How does it feel

Give SWF repair/heal speed penalties.

I'm being serious.

Edit: Removed unnecessary us vs. them commentary.

Therein lies the reason it's impossible to give this game balance. There's such a huge difference between a 4 person SWF team and solo survivor that any attempt at balance is going to leave one group at a disadvantage. Make killers only strong enough to compete with solo survivors and they are at a distinct disadvantage against SWF teams. Make killers strong enough to compete with SWF teams and solo survivors are are a distinct disadvantage.

The latest changes to Billy are a perfect example. As a survivor main I've played in matches against the new Billy both as SWF and solo. The SWF matches have been very competitive and lots of fun. The majority of the solo matches haven't even been a contest. Put Billy up against solo survivors and he's pretty much guaranteed a win before the match starts.

That's fair. I'm really just using Déja Vu as a stand-in for all gen speed perks, which I think would benefit from being looked over with toolboxes.

I wonder if BHVR is trying to help solo que with some of the new perks. Lucky Star and Boon: Illumination seem like they might have been made for solo que players. I still think we need basekit changes to see significant improvements.

So wouldn't it be better to separate the queues?

Solo only → Ranked mode

Solo & SWF → Casual mode

Because you aren't looking hard enough (at all). They just increased base kick damage to 5% and added an entire 'anti gen tap' mechanic in the last few weeks.

Going back farther, they've also added features like changing tile weights to prevent 'tile chaining', removing pallet spawns and creating huge dead zones or flooding the pool with unsafe pallet options, added base gen damage to kicks at all, and even gave essentially 10% action speed to nearly every killer action. They even made endurance not stack for killers and reworked the hatch spawn entirely. All base kit, all free.

And that's just 'mechanics', which doesn't even come close to covering the insane number of other things that have been nerfed at killer request in the past year or two: perks, PTB features nerfed into uselessness before going live, medkits and bnp gutted, entire map overhauls... All in large part due to 'community feedback'.

The available metrics disagree with this. Whether it's win rates or kill rates, the data points to killer already being the stronger role.

"Going back farther, they've also added features like changing tile weights to prevent 'tile chaining'

Oddly enough, I still see strong tiles chained together in my matches ALL THE TIME. Whatever changes the devs made, it did absolutely nothing.

I don't like this argument because it's super easy to flip it around and consider the current situation "Punishing players for not playing with friends".

If solo gets buffed in any way to keep up with SWF without buffing SWF, even if the buff makes win rates at the same level across all types of survivor players, you could still argue that "But we're being punished for playing with friends!" regardless of the role not being nerfed.

OPs rant is a bit over the top, but the basic premise is right, ie that "coordinated" SWFs are a real pain in the but and no fun to play against.

My solution would be a very slight nerf to regular SWFs who just play with their friends, no nerf to soloQ, but a big wrench for the death squads.Its rather simple: when in a SWF you can't equip muliple instances of the same perk. Thats it. For regular SWFs this would be more of a nusiance, but when I play with my friends we have very little overlap, as we all have different playstyles. The problem are the coordinated SWFs with 4xDH, 3xUB, 4xAdrenalin or even "Dead Dog map offering and 4x Head On". Its the coordinated specialisation that brings the most pain to my games. Against such a SWF, you can only eat all the dirt they throw your way, as switching targets often offers no respite, as they could be running the exact same build.

SoloQ players who backfill or fill up the roster should be totally exempt from this and could equip whatever they like without their personal choice interfering with any other players. I am also a big proponent of showing all participants after the trial, who was in a SWF with whom. People keep claiming that this would lead to more salty comments and even players writing down SWF names, so that they could dodge them, but that latter fear sounds pretty far-fetched to me. I believe that showing the SWFs after the trial would have a contrary effect: many killers would wake up to the fact, that a lot of their 4Ks were even against SWFs and especially that many missplays and overtly "altruism that killed the whole team" could be attributed to players being in one team together.

While we are at it, could we review the last 5 or 10 matches we played? Its such a bummer that, if I die first but want to see the killers build, I have to spectate the whole match. Would be really nice if I could just review the post-game screen at my laisure sometime later, saving 5-10 datesets per player shouldn't be THAT difficult. This would also help in that instances where I clicked the "next" button too early, and just the instance later I remember, that I wanted to look something up.

Just my two BP.

There are times when it's unwarranted, but there are times when it is. If someone is named something like "AllKillersSuck69" they probably aren't gonna have reasonable takes.

Really? Show me some proof. Any Kill Rates? Perhaps some escape rates?

As for hand-holding, they literally just fixed gen tapping. They continue to buff gen perks whilst nerfing gen speeds for Survivors. They adjusted pallet logic, continue to push out more deadzones in maps that don't need them.

It's extremely obvious that you have a pretty bad bias here. You should try to play Solo Q some time, I can't really recommend it as a fun mode, but it will be eye-opening.

Oh no I dont do this, I dont care about my opponents party play or not, I am just giving a solution for the people that do. When I say give me a reason im not specifically saying me hehe.

100% competitive SWF teams are such a minority of your matches yes. It is still a broken version of this game and I was just giving an idea out there.

Uggghhhhh.

Havent the devs stated multiple times they wont split the survivor balance into solo/swf? Dont ask for nerfs for swf, they wont happen. Nerf survivor instead lol.

As for the whole solo/swf power levels? Same character, same power level. The difference is player mindset and thirdparty comms. Chatwheel/ping tool or voicechat as buff to survivor is the only reasonable suggestion that doesnt buff swf more than solo.

But survivors dont want comms to be part of the balance compared to an bonus like it currently is....

You can't punish players for playing with their friends. I mean you can, but it will definitely damage your player base. Almost half of all survivor players play in a SWF and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't appreciate such a thing. I wouldn't either.

I suppose it's tied to the "friends just play casual all the time" - sort of mindset.

Everyone should be allowed to play anything. Swf is undeniably one of the biggest imbalances in the game, but it's a problem that can't really be solved.

TBF this pretty much says " keep doing what you are doing" while someone without coms will constantly be ready to dip out.

I agree with you.

First of all, developers and everyone must understand that in any competitive game there are two types of players

→players who prefer casual play and

→players who prefer ranked play.

And both players need to be respected.