Solo gens are too powerful
I think DBD right now is in the most balanced state it has ever been. Most maps are balanced(with some exceptions) and I don't think there is any problematic perk in the game right now.
I think the only real problem left is gen speed, especially when survs split up and do solo gens. There is almost nothing killers can do to prevent those three generators to pop in the first minutes of the game, if survivors repair efficiantly. Running corrupt or changing targets can help a little bit, but if survivors know what they're doing, it's still almost impossible to counter this strategy
So my suggestion is to also apply the same penalty, which you get right now, when two or more survivors repair one generator, to two or more different generators which are being repaired. That means if only one survivor does a gen, they repair one stack per second, if two survivors are on any gen at the same time, they repair 0.85 stacks per second and so on. Of course those numbers could be different, depending on the impact they have, but overall I think this could be a decent solution to the solo gen speed.
I'm interested what you guys think about this so please tell me your opinion on this
Comments
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Nah, that's not good idea.
We don't need more slowdown on B to S tier killers. They are doing just fine.
And also, how this is only problem right now? Tunnelling is pretty much so strong and this is not problem for you? Or Nurse, who breaks all game rules is not problem?
Alright, let's ignore all of this and let me ask this question: The nature of DbD is that, survivors are strong early game and weak at end game. Killers are opposite, they are weak at early game and strong late game.
That's because no survivor is on hook, in chase and all of them are on gens freely. But killer is hooking them, some pallets are removing from game, resources used and now killer is stronger.
So how survivors will able to win in this scenario? They will give hook states which means some of them will be dead hook. They lost early game pressure which means less gens finished. Also resources used, that means chases are faster now for killer. So they are no longer strong at early game but still weak at late game.
How this is sounds fair and balanced to you? Really curious.
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Lol. I can never tell if posts like these are satire or not.
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In my experience, matches where the killer gets a hook before one or two gens are completed usually go very badly for survivors. When the killer's pressure begins, it's very difficult for survivors to reverse that momentum. Things naturally get much harder for survivors when there are less gens to complete and resources have been depleted. Killers always have the opportunity to begin a snowball, even if a couple of gens pop before they get a hook.
Maybe this is just a part of playing in solo queue, but we are the majority of the playerbase, so we should be considered when balancing the game.
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They've already upped the solo generator time by 10 seconds somewhat recently. Nobody wants to sit on a gen for 100+ seconds.
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they definitely serious.
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First of all, I don't think tunneling is a problem. This may be an unpopular opinion but the base kit bt plus movement speed bonus is enough to hurt a tunneling killer, if the others do gens(and I'm not talking about nurse, she's a special case) Of course the one getting tunneled is propably gonna die, but the killer is still gonna lose the game if they tunnel.
And yes it's true that the killers pressure increase over time with more generators being repaired, however if survivors do gens really efficiently(that means no chest opening, no unnecessary cleansing of dull totems) in theory three gens could pop within 90 seconds. That means the killer has maybe one, if they play well three hooks, compared to three gens being repaired at the same time. No amount of pressure from the killer side can make this game winable for the them (and yes I'm not including comp nurse players destroying solo queue when talking about this) Also three gening, the most popular late game strategy has been nerfed(which I fully support) So no, I still think those first three gens massivly hurt the killer if survivors play well
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You did not answer my question.
So i will just copy paste for you.
"Alright, let's ignore all of this and let me ask this question: The nature of DbD is that, survivors are strong early game and weak at end game. Killers are opposite, they are weak at early game and strong late game.
That's because no survivor is on hook, in chase and all of them are on gens freely. But killer is hooking them, some pallets are removing from game, resources used and now killer is stronger.
So how survivors will able to win in this scenario? They will give hook states which means some of them will be dead hook. They lost early game pressure which means less gens finished. Also resources used, that means chases are faster now for killer. So they are no longer strong at early game but still weak at late game.
How this is sounds fair and balanced to you? Really curious."
You are asking nerf for early game of survivors without nerfing late game of killers. How that's sounds fair for you? And if you are believing tunnelling is fair, i have no words for you anyway.
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Thats true, but the devs already stated they don't wanna implement an early game mechanic, so I don't know what else could be done
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There's definitely better solutions out there rather than increasing generator time again, not saying I know exactly what they are, but there's 100% been suggestions on the forums that would be good solutions to these problems.
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Ok let's imagine a situation, which could occure right now in the game, and you tell me wether this is problematic or not. The killer has two hooks and three gens are already repaired. It only took the survivors 90 seconds to repair those three gens. In those 90!! seconds, it is impossible that the killer got rid of enough pallets to be strong or op in the late game, unless the chased survivor played bad, dropped every pallet and didn't utilise the loops potential.
Now if survivors keep splitting up after the first three gens got repaired, they still keep a lot of pressure in the late game as well. If you ever played killer, you know what I mean. Four gens are left, two gens or more are being repaired, and as soon as u leave a gen as killer to protect the other, survivors shift w away from that gen, making the chase not viable for the killer, and the gen the killer just left, continues being repaired. Now the killer has the option to commit a chase and propably lose the game, or try to hold a three gen which is extremly boring for both sides. Does this sound fun or fair? I don't think so.
And I didn't say my idea is the only solution, it was just an idea to solve this problem of the first three gens being repaired to quickly
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I think you are underestimating how effective tunneling is. Most survivors can't run the killer for more than 30 seconds without going down. The number of survivors that can keep a tunneling killer busy long enough to make it a losing strategy for the killer is very low.
Despite what the devs assert, survivors overall are very altruistic, even in solo queue. When tunneling occurs in solo queue, the lack of coordination combined with altruistic behaviour throws the match into absolute chaos. The only time survivors stick to gens is when one is almost completed or there is only one left. That's assuming that survivors can even find the gens in an efficient manner.
It's much easier for the killer to play optimally, as they do not have to rely on anyone other than themselves. The nature of playing survivor depends on your teammates, which opens up a lot of possibilities for things to go wrong. Outside of high level SWF teams, things go wrong for survivors all the time.
Your proposed changes don't target high level SWF survivors, it targets everyone. Non-competitive and solo queue players don't need more nerfs.
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Yeah I definitly see your point. Personally I'm not a fan of balancing a game around weak players, but the lack of coordination in solo queue is definitly a problem. That's where I think some form of matchmaking would help, so experienced players get matched with other experienced players (I have 3k hours, which compared to others is not that much, but I dont wanna get matched with people who have 1k hours or less, not because I wanna shame them, they just lack experience)
However matchmaking would result in good players only seeing blight and nurse, and weak killers constantly being stomped on, which is also boring, so I don't know how to solve this problem.
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But they also added a load more gen rushing perks since then as well as bnp being able to permanently reduce the amount of time needed to repair the gen. If you stack them, you can permanently reduce the amount needed to repair a gen by 40 seconds. They also recently added gens being completely unregressable after a certain point even on matches that don't have a 3 gen situation.
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Unfortunately the time requirements for being a competent player in this game is absurd. Nobody should have to commit hundreds, let alone thousands of hours to a game to be competent. Unfortunately that's just how this game turned out, meaning that the majority of the playerbase is not competent enough to be described as "good".
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So should competent players should suffer because certain players don’t care to learn?
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Don't care to learn? Most players don't have thousands of hours to devote to one game. It's great that you have that much free time to spare but that's an unrealistic expectation of most players. Maybe the game should do a better job of teaching players instead of expecting them to grind their face against the wall for an absurdly long time.
Saying that certain players (the majority of players) "don't care to learn" is disingenuous.
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I have a career and was able to do it. I agree that the game should do a much better job with tutorials, but it still shouldn’t be balanced around clueless players. If you’re going to be casual, you should expect to lose more than people who put in the time. This used to be common sense, but this entitled playerbase has shifted the standard.
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Balancing the game around everyone except the majority of players is a bad idea. There are plenty of changes that could be made that would impact higher skilled players without kicking in the teeth of everyone else, but BHVR is only capable of doing blanket nerfs which barely impact those needing a nerf and screw over everybody else in the process.
If the game is only playable for survivors with absurdly high levels of experience then the game begins to die. Then there's no game for anyone.
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So basically, experienced players don’t matter.
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I think they should inverse the penalty. You shouldn't get a penalty for working together, you should get a penalty for NOT working together on gens. That way killers can apply pressure to multiple survivors at once. Tweak the numbers how you want, but basically you should WANT to group up. This would also actually help newer players out quite a bit because instinctively when you first start playing you think grouping up is what you should do when actually it is the opposite.
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No, BHVR just doesn't have much finesse when it comes to balance changes. Instead of nerfing extremely strong loops like main buildings, they nerf things like basic loops because it's easier to do.
You should be pushing BHVR to make changes that really target the strongest survivor players instead of things that will disproportionately impact weaker players.
Alot of these things would be easier to do if solo queue wasn't so weak by nature, the game's matchmaking system actually worked, the game gave players better tools to learn and become optimal, and the game could recognise which survivors actually play well in the match, instead of just saying "you died so you suck".
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My brother in Christ, you literally made a thread yesterday about how killers in the worst state ever because you played one (one!) match with Xeno and lost, then continued to make false claims about Xenos power.
Did you care to learn how to actually play Xeno or did you do exactly what you’ve been complaining about for days now?
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Good students dont complain about math and think its easy, only the bad one.
Competent players would learn and not complaining. You complain too much to be a competent one. Competent killers out there making hundreds win streak with low tier killers.
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The killer has two hooks and three gens are already repaired. It only took the survivors 90 seconds to repair those three gens. In those 90!! seconds, it is impossible that the killer got rid of enough pallets to be strong or op in the late game, unless the chased survivor played bad, dropped every pallet and didn't utilise the loops potential.If you have two hooks in 90 seconds even if 3 gens get done you are doing fine. You aren't winning, but you are in an okay position.
That's generally a good game. Games were the killer establishes a dominant position extremely early are really boring.
So if you are trying to make posts for ways to improve the game while also avoiding things BHVR won't do, then this is a non-starter of an issue. BHVR doesn't think the early game importance is a problem, you aren't going to loophole a solution in via a more complicated method that they haven't explicitly said is off the table.
Post edited by crogers271 on1 -
I've been of the opinion for a while that there's something to be gained from re-examining Solo gens vs. Teamed gens. It doesn't make much sense to me that the safest way to do gens is also the most efficient.
Increasing base gen times but inverting the co-op penalty would give survivors a more meaningful, tactical choice between clumping together while risking greater disruption, or splitting up while taking longer.
Additionally, each individual down would reward the killer more, since the survivor removed would also reduce co-op opportunities, and thus more strongly impact gen speeds.
But therein also lies the reason this can't be implemented at the moment: it'd be a colossal buff to tunnelling and camping. Until those are dealt with, solo gens -must- be stronger.
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The opinion that we should talk about balance based on survivors who can only chase for 30 seconds will be very shocking to Asian players. These people are probably beginner players, but does that mean they make up the largest percentage of the population?
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I've always said that there needs to be more generators with shorter individual repair times or bonuses for repairing gens together instead of spreading out, but everyone disagrees with me.
Doing gens together slows the game down but reduces individual gen time. In my eyes, everyone wins in this scenario. But both the community and the devs apparently agree that spreading out to do gens is the better way to proceed, as it's obvious with the nerf to Prove Thyself.
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I play killer and survivor. Our objective is to do gens. We got nerfed into the ground with healing and other perks. I've had games with a 4 SWF and we got zero gens done because the killer is efficient and knows how to prioritize. As killer I always run Discorance. This prevents double gen progression. If you don't like the gen progress, use perks to stop it. Use killers that can get from gen to gen faster. Like Spirit. Honestly, stop trying to nerf survivors anymore than we already are.
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I agree with your assessment the most in this discussion.
There's a weird feedback loop of 'I need to tunnel out a player because of gen speeds' and 'Do gens quickly, the killer is camping/tunneling' and it's become a very big weapon for one-sided arguments when really, I see both of them as symptoms of a bigger balance issue.
Camping is kind of fixed, with proxy-camping more of a coin toss issue (patrolling near a hook being okay, but someone like Slinger ready to harpoon and down the unhooked player being the worst case, for example) but if tunneling were somehow fixed then I could justify further adjustments to generator speeds, toolboxes and such.
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you realise up until the first hook, gens are the survivors only objective, are you expecting them to run around aimlessly just to make the game easier for you?
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