Let’s talk about Buckle-up + For the People
This is nowhere an unpopular discussion and for a good reason. The fact that it’s not on their 2024 roadmap is actually insane considering how broken that combo is and I do not throw out that word lightly.
I’m sure 90+% of people here would agree with me since usually people are reasonable and this combo is very problematic but I really like to hear a louder demand from players of both sides for the devs to acknowledge and say that they’ll address the issue.
I’ve observed that this is a very argumentative community but I don’t see a way someone could have something to object my topic. Killers shouldn’t have to worry about more second chances on top of whatever the survivor they’re chasing has equipped. And of course needless to say this is even worse with swfs.
I’m excited to see y’all speak up on the issue and listen to the ideas y’all might have as to how the perks could be reworked so they wouldn’t synergies.
❤️
Comments
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Should just revert Buckle Up to a Haste perk instead of an Endurance perk. Its powercreep has mostly invalidated WGLF.
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Make it so that a minimum of 8 charges must be completed upon the healing action of the downed survivor so that it'll work similarly to Second Wind. Obviously have it deplete if you let go of the downed survivor, or else it'll still be abusable. Buff the Endurance to 12 seconds (+2 seconds) to compensate because it won't activate if the downed survivor is 99'd. I have no idea how to nerf the combo without limiting Buckle Up's activation, so unfortunately that's really the best I could think of.
The thing with Buckle Up is that it's technically fine on its own, it's just the combination of it with FTP that makes it ridiculous. It's hard to really nerf this combo without nerfing one of them, but FTP in particular should not be touched at all.
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Just make FTP not count as a healing action. It would stop this combo while keeping both perks the same strength on their own and any other future healing perk won't have to be adjusted because of a possible synergy with FTP.
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Surprisingly when I made a discussion about it people did try to justify it! I thought it was getting adressed ages ago.
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I think they should revert Buckle Up back to its previous iteration, which granted Haste rather than Endurance.
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I agree. I think this is the easiest solution that doesn't impact Buckle Up when used on its own and it also makes sure FTP combined with some other new or reworked healing-related perk is never a problem again.
The Haste version wasn't worth it. I tried using it several times back when we had that version of it and since there's no guarantee the killer even slugs at all it just didn't feel worth the perk slot, either the killer wasn't nearby and you didn't need the speed boost or they were right on top of you and it wouldn't do anything to help you get away. It only worked if the killer was close by, but not right there, which didn't happen very often.
I don't think Buckle Up would completely invalidate WGLF if the FTP synergy was removed, since WGLF still has the 100% healing speed buff.
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It's gotten so bad in my games I feel like it's required to tunnel out anyone actively trying to FTP+Buckle Up against me just so I have a shot with the other survivors, otherwise it's too much of a risk going for anyone else.
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I know right and then they complain? Like what.
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The Haste version is really bad even if paired with FTP. But currently the effect of the combo is quite strong for 2 perk slots. FTP, WGLF, MFT would be more reasonable. BU given Haste would complete the perk combo.
But if BU reverted to Haste. It should apply to all complete healing.
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Ok if it was the Haste version but it applied to all heals that would actually be pretty good.
Btw though, FTP + WGLF + MFT don't all work together. FTP + WGLF does work (ie. survivor that was picked up gets endurance), but MFT doesn't kick in until after you become injured from FTP and you don't get its endurance. It did work originally, but it was considered a bug since FTP requires you to be healthy and it got removed.
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I'm pretty sure the devs acknowledge it in the reddit ask me anything. maybe i wrong!
The combo broken not much to talk about but i don't mind going up against it as killer. I run it when playing survivor and i think people slightly overestimate it. The survivor running it pretty much gotta be right on your a$$ to use it. They are often out of position because of this and can get hit easily. I think background players far worse personally.
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I wasnt talking about the Haste part of MFT, but the Endurance. WGLF gives Endurance to teammate, MFT gives Endurance for you, BU would be Haste for both.
But, give BU haste on all healing would be a better version of Blood pact.
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All these perks need is to lose synergy. But buckle up itself i think is fine and for the people no one really complained about that perk by itself
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This.
FTP is strong on its own and even BU can have some decent value in any sort of anti-slug build.
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MFT’s endurance does not trigger from an FTP heal (because it doesn’t count as healing while being injured) is what I mean.
If you were already injured and had MFT with WGLF, then yeah that’s a solid combo. But it’s not possible to use FTP to force that.
Post edited by sizzlingmario4 on0 -
It‘s fine. I didn‘t see someone use it for months.
I tried to use it and it‘s not that easy like everyone makes it sound like.
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I think I've played around 500 Killer games since it was buffed.
I've had it used less than ten times on me and of those ten times, it was meaningful twice.
It's great at stopping a tunnel out and giving that player a little more time. I don't have any real issues with it.
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I feel its a perfectly fine reason to tunnel someone. I don't tunnel as a rule, but it's a broken combo, everyone knows it, if you use it, you bring it on yourself :D
The only time the complaint holds water to my mind is if someone uses it to prevent an existing tunnel.
I feel like the Killer's handbook for survivor consists of 1 rule. Don't give the killer a reason to tunnel you 😏
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I almost never see it in my games. Regardless of the side I am playing. But I am sure that people jump on the forums when they see it used once in 100 games and claim it is a problem.
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My experience is similar.
I see it used effectively maybe once a month.
Last time I still managed to down everyone almost immediately after it was used, burning through endurances, while the exits were open.
It takes a perfect storm of conditions to pull off and then profit from.
This is true. I make it a point not to tunnel, but the moment someone tries to use endurance in an offensive manner by forcing a hit through bodyblocking, I consider it permission to tunnel.
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Deactivate the endurance effect in end game (of FTP), and I'm fine with it keeping the synergy.
FTP+BU is a free escape in end game. DS and OTR deactivate in end game to not allow free escapes. But FTP+BU just work regardless. Why? Disabling the endurance for the ftp user in end game would give the killer the chance to trade.
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I still think the only problem of the perk combo is used in the first chase, or in the end game.
Though in the first chase, having a survivor follow and not do gen. Between 2 Gens done with 2 injured survivor, is equal lose to 3 Gens done and a hook. I may prefer 2 Gens done with 2 injured survivors.
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I mean, while this is true, it also means that the Killer got a benefit from the Survivor lurking around waiting to use FTP and Buckle Up.
When it got used on me the last time (as I said, I almost never see it), I got a down 10 seconds later. So instead of getting a Down, I got a Down + 1 injured Survivor with a time investment of 10 more seconds AND the fact that the second Survivor did not progress the game.
Sounds more like a win for me than anything else.
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"I dont see it that often so it is fine"
"It does not have a lot of impact"
Please, it is clearly an overpowered combo. If the majority of survivors use it well or if it is popular or not is not important. The fact that most killer with some exception (PH fe) cant do much about it when they coordinate makes it insanly difficult.
No, i am not a killer main, just an objective person who wants ballanced and fairness.
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Right, unless survivor can always able to run the killer 1min for each health state. But in that case, I would say survivor is out skill killer and would win anyway.
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Ovverated combo
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As long as tunneling is the game, with Pop+Pain Res meta this combo is totally fine imo. I’ve rocked it a couple of times and Killers just wait it out. It’s not that strong like everyone keeps saying. Just skill issue
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I consider myself more killer sided than survivor sided.
I never run this combo as a survivor.
But I don't consider this a significant problem. The times it does become frustratingly powerful are incredibly rare and would likely have been a struggle for the killer anyway.
There are killer perk combos that are far more "problematic".
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Ok, so I'm just bad when they use it in end game to get a free escape? DS and OTR explicitly disable in endgame to not allow free escapes. Why is FTP+BU allowed to keep it?
If the purpose of the combo is help against tunneling, why does the FTP user get endurance themselves? This makes the combo not just anti-tunnel, but anti-down. Totally invalidating a whole chase the killer spent their time for. It's a very potent effect, and imo simply to powerful for endgame. Esp. when it's more often the nice, easy-going killers that get hit by it (bc the ruthless killers will make sure to tunnel out ppl to win the game, waiting the combo out).
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For those saying they “dont see it often”, it indicates where you are on the MMR scale imo. Since the changes, these 2 perks are run by at least 1, if not 2 survivors every match I play.
“Its not really and issue”, you don’t understand the value of delaying the first chase an extra 20+ seconds. The first chase has massive impact on how the remainder of the game goes and extending it into a minute, or minutes because of ftp + buckle up puts the match squarely in survivors hands.
You also now have to either tunnel out the survivor running it or risk having another chase extending later in the match. If 2 are running it, that duo can keep you busy long enough for the other 2 to finish 1-2 gens more, basically GG.
Just cause your playing random pub scrubs walking around the edges of the map, scared to alert crows running ftp + BU cause they read how OP it is on Reddit doesnt mean everyone is. In this setting, of course its a non issue. In a competitive setting where its clearly at least a duo that know how to play well, the killer is in for a sweatfest or at risk of a curb stomp.
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I feel like the Killer's handbook for survivor consists of 1 rule. Don't give the killer a reason to tunnel you 😏
The killer rule book certainly still exists, especially since 'reasons for tunneling' is encyclopedic just by itself.
But the original 'rule book' included things like 'don't run literal infinites', 'don't permanently sabotage hooks or traps', 'don't use BNP to instantly complete generators from 0'.
All of those things have been addressed and deleted from the game. But now, the rule book has just gotten more entitled over time.
Now, it's things like 'don't play like it's comp by predropping or running to the corner' (usually while the killer tunnels like there's a cash prize), 'don't do gens until the killer builds pressure', 'don't ever use functional tiles or line or sight', 'don't hold w to counter anti loop', 'don't use any useful survivor perks above C tier'.
Which, btw, all of those current reasons (and lots, lots more) are all things people claim are reasons they tunnel.
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Exactly when I made this post I really did not expect to have survivor mains under in my comments trying to justify it.
You didn’t use to see a slugging condemn Sadako every single game either back when it was a problem but it did not change that it was an issue?
And as for them saying having someone trail your chase means they’re not on gen, on comms they can easily tell them to rotate towards their gen after the hit and apply FTP+BU that way.
So it’s possible under every and any post on here they’ll be people disagreeing with either willing ignorance or they’re just bored and in need of a debate
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Kinda funny seeing the people who defend this combo are the same ones who were cluctching their pearls over the Grim Embrace + Dead Man's Switch combo from the killers' side. Kinda puts into perspective where some people's priorities truly lie.
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This is the exact reason why no one should play by a Non existent rule book on either side. I sure don’t, it’s not immoral to gen rush or tunnel, it’s Amoral.
Morality should not be brought on to video games specially a HORROR game?? You really expect me to be sunshine and rainbows after launching up this game and picking the role of the killer? No! Do whatever you need to win, and I use need very loosely, do whatever you want.
And no this does not contradict my post, if I played survivor and had the money to purchase those two perks I would be abusing it right now. But it does not change the fact that it’s not balanced or healthy in a general sense and I do love this game enough to understand balance is necessary
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It’s fine IMO. It requires a second survivor to not be progressing gens and to dedicate half their perks to it, has about a 2 second window to execute, and often leaves one of the survivors still in a vulnerable spot and unable to really get away before the endurance runs out.
Maaaaaybe it can be nerfed slightly by something like making FTP’s broken effect permanent until they get hooked so it’s more risky, but I dunno, I think it’s okay for survivors to have strong perk synergy.
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They already made it so FTP didn't proc MFT so I don't know why they can't just make it not proc BU.
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I wish i could pin this comment
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Exactly when I made this post I really did not expect to have survivor mains under in my comments trying to justify it.Pulsar is very far from a survivor main and Seraphor is killer sided.
I'm a survivor main and I'd gladly have this combo pulled out because its the type of thing that weakens the survivors far more frequently than it helps.
And as for them saying having someone trail your chase means they’re not on gen, on comms they can easily tell them to rotate towards their gen after the hit and apply FTP+BU that way.SWFs can run background player+flashlight+go down away from a wall or power struggle+die on pallet+nearby teammate. Both of which can be pulled off without sacrificing a health state and being broken for 60 seconds. The only real benefit of bu+ftp is that you don't have to be in a SWF to pull it off.
So it’s possible under every and any post on here they’ll be people disagreeing with either willing ignorance or they’re just bored and in need of a debateThe fact that something seems obvious to you doesn't necessarily make it correct, that's why we have a discussion forum.
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Not really the case, some here including myself even made threads/posts that GE+DMS is overpowered... because it is.
Same goes for BU+FTP. Also overpowered.
Its important to stay objective - for a greater experience for all of us. Entitelment for one side is not really helpfull.
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I hope i dont get you wrong, but I am not a survivor main, I have plenty of hours on both sides. It may appear sometimes that i am leaning towards survivor but that is only because currently, in my honest opinion, survivors have the bigger problems (while killer also suffer from issues, dont get me wrong)
In this case here, BU+FTP is without a doubt an issue. I ran this combo to see how good it is, and in fact, it can be very good, and very frustrating for the killer.
While it is obivous survivor want to have this combo for anti tunnel reason (a logical reason) i dont think a combo like this is a good solution / justification for having it in the game.
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It is a very powerful combo, and once it is decided, it changes the flow of the match, but it is very difficult to decide solo. However, when used by a survivor with the right build at the right time using VC, the threshold drops significantly, so when used by SWF, it becomes a threat that is frequently seen, so the encounter rate will vary greatly depending on which server you are playing on and your skill rate.
If you play on an Asian server during peak nighttime hours, you are quite likely to play with a party that has a couple of these combos.
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"Comp setting it's an issue"
So it's a non-issue.
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Not sure why you would, it's not a very good argument.
They really just said, "I play at high MMR and since you peasants don't, you wouldn't get it."
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I was posting for a gag tbh... but reading everything there kinda made my eyes bleed...
Thete isn't even a game there... Why don't we just ask Survivors to trip on hooks for us? xD
In seriousness my one rule, I'll play fair and not play mean, on the condition survivors don't try to deliberately harass, frustrate and annoy me. E.g.
- Running Boil Over Sabo squads.
- Harassing me with 3 flashlights constantly.
- Flip Flop Power Struggle pallet duos.
There are things I'll let go once maybe, but if I'll tend to be much less charitable towards: -
- BU + FTP in my face after I've already demonstrated I'm not tunneling or camping.
- Following me all game with Background Player.
- Body blocking me with OFT and Decisive Strike.
Like stuff like teabags and flashlight clicking I let wash off my back, but things like the above to my mind are taking advantage of the fact I'm not playing mean, and that's where I draw the line.
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There are indeed killer combos that are very problematic (i am not getting tired to call this one out every single opportunity i get: GE+DMS) but that does not mean, survivor should also have problematic combos, right?
The effect is just very gamechanging. Sure, we can say this about a few perks, like Unbreakable and Soul Guard, but with that, the killer at least had the choice to pick up. With BUFTP they simply dont, and there is hardly anything they can realisticly do against it. This becomes especially true since the (questionable) STBFL nerf.
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They can at least make it so the survivor has to have been on ground for at least 3 seconds before FTP can trigger, so they cant use it during the attack cooldown, least then if killer acts fast it can have a slight bit of counterplay.
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I'm pretty sure that perk combo was started primarily because of Tunneling Killer's since For The People used to be paired with Soul Guard with no issues back during the Silent Hill DLC release until Soul Guard was changed. After Buckle Up was changed it became common to use together instead because it was easier to activate, but at the end of the day For the People is primarily an anti tunnel perk and can be used very successfully without any additional perk for it. Being at high mmr like you said you'd understand that this perk combo is annoying yet not the end of times you so act like it is. it's mostly the choice of the killer to continue chasing someone who they should of dipped on awhile ago, but dont give up that cost them the time. Both sides have some pretty unique perk sometimes annoying combo's that imho bring variety into the game.
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I didn’t say it was the end of times, you did. Inputting your own comments and calling them mine aka straw man falacy.
this “combo” as is, is broken and you can try to explain it away, or pretend its not but it is. “Both sides…” so you move on from one fallacy to another with no content to to back up your point. I’m good on debating you until you can bring something to the table thats meaningful.
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I called it that because literally anyone and everyone in the dbd community act's that way towards anything that's mildly inconvenient to broken. Both sides have extremely strong perks and extremely strong to nearly broken combo's that let them gain massive advantage. Some have even been mentioned in this thread for the killer side.
Just pointing out you say your good at debating, but when I point out the actual perk is used for anti tunneling and is still nutty without Buckle Up you skipping over it kinda proves otherwise. You don't wanna debate you want to be right. That's not debating.
As BHVR has mentioned before with multiple perk combo's they limit the build and what people can bring. So if you choose to continue chasing the one person who got rescued than you probably are messing up. In what world does a "high mmr" killer continue a losing chase? Most likely for tunneling out a single person when they are either already losing the match or for the early game to secure easy win's. The whole reason the perk is around is to make tunneling harder by pulling people off the hook giving them a free health state faster than the killer can respond. Than making the killer choose between the person they wanna hook who's probably on death hook and continue chasing them at full health or the person who's injured and probably not on second hook or more than likely not even first hook.
A smart successful survivor is still going to functionally be able to loop you regardless, make it too the next tileset for loops, pallet stun you, another survivor will body block, ETC. Regarding DS, OTR, FtP/BU all invalidate the chase by giving the survivor a second chance. Each one has had multiple post on "how unfair and unbalanced X perk is". Realistically this "combo" requires a second person to be in the vicinity (flashlight and flashbangs can also emulate this effect). You know what that means? 3rd person is not on the gen and being productive. DS, OTR, and FtP+BU all have some form of conditional effect's around them that do balance them out, but they are still extremely viable when used by good survivors and mediocre at best when used by bad survivors. While DS and OTR have a more reactive nature in terms of use FtP/BU has a more preemptive nature, but they all work the same way to deny the killer a hook state.
A good survivor can still pull off a FtP save when using Adept Zarina. Yeah it might be more risky, but the play it still available and still just as strong. You can hit someone through a window vault or pallet vault. Watch them get saved and than be left in the same situation as if they had FtP/BU because you are unable to capitalize on the situation. Again you know what this requires? A survivor not doing something productive. No different than someone waiting around with a flashlight, flashbang, or for a pallet stun. Unless you have Lightborne every single match you will get hit by a flashbang everytime unless the survivor is bad. Flashlights are at least a bit more skill intensive, and pallet stuns are just funny when they work.
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they should just make it so slugs can't be healed until 5 seconds pass.
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