General Discussions
General Discussions
Killer is in the worst state it has ever been
Comments
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Those are all things that help prevent hook camping and tunneling off hook. If it's fun you care about, being camped or tunneled off the hook is not fun at all for survivors. In fact, it's absolutely miserable.
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There's plenty. Devour Hope a prime example that doesn't do either, Bamboozle another, STBFL was another. And guess what? We deviate and win. Sure not all the time because there are people better than us but we can win most. Just because some people are better than you doesn't mean all of the killer's side is at an all time low.
Dont see how what we said untrue. BNP don't instantly finish gens anymore, no add ons for medkits to bring someone from down to healthy instantly, infinites are gone, where are we incorrect? Your opinion on the matters may be different but these are facts that can't be disproven.
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Then you're a fool for trading all the progress we've made for nostalgia.
Nurse is still the strongest entity in the game by a mile. Blight isn't too far behind her, as demonstrated by the 2000 game Blight streak. Spirit, Xeno, Wesker, Chucky, Artist, Plague etc etc are all extremely strong Killers.
There's no more 5-blink or OmegaBlink Nurse, nor Prayer Bead Spirit and if that's what you're missing, frankly, too damn bad.
The changes listed dropped Escape Rates to under 40%. Sorry that you're rusty, but your assertions that Survivors are somehow more OP now is wrong. Redonsider your point of view.
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Again, you can’t tell me my experience is wrong. It’s literally my opinion lol. I know how playing killer felt back then, and I know how it feels now. It’s a bad experience. Survivors have always been too strong, but it’s more obvious now that strong regression no longer exists.
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I don't think anyone is saying that your experience is wrong. Simply that you are making statements about the objective balance of the game based on your own experiences. Your opinion could be correct, but there's no way to establish that based soley on what you encounter and how your matches go.
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We're beginning to think you heavily relied on regression...
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Nah now I just slug, camp and tunnel to win with Nurse. It’s boring. I could go for a more chase-oriented gameplan back then. Now, even with 15-20 second chases, gens fly.
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Also, unless you’re referencing stats i don’t know about, the 40% thing is disingenuous. 60% killrates were possible because of the eruptuon/overcharge meta, not because of the worthless .1% changes made to killer basekit.
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They were not. You are just objectively wrong.
Killers felt stronger because there was no MMR, so you were going against teams who was much easier than your skills. Now MMR is giving you closer skilled survivors which means games are feeling harder.
But again, killers were not stronger. Old survivor meta was so busted. Now, strongest survivor perk is probably Spirint Burst which is not even close to old DH.
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what amount of gens do you expect to be at when you win? You sound like your expecting to win at 5 gens every game.
I would say killer is an ok spot if they use meta perks. one of the main issues with killer at the moment is low perk variety. there is not exactly a lot of perk combinations for killer that lead to good results. I am not saying that survivor perks are all perfect and what not but there is more perk variety on survivor end than there is on killer end. that is my take on killer playing killer in 2024.
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I referenced the gen number because, in my opinion, if I am dominating them in chase, then the game shouldn’t be close. This is also assuming I play perfectly, as killer doesn’t have the ridiculous number of second chances that survivors have.
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Your opinion can be one thing.
The facts are another.
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We see. At this point your trolling everyone. Fair enough, had us for a good while there.
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I disagree with OP.
Maybe 4 months ago (back when MFT was still a perk) I'd understand more, but I'm pretty happy with the state of the game these days. Minus like FTP BU and map offerings (but those aren't just an issue for killers to deal with), playing killer's never been better IMO.
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If you’re doing all this with Nurse than I’m sorry but in the nicest way possible, get better. You’re playing pub matches, not competitive sweat lobbies.
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Sorry that you can't get a 4k 100% of the games now and, in order to do that now, you have to slug, facecamp and tunnel every game. Sucks that you have to ruin 4 people's experience just to get those sweet sweet kills...
Anyway... the sooner people like you leave the game and they add bot killers the better. Not even going to suggest fighting tunneling since clearly they don't give a damn about that.
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I agree with that but what you said before sounded a lot like you made some mistakes. Reflect on your own games for a bit. Do you really play flawless? Or are you, like the rest of us, just a normal player, who will make some mistakes? It's easy to say one is high MMR and plays as good as tournament winners, but in most cases this is simply wrong.
The chances that you are such a player are rather low, which isn't something to be ashamed of. It's just the truth. Not everyone can be a tournament winning basement dweller.
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Nah I’m a former competitive player. I am also a DBD veteran so I know the game well. Obviously I make mistakes, and I can live with losing because I got outplayed. What I can’t accept is essentially never having a shot because of bad design. So many matches as Deathslinger, I simply never have a chance to make a shot. I hit the majority of shots I take, but most survivors at my MMR prerun/use structures that I can’t shoot over. I essentially don’t get to play the game. These scenarios are far too common at high MMR, and it seems like the devs could not care any less.
It’s also incredibly frustrating to see survivors insult killers, dictate balance to the devs, and spam “skill issue” when survivor gameplay is significantly lower skill than the killer role.
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Thats comedy, right? RIGHT?
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Pretty sure OP has stated before he’s a comp (or was?) DBD player. I asked for proof but he never provided anything. Just FYI.
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I was a professional fighting game player. Placed at the EVO world championships twice. Look up my tag if you don’t believe me. The idea that a game should be balanced around mediocre players was laughable back when I was competing.
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Is this a joke? I really can't tell. The devs of this game have spent years making this game as killer-centric as possible. To the point I am starting to think it is a social experiment to see how much a survivor will take before they leave. Killer's kill ratios have never been higher. All the maps have been reduced to the size of a postage stamp, most pallets are unsafe, most vaults have an open gaping door right next to them so the killer might have to wait for you to land to hit you on the other side, every survivor benefit has been nerfed (Toolboxes, med kits, keys, perks, etc.), gen completion times are longer, and crossplay can not be turned off so you are forced to play with people you can not even communicate with.
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The devs of this game have spent years making this game as killer-centric as possible. To the point I am starting to think it is a social experiment to see how much a survivor will take before they leave.
Hmm..
- Basekit BT if a Killer 'tunnels'. Which Survivors abuse to bodyblock, then complain when they get downed. (Free perk #1)
- Basekit Deliverance if a Killer 'camps'. (Free perk #2)
- Every Killer that does decently well being nerfed into oblivion, without fail.
- When the devs changed how Wriggling works; They threw in a bonus for Survivors to make Wriggling more effective. Yes; A QoL update came with a Survivor buff added in, because Survivors must be catered too in every update.
- Limiting '3 gen' ability by utterly gutting kicking. You know; 3 Genning; That thing Survivors inflict on themselves with poor planning, but the devs have punished Killers for!
But oh no! The devs removed single-frame gen-tapping! THE GAME IS SOOOO KILLER-SIDED!
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Killer's aren't in the worst state... that's just an oversight
Compare this to what Killer's had to deal with last year or the year before
We have 30+ Killers that each have their own playstyle
And new survivors skins with new Perks... with the same playstyle (do Gens and leave)
On one hand it's up to the Devs to be ahead of everything but on the other hand we as players need to stop comparing Killers to themselves and Survivors
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These are a little skewed.
1: The basekit BT is for if a killer tunnels. The thing everyone leaves out of the bodyblocking examples is that it doesn't last long enough for you to not be able to just down that survivor. Who cares if they complain? They're in the wrong.
2: Why did you put the word "camp" in quotes? That system is very strict, it does only kick in if you're camping.
3: Which killers are you referring to? Genuine question, I can't think of any killer even semi-recently that's been "nerfed into oblivion", regardless of how well they performed beforehand. The top three killers haven't changed in years, so I don't know what this could be referring to.
4: To be fair, that was a test, and it was eventually changed. I believe the great skillcheck sway that replaced it is slightly more than before, but that's a pretty mild 'buff', so it's whatever.
5: They limited 3-gen capability and, separately, buffed kicks. Also, the 3-genning that this was targeted at was very much not the survivor's fault.
Not to say I agree with the person you're quoting, mind you, but this list doesn't really hold water independent of that. It also doesn't acknowledge any of the things that have improved for killer over the past year and a half or so.
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To be honest, the balance itself is much better than in the past. Actually, the past was pretty bad. However, back then, many people lacked knowledge and could not play to their best potential.
Nowadays, the opposite is true, and since the theory has become popular and everyone can learn and put it into practice, many M1 killers are forced to work in a difficult situation. On the other hand, as new players enter the game who either don't learn these theories or ignore them and get away with it, the skills of survivors have become increasingly polarized.
This is one of the most serious problems, as killers with some knowledge are often paired with survivors who have learned nothing, and base kits have been abused in an attempt to create a balance between them.
As a result, when people with the same skill gather in one place, the killer side is now at a considerable disadvantage.
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Only killers? Damn i see a lot of survivors complaining about stuff, that has been added since 6.1.0 to help them.
Can we leave it that people don´t appreciate good stuff and always will complain, no matter the role they play?
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I disagree that Dead Hard is dead perk and ds is a weak perk... but I will not explain why - not worth it
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You are objectively, numerically, mathematically and historically wrong, but if we can both agree to revert the game pre 6.1.0 I'm going to side with you.
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I didnt tell that only apply to killers.
But for the matter of fact, 6.1.0 was to aim for killer to gain from ~53% (?) to 60% kill rate, the patch means buff killers for one to say "Survivors are strong than before"
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Hard disagree. This is one of the best states killer has ever been in. Maybe even the most balanced the game has been overall for both sides.
Yes there is still a lot that needs to be addressed, but there’s no way the current game is anywhere near as bad as the days of Dead Hard and vacuum pallets.
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What is the relevance of being a comp player in something other than DbD?
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Well it certainly looked like that. Anyway, survivors got a lot of QoL buffs since then.
Maybe people would be happier, if the game version was turned back to somewhere around 2016. With infinites and all that stuff. Just for a week. After all, we now get event game modes, that are kinda different. So kinda a "look where we came from, isn´t this much better than before?!"
Would probably help some people reflect on how the game balance currently is, vs how it used to be.
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Infinites before breakable walls, old sprint burst, insta heals, original bnp, old keys with hatch, no EGC so survivors can stay in and farm the killer for points or bully, survivors purposefully deranking back to brown to bully new killers. Also I can’t remember really but sabo did it permanently delete the hook or was it just down much longer?
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If you are not gonna explain, please don't bother me with notification. Thank you.
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It all depends on when you are.
I strongly believe DBD was a vastly superior game in the past, but all the things you mentioned got changed at different points in time.
Going "back to pre-6.1.0" is vague. There is plenty of room for a perfect version to be found.
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Yeah it’s very vague.
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There was a perma-sabo meta at one point, from what I've heard. Survivors would just go around the match disabling all hooks and the killer literally couldn't win except by bleeding people out. IIRC, it's either why the basement hooks are indestructible, or why the basement exists altogether.
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I wholeheartedly agree. As a killer main, I always wish I could go back to 2016/2017 where we had legit insta heals/insta gens/infinites/etc. How I miss those good old times. Killer was so much more enjoyable back then.
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Basement was around before the sabo meta, but yeah survivors were heavily abusing the sabo meta which is why hooks respawn so quickly now. It’s what heavily kicked off the slugging gameplay, killers were super tired of 4 kitted out survivor sabo survivors destroying almost all hooks on the map.
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More like the easiest time to play killer ever because everything is pretty much handed to them.
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Those numbers are official stats taken from last month.
Did eruption make a come back last month that none of us knew about?
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I know how game balance works. You can’t balance around clueless players.
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Those stats literally just came out. He was referencing stats from around the time of 6.1. Anyways, the current stats don’t mean much. The ceiling for high mmr is fairly low. I would bet most of the people on this forum are in it.
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What a surprise, the stats are unusable because they show something that you don't like.
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They aren’t unusable, and they go with what I’ve been saying. Kill rates are inflated because the playerbase doesn’t know how to maximize game mechanics. What doesn’t matter in the hands of an average player can be broken in the hands of an experienced player (old dead hard, DS.) That’s why you balance around people who maximize/exploit game mechanics. Conveniently, BHVR only balances killer thet way, which is why Nurse has been nerfed 50 times, and countless other killers have been needlessly nerfed. If they balanced both sides around casual or competitive play, I wouldn’t have a problem.
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No killer really is not in the worst state ever.
Yes some of the more threatening elements of playing killer have been toned down which overall makes the game a lil less exciting to play. (I miss old moris for instance).
But killer is stronger then they've probably ever been. There is a distinct skew in game outcome that favors killer overall (this is a good thing).
"Killers were stronger back in 2018. Like yea, the weakest killers were all weaker than they are now, but there was actual power killers like Nurse and Spirit. Now every killer feels gimped, is loaded with cooldowns, and has mostly worthless addons. Modern dbd brought killers closer together, but weaker as a whole." Now this is almost a good point. Its not the overall strength of killers that has been lost but moreso the variation in game play.
The game seems to be gravitating toward a generally fixed style of play. So in an effort to "standardize" the game experience we lose some of the unique elements of some killers. It was those elements that made some killers more interesting to play. The guessing game surrounding old spirit for example, basement trapper or Bubba again.
So if your gripe is that we are moving toward a more consistent and hence bland standard of gameplay I'm all ears, but if you package that as "killers are too weak" then I'm afraid your off the mark.
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I don’t think the game is headed toward balance though. It’s continually shifting towards survivors. Part of the problem is that base mechanics and maps, not perks, makes survivors too strong, and BHVR has done very little to help. The basic math of tile density, pallets, and time wasted after the killer gets a hit encourages killer to play defensively rather than for chases (the fun part of the game.)
The point I’m making is that in the first few years I was playing, there were ways to slow the game down enough to go for more chases rather than picking an area of the map to defend. Now even with perfect chases, you don’t have enough time to try to win the game. It’s boring.
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So to clarify, the killer shouldn’t have a chance at a 4k, even if they are as good as the survivors?
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That's not the case I'm afraid - the high mmr bracket is one of the smallest percentage groups. Majority of players are in the average MMR bracket.
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