Let’s talk about Buckle-up + For the People

I think they should revert Buckle Up back to its previous iteration, which granted Haste rather than Endurance.

The Haste version is really bad even if paired with FTP. But currently the effect of the combo is quite strong for 2 perk slots. FTP, WGLF, MFT would be more reasonable. BU given Haste would complete the perk combo.

But if BU reverted to Haste. It should apply to all complete healing.

I'm pretty sure the devs acknowledge it in the reddit ask me anything. maybe i wrong!

The combo broken not much to talk about but i don't mind going up against it as killer. I run it when playing survivor and i think people slightly overestimate it. The survivor running it pretty much gotta be right on your a$$ to use it. They are often out of position because of this and can get hit easily. I think background players far worse personally.

All these perks need is to lose synergy. But buckle up itself i think is fine and for the people no one really complained about that perk by itself

MFT’s endurance does not trigger from an FTP heal (because it doesn’t count as healing while being injured) is what I mean.

If you were already injured and had MFT with WGLF, then yeah that’s a solid combo. But it’s not possible to use FTP to force that.

Deactivate the endurance effect in end game (of FTP), and I'm fine with it keeping the synergy.

FTP+BU is a free escape in end game. DS and OTR deactivate in end game to not allow free escapes. But FTP+BU just work regardless. Why? Disabling the endurance for the ftp user in end game would give the killer the chance to trade.

I mean, while this is true, it also means that the Killer got a benefit from the Survivor lurking around waiting to use FTP and Buckle Up.

When it got used on me the last time (as I said, I almost never see it), I got a down 10 seconds later. So instead of getting a Down, I got a Down + 1 injured Survivor with a time investment of 10 more seconds AND the fact that the second Survivor did not progress the game.

Sounds more like a win for me than anything else.

Right, unless survivor can always able to run the killer 1min for each health state. But in that case, I would say survivor is out skill killer and would win anyway.

Ok, so I'm just bad when they use it in end game to get a free escape? DS and OTR explicitly disable in endgame to not allow free escapes. Why is FTP+BU allowed to keep it?

If the purpose of the combo is help against tunneling, why does the FTP user get endurance themselves? This makes the combo not just anti-tunnel, but anti-down. Totally invalidating a whole chase the killer spent their time for. It's a very potent effect, and imo simply to powerful for endgame. Esp. when it's more often the nice, easy-going killers that get hit by it (bc the ruthless killers will make sure to tunnel out ppl to win the game, waiting the combo out).

The killer rule book certainly still exists, especially since 'reasons for tunneling' is encyclopedic just by itself.

But the original 'rule book' included things like 'don't run literal infinites', 'don't permanently sabotage hooks or traps', 'don't use BNP to instantly complete generators from 0'.

All of those things have been addressed and deleted from the game. But now, the rule book has just gotten more entitled over time.

Now, it's things like 'don't play like it's comp by predropping or running to the corner' (usually while the killer tunnels like there's a cash prize), 'don't do gens until the killer builds pressure', 'don't ever use functional tiles or line or sight', 'don't hold w to counter anti loop', 'don't use any useful survivor perks above C tier'.

Which, btw, all of those current reasons (and lots, lots more) are all things people claim are reasons they tunnel.

It’s fine IMO. It requires a second survivor to not be progressing gens and to dedicate half their perks to it, has about a 2 second window to execute, and often leaves one of the survivors still in a vulnerable spot and unable to really get away before the endurance runs out.

Maaaaaybe it can be nerfed slightly by something like making FTP’s broken effect permanent until they get hooked so it’s more risky, but I dunno, I think it’s okay for survivors to have strong perk synergy.

It is a very powerful combo, and once it is decided, it changes the flow of the match, but it is very difficult to decide solo. However, when used by a survivor with the right build at the right time using VC, the threshold drops significantly, so when used by SWF, it becomes a threat that is frequently seen, so the encounter rate will vary greatly depending on which server you are playing on and your skill rate.

If you play on an Asian server during peak nighttime hours, you are quite likely to play with a party that has a couple of these combos.

Not sure why you would, it's not a very good argument.

They really just said, "I play at high MMR and since you peasants don't, you wouldn't get it."

I'm pretty sure that perk combo was started primarily because of Tunneling Killer's since For The People used to be paired with Soul Guard with no issues back during the Silent Hill DLC release until Soul Guard was changed. After Buckle Up was changed it became common to use together instead because it was easier to activate, but at the end of the day For the People is primarily an anti tunnel perk and can be used very successfully without any additional perk for it. Being at high mmr like you said you'd understand that this perk combo is annoying yet not the end of times you so act like it is. it's mostly the choice of the killer to continue chasing someone who they should of dipped on awhile ago, but dont give up that cost them the time. Both sides have some pretty unique perk sometimes annoying combo's that imho bring variety into the game.

I called it that because literally anyone and everyone in the dbd community act's that way towards anything that's mildly inconvenient to broken. Both sides have extremely strong perks and extremely strong to nearly broken combo's that let them gain massive advantage. Some have even been mentioned in this thread for the killer side.

Just pointing out you say your good at debating, but when I point out the actual perk is used for anti tunneling and is still nutty without Buckle Up you skipping over it kinda proves otherwise. You don't wanna debate you want to be right. That's not debating.

As BHVR has mentioned before with multiple perk combo's they limit the build and what people can bring. So if you choose to continue chasing the one person who got rescued than you probably are messing up. In what world does a "high mmr" killer continue a losing chase? Most likely for tunneling out a single person when they are either already losing the match or for the early game to secure easy win's. The whole reason the perk is around is to make tunneling harder by pulling people off the hook giving them a free health state faster than the killer can respond. Than making the killer choose between the person they wanna hook who's probably on death hook and continue chasing them at full health or the person who's injured and probably not on second hook or more than likely not even first hook.

A smart successful survivor is still going to functionally be able to loop you regardless, make it too the next tileset for loops, pallet stun you, another survivor will body block, ETC. Regarding DS, OTR, FtP/BU all invalidate the chase by giving the survivor a second chance. Each one has had multiple post on "how unfair and unbalanced X perk is". Realistically this "combo" requires a second person to be in the vicinity (flashlight and flashbangs can also emulate this effect). You know what that means? 3rd person is not on the gen and being productive. DS, OTR, and FtP+BU all have some form of conditional effect's around them that do balance them out, but they are still extremely viable when used by good survivors and mediocre at best when used by bad survivors. While DS and OTR have a more reactive nature in terms of use FtP/BU has a more preemptive nature, but they all work the same way to deny the killer a hook state.

A good survivor can still pull off a FtP save when using Adept Zarina. Yeah it might be more risky, but the play it still available and still just as strong. You can hit someone through a window vault or pallet vault. Watch them get saved and than be left in the same situation as if they had FtP/BU because you are unable to capitalize on the situation. Again you know what this requires? A survivor not doing something productive. No different than someone waiting around with a flashlight, flashbang, or for a pallet stun. Unless you have Lightborne every single match you will get hit by a flashbang everytime unless the survivor is bad. Flashlights are at least a bit more skill intensive, and pallet stuns are just funny when they work.