diverse cast of killers, but the prevailing trait that separates the best killers is mobility. In DBD the simple truth is that mobility is king... it is THE most valuable asset that can be in a killers arsenal, followed in second place by range.
As a result there are some killers lacking both these things who just straight up lose if they try to run back and forth across the map, and only get a few key moments that can win or lose the game. Those killers can create more moments for themselves making things like saves tougher on survivors. The extreme examples being Trapper and Bubba hooking in basement. This is the main scenario where their usually very limited power comes alive.
Realistically I don't think you can bridge the gap between mobile and immobile killers... and unless you can find a way of making less mobile non ranged killers at least in the same league, you can't remove camping.
There is also the fact that, if a survivor team plays smart and has the right set up, they can absolutely crush a camper, which is why fast killers don't bother to do it, they can afford to leave hook and pressure without fear of falling a long way behind just because they walked the wrong direction after a hook.
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I would love for them to do something about Myers facecamping with tombstone
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The AFC mechanic only work if killers FACE camping, while the others keep doing Gens to make it work.
The proxy camping though, killers can simply keep the distance similar to the rescuer, then BAM, the AFC does not exist.
It just make it harder for survivors to recognize its a "Face camping" and waste alot of time to try unhooking, leading Gens cant be completed before the hooked teammate dies.
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The meter progresses far too slow regardless of the situation. Huntress and many other killers still hold the ability to camp the hook from outside the hook radius for the bar to progress while still not losing or risking anything by doing so. Anyone who tries to go for the rescue will still be downed just the same before able to do a proper hook trade.
The meter stops moving as soon as a survivor enters the hook radius, instead of progressing slowly. Makes no sense and encourages Killer to facecamp.
When a survivor is downed near the hook, despite not having the ability to unhook the survivor, the meter is still paused. THIS MAKES NO SENSE, even if you factor in the possibility that the survivor may get back up with a perk and then rescue.
So many years of waiting for anti-camp feature to be implemented to the game and BHVR fails to implement a proper one. I simply cannot understand how hard it can be. You have so much feedback from your community and you still dont listen.
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No it works as intended, antifacecamp
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AFC at least make them back up from the hook.I feel it make saves slightly easier when the killer don't have clear line of sight of all approaching angles. Which is better than before but u kinda right about it still. It just face camping from a distance 🤣🤣
People love playing semantics so i see no point in debating what is actually face camping. I think the system is acceptable in it current state
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100% of all my survivor matches are proxy camp and tunnel out. very boring, brutal in soloq. I dunno if anyone else's experience is the same, but I've given up on survivor. The ATF needs to at least progress slightly faster as you can still facecamp well into 2nd stage easily.
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I wish killers couldn't slug someone coming in for the rescue to disable the mechanic. I got proxy camped by a Wraith, he downed a guy trying to unhook me, which disabled the unhook progression and proceeded to face camp me for free whilst watching the guy bleed out.
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I feel like making the anti facecamp a anti-camping in general is a bad idea. It would be so hard to balance that.
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The Devs dont want an actual useful system. They wasted their time on a system which only works against actual facecamping, because it almost never happened anyway that the Killer just stands in front of the Hook.
And now camping is even more frustrating, because you see the Killer right there and have a bar which does nothing.
Better not bother with it, it was never intended to be helpful, so dont expect it to be useful at any point.
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If anti face camp gets turned into anti camp/tunnel ppl who want to win with such tactics go into slugging meta without hooking someone ever.
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No it works perfect so no need. What would be the point? It's very strong against facecamping.
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It doesn't even properly punish face camping. If the killer steps like 8m away, the bar won't fill up fast enough to unhook before second stage, even if no other survivor is nearby and if a staircase or drop down/hill is near the hook the killer can camp even closer because "elevation".
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It's called anti-face camping for a reason.
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*Anti Facecamping Perk Works as intended.*
Survivors: This mechanic does not handhold enough, as I can still die! It needs a buff! 🤪
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Some people are never going to be happy unless the killer goes to the farthest point of the map to hide until they get unhooked and also doesn't chase or threaten them in any way until all other survivors have been downed hooked at least once.
I know that's not what the OP is asking for, but my point is for every time we push out the borders a bit more, you're still going to have people who think it's not enough.
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AFC activation is fine. (The Survivor HUD needs to be updated to show AFC status (along with active Deliverance & Camaraderie).
Reassurance needs the buff.
In July 2023, BHVR provided this update: "Wiretap is in a similar position to Blast Mine, but we also wanted to take the opportunity to standardize how these sorts of perks work...We have also normalized the activation requirements and text descriptions between Blast Mine and Wiretap, meaning Wiretap will now activate after 50% worth of generator repairs (was 33%)."
If BHVR wants to maintain consistency by "normalizing the activation requirements" & "standardizing how these sorts of perks work," they will buff Reassurance.
Let's examine 3 similar hook-related perks.
Camaraderie- range: 16 meters
Kindred- range: 8/12/16 meters
Reassurance- range: 6 meters.
One of these sorts of perks isn't being treated the same way as the others...
Reassurance needs to be buffed to match Kindred ranges: 8/12/16 meters or to match the Camaraderie range: 16 meters.
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That addon in general needs a rework.
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Survivors don’t need even more free escapes.
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idk why but I find it a bit funny seeing everyone say this anti-face camping system sucks it only prevents face camping
why yes its also supposed to remove tunneling and camping completely and it even has a cupholder
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Survivors are not happy until the Killer can no longer kill.
All weapons need to be NERF weapons, and any Killer who attempts the 3rd hook is stunned for 15 minutes upon trying. Also, Survivors don't progress hook stages while on the hook. 😆
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no it shouldn't. its designed for face camping so ofc its not doing anything besides face camping
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Did you seriously call that a tactic? Like in strategy?
People really need to stop normalising camping and tunneling.
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I don’t know why people keep saying it’s intended to stop face camping when it can’t even do that. Tombstone Myers can completely bypass the system if he wants to lol.
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It's a legitimate, if unfun strategy.
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when you jump off he gets stunned for 7 seconds no matter if he has enduring or other perks
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Camping and Tunneling are in fact strategies. The killer's objective to kill survivors and tunneling and camping are ways to secure an early kill to tip the game into your favor.
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Tactic:
tac·tic
an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
So yes; 'tunneling' someone out to achieve the 'specific end' of killing them/winning is a tactic.
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Maybe.
It usually builds up too slowly for it to matter, in my experience.
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Afc being buffed to counter proxy camp would lead to more issues like small maps/floors, non mobile Killers struggling due to their design making them not viable for moving across the map.
Unless BHVR comes up with some basekit for non mobile killers to get across the map faster, proxy camping can't be punished.
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It's a very specific mechanic meant to address a very specific set of circumstances without completely removing a playstyle. It's always been known that this was going to be an anti-facecamping mechanic which it does address. A killer can deny you a save but they can't completely delete that from being an option to begin with unlike in the past. It forces killers to allow for hooks to be properly contested, but when unhooking another survivor you're not supposed to be in a position of strength and safety. It should be risky to make saves.
AFC provides exactly the spacing for that and nothing more or less. It's doing the job it was built to do just fine.
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It was specifically designed to stop only facecamping. The devs said they didn't want to take away proxy camping as an option.
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Same devs also said Skull Merchant was a success then reworked her three times.
On topic:
Should just pretend AFC doesn't exist. Its just a fluff addition to the game.
What should actually happen is killer powers should be disabled near hooked survivors and basement should have two entrances.
Remove BT collision and give killers blind/stun immunity near hooks so they can still force trades if they want.
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What metric are you using to even hint that survivors get free escapes? What do you think the solo q win rate is (by win rate i mean 3 out or better)? Despite what people on this board try to pretend, you are not playing against tournament swfs 99% of the time.
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despite all the cope from killer only players who can't win any games without camping and tunneling, the whole camp/tunnel tactic is lame and boring and killing the game. All my friends quit because of it and won't be back. Since I also enjoy killer I still stuck around however. Also the Anti FACE camp mechanic doesn't really prevent FACE camping either. As I already mentioned you can easily go into second stage from a face camping killer if he just does the ol' 2 step dance once or twice.
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I think it can be done, but not within the framework BHVR has picked. The 'bar builds until self-unhook' thing just won't do anything.
If you want the killer to stop camping, make the anti-camp disable upon them doing something else.
My idea was to slow the hook timer based on how many survivors are on gens, but make the effect scale exponentially. So if all other survivors are on gens, the timer barely progresses, but if the killer forces even one survivor off a gen, the pressure is back with survivors.
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For your suggestion to work, the base time required to reach second hook stage/be sacrificed would have to be reduced to make up for the slowdown when Survivor are on gens. Otherwise even when the Killer leaves the hook and chases one Survivor off the gen, the other two Survivors will be encouraged to choose "gens over friends" instead of saving their hooked teammate asap while the Killer is chasing another Survivor.
Using doing gens as a measure to slow down hook states may also backfire if the Killer uses the Grim Embrace DMS combo to push Survivors off gens. Having this hook state slowdown base kit also means the devs will have a harder time if they want to introduce more gen block perks in the future.
I think having something like a basekit Monstrous Shrine may have the potential to encourage more Killers to leave the hook and the base hook state duration could be increased at the same time as long as the devs can fix the interaction to work between floors (Game, Midwich)
Obviously this won't really impact Nurse players but punishing the rest of the Killer roster just to rein in one Killer doesn't really make sense
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"It feels like it does nothing outside of face camping. Proxi camping or even few meters away from hook is still pretty much good and this does nothing to adress it."
That was literally the entire point. As in, stated by the devs themselves. They don't care about proxying; they just hated facecamping.
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For your suggestion to work, the base time required to reach second hook stage/be sacrificed would have to be reduced to make up for the slowdown when Survivor are on gens. Otherwise even when the Killer leaves the hook and chases one Survivor off the gen, the other two Survivors will be encouraged to choose "gens over friends" instead of saving their hooked teammate asap while the Killer is chasing another Survivor.
Not at all. It'd depend on the numbers. Provisionally, I had the idea of having each survivor on a gen slow the hook timer by 5% per survivor. This way, one survivor would slow it down by 5% (Negligible), two survivors would slow it by 20% (Not enough), but three would slow it by 45% (Actual anti-camp).
Keep in mind as well that you need to compare situations where the killer does not camp. Yes, they can leave their ally on the hook if the killer doesn't camp, but they don't buy themselves enough time to make a difference, and the extra survivor is going to spend all that time incapacitated, instead of contributing to the survivors' efforts, so it doesn't benefit the survivors to leave him hanging.
Using doing gens as a measure to slow down hook states may also backfire if the Killer uses the Grim Embrace DMS combo to push Survivors off gens. Having this hook state slowdown base kit also means the devs will have a harder time if they want to introduce more gen block perks in the future.
That is a bigger issue, definitely, that'll need some kind of work-around. Though I'm not sure how long Grim Embrace will last in its current state, it seems pretty unhealthy.
I think having something like a basekit Monstrous Shrine may have the potential to encourage more Killers to leave the hook and the base hook state duration could be increased at the same time as long as the devs can fix the interaction to work between floors (Game, Midwich)
Honestly, gameplay-wise, I think basement should be deleted. It only serves to bolster tunnelling and camping, it really just hurts the game's health.
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Unfortunately it was just against FACE camping not proxy.
If you talk about it to someone who play killer I can tell you they sometimes have a different point of view of the situation. Like yesterday someone was mad at me in chat lobby, saying I was proxy camping but the reality was that I heard them running toward the hook, they were not trying to hide.
I am not saying it's always the case, there will always be troll, but yeah sometimes it's not that they want to, it's just obvious.
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The reason for that is Reassurance can be ran by full teams to extend a hook time by a potential 90s. Camaraderie can only proc 1 time per player. Kindred is an info perk, with conditions that doesn't hinder the killer in a direct way.
You can't make Reassurance 16m, because it'd be far too easy for Survivors to apply one after another from significant safety, especially with regards to basement.
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No it's just a cheap move.
Unless you face a competitive swf, tunneling unprovoked at 5 gens is nothing carefully planned. It's simply a lack of skill. That's why so many fail to get anything done in lights out. They rely too much on perks, add-ons, camping and tunneling. Due to the nature of lights out you will loose your target in the dark if youre not carefull so tunneling might not even be possible if your skill is too low. Unfortunately some players bypass that completly by facecamping + tunneling or playing legion.
A real tactic would be remembering the whereabout of survivors, planning from which side to approach, mindgaming, selecting gens to defend in synergie with your power. Determing when to leave a chase. It's about effective time management + making good choices fast.
I have not seen any tunnel killer who mastered these. You can get your 4k without perks but you have to be really good with your killer. With perks and add-ons you don't need to be a true master at the killer power but still need skill. If you just tunnel you need nothing. Especially not skill as the match collapses on it's own if the choosen survivor was not very good himself and dies within 3 gen's left. Which happnes more often lately because I noticed more killers going for the survivor with the lowest amount of hours in the game.
I play both sides equally and I think I would get extremly bored if I would switch to easy mode. Where is the challenge? Where is the exitement? If I switch a game to the easiest playmode I can't brag about having an easy game, or high skill level, thats cringe. I mean braggin itself is cringe already but you get what I mean.
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No…It’s working as intended.
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About Proxy Camp?
Save The best for Last Camp?
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What should we 'buff' the anti-FACEcamping to be? Anti-Camping?
New Anti-Camping mechanic! If the Killer exists on the same map as a hooked Survivor; That Survivor no longer progresses hook states & can unhook themselves freely!
Let's throw in a new anti-tunnel: Survivors are immune to being hit again after they leave the hook, unless the Killer hooks everyone else, or 45 minutes pass. They can freely heal, sabo hooks, bodyblock, & do gens without losing this immunity!
Hell! Let's throw in that other brain-trust's idea, too!
Survivors who are sacrificed come back as completely immune ghosts who can do gens & follow the Killer around to report on his actions via Discord! And the Killer has no way to stop them! Because apparently Survivors deserve literal-freaking-immunity if the Killer has the temerity to actually kill them!
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maybe i been getting lucky! idk. Honestly I'm starting to think the ptb version of reassurance should've stay.
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