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Killer is in the worst state it has ever been
I’ve been playing this game since 2018 and have close to 5000 hours total. I recently returned after break, and man has the fun been sucked out.
It doesn’t matter if your chases are short. Unless you pick a section of the map to defend right at the beginning, you are going to lose if they decide to do the gens. Then there’s the killers. I tried xeno for the first time and it was an awful experience. A large chunk of its power is controlled by survivors and the tail requires pinpoint precision, meanwhile survivors get to plop down a turret whenever they feel like it. On top of that, a huge amount of loops don’t even let you use the power because they are too high.
This game’s problem is the same that it has always been: survivors have too many resources and second chances, on top of chained tiles and safe pallets. I legitimately don’t understand how anyone says that killer is easy. It was significantly easier when I started playing because even though survivors had major dirt, killer stuff could at least come close to matching it. Now every killer has been neutered to oblivion in the name of survivor fun.
This game needs to be balanced as a 1v4. Individual survivors hold far too much power for most killers to handle. It feels damn near impossible to win with certain killers and rng spawns.
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Pretty hot take imo. Xeno is ridiculously strong, although yes it is very punishing to miss the tail and turrets can be annoying.
But once you have played him a bit and know when to pre-wind the tail up to hit people at loops it's so disgusting and feels downright unfair at times, and then combined with high mobility turrets really do need to exist to keep Xeno in check.
Then for all the survivor sided stuff, it's really not. Maybe if you are in a 3-4 man SWF with meta perks but for your average game it's usually overwhelming killer sided and only takes 1 potato to cascade the entire team into failure
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So you play a Killer for the first time, play badly with it (which is to be expected) and the conclusion is that Killer is in the worst state it has ever been?
Did you ever have the thought that you might not be perform that good in your first game with a Killer?
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We've been here since 2017 and while we individually dont have more than 5k hours we'd like to say no.
- We like that self heals aren't super quick
- We like infinite loops are gone
- we like no more instant up medkits
- We like no instant repair BNP
- We like the variety of killers and perks to chew up survivors
- We like the small things like quicker wiping animations and kick regression and now lack of gen tapping
- We like gens take longer (yes longer)
That bullet list above is things that make playing killer alot better than before so saying its in it's worst state seems false.
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Hardly disagree.
DS is not busted anymore. Dead Hard is dead perk. UB is not meta. Healing got big nerf. Most of maps got nerfs and ended with big dead zones. Iron Will nuked, so it's easier to track survivors as well.
Gen tapping removed and killer gen-kick buffed. We are getting pretty strong killers. Killers still have good anti-gen meta which helps to slowdown the game.
It's actually the best state of game for killers right now.
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You wont be happy until you win all your games with ease at this point
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maybe nostalgia? most of the m1 killers are still bad but... do you remember about old maps having 10 pallets in each loop? old items and addons? old perks? old recovering/pallet breaking/stunning animations?
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Hard disagree, from what I've seen the original killer was much harder from what the above has said. I think the only killer meta better than this was gen-kick meta, and that was just autopilot for killer's.
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Dude come on, this is objectively untrue and you know it.
You’re for real going to sit here and say that it was easier for killer when actual infinites existed, god pallets everywhere, windows everywhere, chainable tiles, exhaustion perks that came back mid-chase, every survivor could DS you twice per game, heals could be done in 4 seconds by yourself, few killers with anti-loop powers or mobility powers, etc. I could literally go on for a page about what has improved for killer.
Killer is objectively in one of its easier states it’s ever been.
Also, Xenos tail is not that hard to hit, even on console, it’s no different than Nemesis’ whip, in fact it’s even easier to hit and it genuinely can feel oppressive. Deathslinger and Trickster are the only genuinely hard killers to aim with on console.
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Also weren’t you commenting on a thread yesterday about how people that play this game are lazy and entitled and just come onto the forums to complain to nerf things before they even try to learn them?
Because you’re literally doing exactly that. You’re being a huge hypocrite.
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Definitely not worst, not from the horror stories I've read.
It's much more balanced on both sides, with some perk combination exceptions and map design.
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Killers are in a pretty good spot right now. Sure, some are a bit weaker than they should be but most are good. More than good, honestly. If you play a killer for the first time and it goes badly that is not balancing issue. With 5k hours you should know that. Xenomorph is a very strong killer but also pretty hard because the tail attack is a bit confusing and you need to play around turrets. But if you can do that then Xeno becomes a pretty scarry beast.
It sounds to me like you are playing against survivors that simply you by now because your MMR is a tad higher than it should be. Playing killer has never been easy (DBD is a pretty hard game after all) but it has become a lot more fair and even forgiving. You can afford to make some mistakes as long as the survivors make some as well. If they play flawlessly however, then it's only natural that you'll have a pretty hard time.
It's true that most maps have more resources than necessary against the average M1 killer but there are also killers in this game that aren't Freddy, Trapper or Myers and can't be delayed that easy. So it's fair against some killers and unfair against others. For the most part it is somewhat alright though. In most games you don't need to play then entire map. You don't win by defending all gens. You only need to have 3 left to win and the survivors don't dictate which ones these will be (at least not entirely). If there is a gen in a far corner, then screw that. You don't need to go there. Nobody is forcing you.
The only thing that is unfortunate is how fast paced the game has become. For both sides. As a killer, a single long chase can lose you the game, so you often need to let that survivor go and find someone else and in many cases it feels like you absolutely can't keep up with the gen speed, which can make you lose your cool and make more mistakes than you usually would. Many compensate for this by tunneling (even when it's not necessary), which only makes them win games they shouldn't, raises their MMR and then puts them against even stronger opponents. So the problem only gets worse.
It's actually the best state of game for killers right now.
Agreed. Although I would like to clarify that this is not the strongest but the healthiest spot the killer role has been in so far. 6.1.0 regression was so nutty, that I'd consider this the strongest killers have ever been.
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Hello, my fellow 2018 player.
I gotta say I disagree with this one. There isn't anything particularly frustrating right now for killers in general, and survivors had plenty of their resources straight up removed from the game.
Is this the best it has ever been for killers? No, definitely not. But it might be the easiest, gen-kicking meta aside.
Something being made easier obviously doesn't mean it is better, but objectively speaking there isn't much being put against killers right now.
Probably not. Nostalgia rarely plays a role here, because old things are constantly being brought up.
It is impossible to have a "rose tinted" view about something when that something is dissected and discussed all the time. Every Forum member is constantly exposed to the advantages and disadvantages of things that got removed from the game, and it is up to them to decide whether or not they would like that thing to return.
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Read it again. More often than not, I didn’t even have the chance to use the tail because the loop is too high. Your last paragraph isn’t a valid talking point. Being able to win the match shouldn’t be contingent on “do they have a potato?” Having to rely on there being a weak link for the killer to win is bad game design.
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I’ll say what I said again: killer shouldn’t just be screwed if the survivors don’t make mistakes.
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I've been playing since may 2021 and i think killer has only been getting better since then.
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If anything, killer is in the healthiest spot it's ever been. Not the strongest, that was Eruption meta, but the healthiest for sure.
There's the least amount of truly heinous maps, there's the least amount of overpowered perks/items, there's the most variety in viable perks, there's the most variety in viable killers... Your skill expression's effect on a match is at an all time high if you know what you're doing, barring a few edge cases like an all-out genrushing squad.
I mean, what's even gotten worse recently? Specific perk combinations, a handful of questionable nerfs here and there, and that's basically it. Certainly not close to enough to outweigh all the good that's come to the game for killers.
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Killer has seen plenty of improvements that for the most part they are in a better spot than before, but I think the actual issue is getting overlooked.
There's a lot of pressure on killers to have to play absolutely perfectly or they just fall behind and killers don't have access to really any catchup tools to help. The best in situations where you make a mistake early and are now down to 3 gens left is to either hope it's a strong 3-gen you can defend or hope you can secure 1 kill in EGC.
Against soloq survivors this may not come up as matchmaking with solos is often very mixed.
Doesn't help that survivors have been seeing many basekit features being added to them over the years meanwhile killers are just now getting FoV slider.
Killer is easier, but it's also way more frustrating.
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Exactly. Killer has to play absolutely perfect, but survivors are gifted 3rd, 4th, and 5th chances because of perks and basekit buffs. It should be the other way around to the side with fewer players.
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The issues I’m talking about have been around since I started playing. There is no learning or adapting to connected, safe tiles, second chance perks, and generally bad map design. DBD has core issues that, rather than being addressed, have been made worse. If you are the best chaser in the world, it will still take too long to down survivors before gens get done since they get a speed boost and have a thick concentration of pallets and tiles.
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You can use the tail at every loop in the game. Maybe you can't use it all points of that loop, but if there is a window or a pallet that's always enough of a clearance for you to hit people at. A lot of the dirtiest hits I get are winding the tail just as I am coming around the corner to a pallet, hitting the tiniest of survivor pixels as they continue to greed the loop. Because of the oval shaped survivor hitboxes you can still get huntress-esque hits with the tail, damaging survivors who are essentially entirely out of your view around a corner. It will take a fair amount of practice until you start getting those hits reliably though.
If there is an entire lobby of evenly matched players and the killer is on a balanced character it's supposed to end in a 2k. If you are getting 3ks or above the MMR is supposed to rise until you are getting 2ks again. A lot of people seem to forget that part. A player is only a "weak link" relative to the killers skill level. So if there are no "weak links" (to you) and you are getting 2k's that means the game is working perfectly as intended
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Dont seem to have any problems on my side.
Im guessing most of this feeling is over-representation of competitive SWF matches that killer players hardly encounter but do struggle/lose against. You gotta remember that you win nearly every single other match. Its very rare that you are gonna get dunked on by SoloQ.
Not even the people who play this as a career run into comp teams often. So us normies definitely dont. Maybe youll have a bad round here or there and maybe youll get a map that isnt so favorable.
More often than not though, you just stomp as a killer in this game.
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I'm always terrible the first time I try a new killer. It doesn't take long to catch on though. I wouldn't expect anyone to perform great the first time they try something.
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Xeno has the same problem as slinger: you slow down when pressing m2, so the survivor rounds the corner by the time the attack comes out. You have to be pretty much on top of them to even have a chance.
I played some Nurse after getting frustrated with Xeno and did well, but saw the same issues. I was getting insanely fast downs, but gens were still knocked out. The game should’t be trying to force an outcome. If the game is trying to force a result, what reason do I have to play? It shouldn’t be coming down to 1 or 0 gens left if I am outplaying them.
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The issues you’re talking about are not even in the same stratosphere as they used to be. And your points about Xeno are exactly what you condemned about “lazy and entitled”.
Yes, survivors have counterplay to bringing her out of her crawl stance, but, there is counterplay if you literally just read her power description.
Xenos tail requiring pinpoint precision? Simply untrue, the only ranged power in the game that requires pinpoint precision is Deathslinger and maybe Trickster. Her tail hitbox is actually massive compared to the visual model, you would know this if you actually tried to use her for more than one game before coming on the forums and complaining.
Sound familiar?
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Are you refering to walls when you say it's too high? Xeno's tail is still good for hitting ppl at pallets and windows. His chase is very similar to Nemi's in that regard.
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Deathslinger is much easier to hit with. He is my second main. I was getting survivor teams that would set up multiple turrets around the gens that were close together, and xeno can only hit one at a time. Not to mention turrets at loops, which I am forced to break mid chase, giving the survivors time to make the next safe tile. A killer power should never be in the survivors’ hands like that.
And no, none of the issues I originally mentioned have been addressed in a meaningful way. The killer wiping the weapon 2% percent faster isn’t at all impactful because the pallets are too densely put together.
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Alright you’ve completely lost me. Xenos tail hitbox is objectively bigger than Deathslingers spear, there’s just no arguing that no matter how much you try.
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I have a hard time believing that a killer with that experience level is struggling in pubs. Xenomorph notwithstanding, we're talking about maybe 30% of the killer roster where chained safe tiles are consistently problematic. I know everyone is suddenly a Burger King Myers main when the topic comes up, but what killers are genuinely struggling with maps and tile safety across the board from S to B- tier?
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That was the case back then, even more so.
In fact it isn't even close to then and today
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We need to go back to pre 6.1.0 for half a year so killers may appreciate what they have now.
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Before I name any killers, I’ll just say that your guestimate of 30% of the roster struggling with tiles is an indictment of this game’s balance. There’s no way the devs can look at that fact and think it’s ok.
Off the top of my head: trapper, legion, huntress (on most maps), deathslinger, trickster, Billy (depending on map), pig, michael, ghostface, and Clown all get dominated by a ton of tiles.
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How far back are we talking?
I'm interested in the possibilities.
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I was there pre 6.1. It was more fun. Especially considering that the devs took back all of the meaningful killer buffs in that patch.
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See that’s something we can agree on. The game was more fun IMO pre 6.1, but if you’re going to talk about balance, especially that killer is “in its worst state”, you’re just objectively wrong, I’m sorry. You’re equating fun and balance together when that’s just not how it works. The game was more fun because there was a bunch of broken mechanics, not because it was more balanced.
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If you're coming back from a break, you should expect to be a little rusty, no? You can't expect to return to the game and still be able to beat the same teams that you could when you were playing more regularly. Especially not with a Killer that you're just now learning to play. Some Killers you might never vibe with and that's OK (I suck with the Xeno, too). Personally, I think MMR should decay faster with time away and following a string of bad games, but as far as I know unfortunately it doesn't.
I'm not playing at your MMR OP, nor do I have as many hours in the game (only 1000). But from my recent experience, though I face some tough opponents I still win most of my Killer games. Survivor (Solo Q) on the other hand is currently pretty miserable. I'm only really enjoying the Killer side of the game at the moment, if I'm honest.
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Well, that's just not really true at all
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You can’t say my experience isn’t true.
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You see, fun is a part of balance though. Even a killer who isn’t high on the tier list should feel strong and impactful. The modern killer balancing revolves around adding lousy, clunky cooldowns, and a power that is controlled by survivors. Take my main deathslinger. Even at his best he was never one of the best killers. Yet his power was fun and felt fluid. Now he feels clunky and cumbersome to play, in addition to the weaknesses he always had. The killer role doesn’t feel fun anymore.
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"Killer is in the worst state it has ever been"
This is factually and demonstrably wrong.
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What do you expect from someone that always complains on the forums
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Except it isn’t because I have played in the past and found it to be far more enjoyable.
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Most of what you said isn’t even true. There is no perk variety because you have to run gen regression and/or information perks. There is no deviating if you want to win. Killer wipe speed is a laughable change that had no impact.
Basekit borrowed time, off the record, and the off hook speed boost is every bit as powerful as old DS and deadhard. I would rather deal with that old BS instead of this garbage because, again, killer had stuff that was really powerful.
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I was about to comment the same thing about playing a new killer for the first time.
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Hmmmm, no.
5 second DS into old DH is, in fact, MUCH better than basekit BT and a 7% speed boost for a short time. I'm not even mentioning OTR because it doesn't do ######### when the Killer tunnels or proxy's.
I enjoy that you ignore every basekit Killer buff, not to mention individual changes.
Honestly? I think you're rusty. Killer is easier than it's ever been, barring Eruption brainrot meta.
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I try to give people a shot
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What basekit buffs? FOV I guess (although I think that should have been in day 1). But if you’re referencing the wipe animation or speed boost, there’s nothing else to say. Those changes did nothing and 9/10 a survivor is still making a tile.
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FoV should've been standard, on that we agree, along with colorblind settings.
Less Survivor speed boost on hit.
Faster pallet break.
Two stacks of STBFL basekit.
Increase to gen times across the board.
No more gen tapping.
That's not even mentioning perk buffs and nerfs or Killer buffs. Like, self-healing is a shadow of what it once was. There's multiple extremely strong gen regression perks. A multitude of extremely strong Killers.
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Killers were stronger back in 2018. Like yea, the weakest killers were all weaker than they are now, but there was actual power killers like Nurse and Spirit. Now every killer feels gimped, is loaded with cooldowns, and has mostly worthless addons. Modern dbd brought killers closer together, but weaker as a whole. The changes you listed were not helpful or impactful. Survivors still get too much distance after a hit.
I would trade the gen speed and tapping for old ruin and pop in a heartbeat.
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I have almost 20k kills in the game and I’m going to give a hard pass to the idea that the game is worse than ever for killers. There used to be no closing the hatch, which could spawn before the game was even done. Survivors could BNP a gen to completion instantly, and insta heal also. Anyone else remember when survivors could get their exhaustion perks back mid chase, which wasn’t always difficult because the loops were much stronger back then and DH for distance made them even more ridiculous? When Borrowed Time would give the hooked survivor AND the rescuer immunity?
The problem with this game for killers is there’s not much middle ground anymore. You can pick a super strong meta killer and curb stomp most matches. You can pick one of the weak M1 killers and you’ll either dominate with an easy 4k, or you might get one kill.
I play survivor more now because killer is just boring. As survivor I can have intense matches where we battle the killer and come out on top and maybe two of us escape. As a killer you can try to play fair and whittle down the resources survivors have but that typically leaves you with no gens left and 3-4 survivors alive.
The RNG aspect of the maps also hurts killers. Some of the tiles that can spawn in this game just leave certain killers with no counter except to avoid it. I saw a fun looking Wraith build video a few days ago and tried it. Survivors had a side of the map with three gens where they had shack, the window lead directly to a super safe pallet that was not possible to mind game, and to the right of that was an L T wall, and to the right of that was another safe pallet with a window on the opposite side, and to the right of that was a pallet that wasn’t super safe, but had that window to the left side. And that was just one edge of the map. A good looper could keep Wraith occupied for 3-5 gens EASY. So my only option is to ignore that edge of the map and let those three gens go. Except, any time I find a survivor they run there. If I bloodlust my way through some of that junk and get a hit, before I can do it again, someone runs in to take a hit.
Now, if I were say, Nurse, or Blight, or Huntress, or even Clown (my main) those loops would have been completely different. But a killers entire ability to progress a match shouldn’t be removed because of bad RNG. If a survivor runs say, Balanced, maybe there are a couple maps in the game where if they spawn there, they get much less value from it than other maps. But that’s just one perk, not the entire ability of the killer.
Killer has become way too stale. It’s either a curb stomp or 3-4 escape, and the bad part is it’s all up to map RNG or survivor skill, it has very little to do with killer skill now. That’s why you see so many killers who will camp and tunnel. If you have the choice of losing three gens while you tunnel one survivor out of the game versus losing three gens while you try to spread hooks around, why would a killer not just remove one of the survivors?
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