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Have BHVR devs ruined DBD for survivors?
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No, if anything, survivors' biggest problems are still their teammates and the MMR system. While survivors have been nerfed, a lot of these nerfs came alongside killer nerfs. Nurse has been nerfed (she could be safely nerfed some more). Blight's gotten his add-ons reworked (nerfed). Even Xeno got nerfed, despite the fact that it was bugged. 3-gen SM got thrown out and replaced with something actually playable, and the 3-gen playstyle as a whole was removed from the game. Oh, and Sadako got nerfed too.
BHVR does seem to be trying new things with survivor. MFT was an attempt at branching out to exhaustion perks that don't cause exhaustion, but only work until you become exhausted. However, based on how MFT turned out, that experiment was a failure, unfortunately. More recently, they seem to have been trying to add more solo que oriented perks. Lucky Star and Boon: Illumination seem to be heavily geared towards providing information to teams who aren't on comms (solo que).
Ultimately, though, the biggest problem in solo que is other survivors. It's rare that I flat out get a solo que game where, despite us playing as hard as we can, the killer just steamrolls us. Usually, we lose because someone plays badly or kills themselves on hook. Sandbagging is a big problem in solo que. Case in point: I was in a game against a Knight on RPD, and he had around 2 or three hooks when 2 gens were left. Our Ada got caught and put on her first hook, and she proceeded to try and kill herself. Our Steve rescued her, but she ran back into the killer and suicided on hook, resulting in a 3K. In that case, the match could have been a 4-man out, but it became a 3K because Ada decided to throw the game.
In solo que, problems come from people killing themselves because a killer isn't "fun" or them never doing gens because they say doing gens is boring. These are problems the devs will never be able to solve, because it's not a mechanics problem, it's a problem that the individual player has. I actually think the game is continuing on in a steady march towards being more balanced, but this is revealing problems outside the game for some players.
Also, as long as the backfill system exists the way it does, MMR will never be a very good system. When you have 5 people in a lobby, the likelihood of someone dropping out is high. Then MMR goes out the window, and what happens in the ensuing game is anyone's guess.
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No the issue is the fact that a small mistake from survivors has MUCH larger consequences then the killer, and while that should be the case, they continue to make the mistakes killers do have less and less punishment.
They are trying to drastically increase the floor which in turn makes the poorer performer struggle more making the experience much worse for them.
I dont see what is fun about oh look billy missed his chainsaw oh its already fully revved again with little ground gained from his mistake. Survivors have to put in much more effort to get less and less rewards, therefor its far less satisfying them. That is all before you factor in any degenerate strats or play styles that just make it far worse of an experience.
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If I'm willing to mislead you, I'm more aligned with Killer in terms of balance. However, this is a modification from the fact that it was originally too advantageous for survivors.
In the past, it was balanced because the survivors didn't have the know-how, but now the balance is reversed and the standard M1 killer is at a disadvantage.
Ultimately, the problem is caused by sloppy MMR's functioning. If the MMR evaluation system counted not only one's own survival but also the survival of other survivors, this would not happen. It doesn't require any effort on anyone's part, as all you have to do is run it in the background or manage it on the server side.
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The game is balanced to favour the killer, survivor is balanced as though everyone is in a SWF, bad matchmaking means a guaranteed loss for survivors, getting hooked once often ends the match for a player (as you're going to get tunneled straight off the hook), and if someone gets killed early in the match there's no way for survivors to bounce back, so they just have to play through the match with no hope of winning (not to mention that if you actually try and keep going the match will last forever).
Is it really a shock that survivors aren't having good time? Most new survivor perks are either mediocre or boring (sometimes both). Adding basement self-care? What an interesting perk. Basement Deliverance that doesn't work in end game? Exciting. A gen perk that requires you to sit on your rear end in the basement for two minutes straight? Fantastic.
It's too easy to just say that every survivor who is having a lousy time is entitled. Let's be real, it's just an excuse to disregard every complaint survivors have.
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Well it is in a much better state because it is way more balanced now than before. Killer gameplay was unbearable at that time due to the game simply limiting their actions. Survivor gameplay is not broken. In my opinion, it is just a skill and missing coordination issue in most of the cases. Especially in Solo Queue. But technically, all the options are still available to build strong survivor teams. Stats on SWF proove that.
I wonder why Killer is constantly on 100% Bloodpoints during the nighttime in my region.
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It's the same in my country. This seems to be related to the overall percentage of players who understand game balance. Any other explanation would be impossible.
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In my region (NA East) the bloodpoint bonus usually switches to killer around 7 pm and I think the reason is the same as it has for years, you play way more SWFs at night than compared to the day. People are off work/school and play with their buddies and a lot of people would rather not have sweatier games where they have to try harder to win.
Also, a lot of people also just want to play with their friends in this game and there’s obviously only one role to do this with. I’d play a lot more killer at night but it’s the only time I can play the game and same goes for my buddy so we just end up playing survivor (bHVR please drop the 2v8 mode 🙏).
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I escape around half the time on solo. Granted I'm a meta spamming loser (SB, Adrenaline, Distortion, and OTR) and bring a med kit every match (bc soloq teammates don't know about healing) though. Typically, I die but I always get the sense that I did decently well and was helpful to the team. Thats normally enough for me to feel satisfied with a match (unless I got hard tunneled; but that rarely happens because SB+OTR).
I guess I'm just lucky with my teammates, I normally get at least semi-competent players. Like at the very least they know to do gens and don't insta drop every pallet. I never bring a team-based build unless I'm SWFing though. You never know what kinda megheads you'll get matched with...
As killer I mostly play blight (with meta) but I never tunnel unless playing nice will lose me the game (as in not tunneling the survivor when there's 1 gen on a big map with no kills or something). Sometimes I'll just slug a death hook survivor because I don't wanna remove them from the match that early but I still want the pressure etc. I normally 2k unless the survivors are just better, 3king if there's a dummy who doesn't do gens. Playing without tunnels is balanced imo, but if you want to win you definitely are. I did a win streak on blight that got to 48 wins pre-addon nerfs. I'm not even that good at blight, I just ran alch ring and c33 every single match and dragged the poor survivors to dead dawg for 48 games and hard tunneled with UW. It was NOT hard. There were p100 (presumably) 4man swfs getting rolled by my mediocre gameplay. I'd like to blame that mostly on the map and old addons though. Obviously the smallest map with addons that make blight better than nurse will be a free win. Whenever a ward was in play is was much harder... I'm just lucky I was never brought to GoJ.
The same can be said for survivor as well. Not for soloQ... but if a SWF wants to win they can take me to GoJ with full meta etc etc etc. The only real chance I'd have in that situation would be hard tunneling (if I wasnt using the free win build from before, even then it would be tough against good survivors on GoJ). If any player on either side really wants to win they can, its just more accessible to killers as a solo role. Nerf tunneling, buff DS.
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These systems fixed problems that people were complaining about. Killers can't really force hour long matches since after 8 regression events that gen can't be defended as easily. Not to mention how the system absolutely destroyed perks like Eruption.
Antifacmp prevents you from sitting on hook for 2 minutes as you stare at the killer's face the entire time.
BT off hook prevents you from just going down and being rehooked immediately.
You can say they didn't solve anything, because they don't stop legit tactics. But you would much rather these systems be in place than the alternative.
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"Do you miss the old DHDS Combo"
I think this part is a case of nostalgia fever. Actually think hard back to those times with old old DH where survivors would use it for distance. Playing killer was brutal. The game is in a better state now but I do agree that they're middle fingering survivors and the game is currently more killer sided. Don't blame the devs. It's hard to find such an equal balance in a game with such a huge variety of killers, killer powers, map layouts and perks. It's not an easy job to please everyone.
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Killer is so easy, that me, who is terrible at it and vomits from first person narrow pov can still get 4Ks.
As survivor, I can't escape usually, if ever. I mean my BF niece is 10 and can get 4K with Freddy and she got him to p100 on switch. It's like why lol
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Although he is a brand new character and the Tome is actually forcing people to use his perks, they are already pretty niche.
CoL is played less then 3,77%, Deadline sits on 1,30% and Boon: Illumination has a whopping 1,05% usage rate. If they would be any good, they would be used much more.
Or was this sarcasm?
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Nobody says the game is not 40% escape rate (while at this point survivors escape rate probably droped below 40% due to the recent killer buffs). An issue is, that we have already reached that point and BHVR keeps buffing killer. Its nonsense, plain and simple.
Another issue is the overall idea of BHVR to even make one side win more often then the other side. Sure, the killer is the star in DBD in some way, but one player should not have the luxury to win more often, have a better experience and overall more fun while 4 other players dont have that.
Survivor are furious because enough is enough. During the last years, killer got one buff after another, while survivor only (!) received nerfs. Here and there a bad perk got buffed to mediocre, but thats about it. Everything once was decent lies in the dust, while killer shine so bright.
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No I don’t lose every solo q match. I win 40-60% of them.
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Is that a balancing problem or are most of your teammates just very bad? You can give them 10 buffs but it wont suddenly make them good. People have to learn and get better.
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Pretty good thread, so far!
The hyperbole is real, while reality shows that the game is thriving on Steam (top percentile) and also in the most played games on PSN/XBL.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE!
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I win some and lose some as survivor. Nothing extraordinary. I seldom play with a mic.
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If DHDS was op then it would show in the stats. Yet the kill rate back then was around 50%.
"Playing killer was brutal."
It seems like if it's not easy to get a 3 or 4k every game then the game is survivor sided. Getting a 4k SHOULD be hard, not a walk in the park like it isnow.
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They hardly did. The 3 gen tech gave killers additional regression for literally nothing. They were so scared to put anything in place without giving the killer something as compensation .
The facecamp tech is also useless because killers not just stand outside of range of it staring at the player. And if someone goes in to try to save and run out. It fills soo slow that its basically a face camp.
The BT lets killers count out the debuff and just hit them anyways so it accomplishes nothing.
These tools arn't fixing anything, the camping is still happening, the knocking down the unhooked person is still happen. Stop pretending that those issue suddenly were resolved just because they were given a tiny buffer.
Its remarkable that they refuse to hard remove something because it isnt fun for survivors because its at the cost of the killer. Yet things that were fun or interesting for the survivors they completely remove. Killer plays bad and all survivors get out hatch, keys are now worthless. Being silent after getting hit, removed because killers didnt like looking. Those were things killers complained about and they get significant changes that remove those from play. While we get half assed attempts at resolutions because they dont want to upset the killer side.
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Standing in front of the hook for 2 minutes preventing any sort of interaction was the problem. The anti-facecamp system does the job at removing the uninteractive playstyle.
Holding a 3 gen infinitely for 1 hour was never meant to be something people should be going out of their way to achieve. The 3 gen system makes it much harder for force 1 hour games on to other players.
Tunneling and Camping themselves are fine and these systems were never going to remove it, because you don't like your human opponent having the free will to decide how they want to play. I'm sure you wouldn't like a system that forces survivors to have to get every gen to the same % threshold before they can progress gens to the next % threshold.
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From a company perspective it makes no sense why they would want to ruin the game for 80% of the players to make it more fun for 20%.
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I don’t really understand how people say the game is dying I bet it’s one of the most popular games on xbox game pass
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Solos will win if they play properly, are gen efficient and work as a team. 1 weak link and the match becomes a struggle.
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It's popular relative to the average game. Go look at the average player count in September of 2021 (when they added MMR) and compare it to now. 51k vs 31k. That's a massive decrease by any standards.
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For many serious Survivors, the oversupply of base kits was a bummer as it made the game boring and simplistic.
Casual players often don't know how to use tactics, so it may be necessary to give some consideration to them, but I made it boring anyway.
In the first place, asking only about advantages and disadvantages and taking away the strategy of the game will lead to the loss of 20k players.
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No I think that the game developers should respect their players time in the game. And queing into a match where the killer can focus one person down and prevent them from playing by standing just out of range, and only going after them through tunneling. And to do that and be REWARDED is horrendous design.
Along with the fact that you seemed to miss in the pervious post. Killers get what they want. They didn't want to have to actually look for survivors because of iron will despite that being a valid strat. So now its useless. Killers didn't think it was fair if they did poorly that everyone could escape from the hatch. So they removed it and made keys worthless. The issue is that these are half measures that the yare implementing for the survivors, while they do full removal for the killers requests.
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What is with these profile picless survivor mains throwing pity parties like the devs didn't kill 3-gens and camping
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Absolutely- I feel like I lose 85% of my games as survivor. I rarely escape, and this has been a thing for almost two years now. I don’t like the whole escape = wins & raise in MMR mechanic. I wish it was based on how well you played, or at the very least- a combination of both. The amount of time spent in a match cushions your drop supposedly, but tunneling by killers takes care of that.
Matches are imbalanced. I get too many advanced players as killer vs. me and my 3 teammates who very inexperienced. And that’s because MM prioritizes filling a lobby quickly over quality matches where everyone is close in skill. I see it all the time when i end up in a lobby with single digit prestige Megs (mask Meg is my favorite), Dwights, and Fengs. The few times I didn’t lobby dodge hoping they were experienced players on a new account or console, I was sadly disappointed to learn they were indeed fairly new players who MM threw me in to play with them. I don’t think there is enough new Killer players to go around.
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The existing advanced killer stands on the deceased intermediate killer corpse. They all left their bodies and their soul passed away.
If they can develop a legitimate adjustment that they can return, You will be blessed with a good match.
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Too many killers to go next to at this point. They just added skill less billy to the list, looks like they are doing the same to the huntress.
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It's on the most played lists for Xbox/PSN/Steam.
Also one of the most profitable games on Steam.
That's reality.
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Getting killed first in the match didn't mean you didn't get to play.
It's clear to me you'll never be happy with survivor focus changes until it makes it so you can escape every game.
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My post history on this forum shows that I've been very anti-lobby dodging and frequently thrown my support behind BHVR doing something to stop it. They haven't really shown much concern about it beyond doing some small tests last year that we haven't heard anything about, so I've reached the point where I feel if BHVR are not bothered by it then I'm not gonna be bothered by it either. The last few days I've been lobby dodging and picking my team mates and honestly, I've had a much better experience. Escape rate hasn't changed, which is fine, just the quality of the matches I'm getting are so much more enjoyable. It's only been a couple days so it could just be a fluke at this point but I'm gonna test it out a bit more and see. Do you find the same sort of thing when you do it?
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Yes, I’m exactly like you and have the same experience. I’m not a fan of lobby dodging either, but it’s frustrating knowing the system will use you as filler after “X” amount of que time has passed. I too can take my losses, but I prefer fairer matches where the killer outplayed me and my team of similar skill, rather than newbies giving up or making rookie mistakes. After games like those, it makes me question how many players before me were smart enough to dodge that lobby? A lot of times everyone will be readied up, including killer- and the lobby timer is shorter after I join. That indicates to me that players before me were leaving the lobby after seeing prestiged 4 masked Meg. 🤣
lol you make a good point. They say the middle class is shrinking/being eliminated IRL, so a fair comparison could be intermediate killers in DBD? 🤔
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I guess additional to add - killers can now pretty much ignore pallets - Literally the only safe thing in DBD for survivors have essentially become useless against the latest killers.
i.e. chucky can go right under it, Xeno can hit over it, I mean, Larry can just eat them.
Latest killer (the unknown) just uses his ability in front of it and you're hit. He can also just hit through every wall too so that's saying something. But literally now, survivors drop the pallet, and I can take a health state. These bits of wood are meant to be safe for those survivors.
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Fair - b
I have played the game since the beginning and it was ALWAYS in the killers favour. There were groups of people who made the game very difficult with perk combo and real bully squads... not people these days who try to mess around with head-on or attempt a CJ... but real co-ordinated bully squads.
I know what it was like and how brutal it was... but actually the reason it was so brutal was the Pip system... stacking 4 out of 5 pips at Rank 2 to lose 8 games and be back to Rank 5 again.
But I rarely find the games overbearingly difficult as killer, but that's because my goal is to get at least 2K. But saying that, I still to do this day win majority of my killer games (3ks+). I've notice the benefit of gen changes and 5% kicks, just an example of buffing killers.
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I have played the game since the beginning and it was ALWAYS in the killers favour. There were groups of people who made the game very difficult with perk combo and real bully squads... not people these days who try to mess around with head-on or attempt a CJ... but real co-ordinated bully squads.
I know what it was like and how brutal it was... but actually the reason it was so brutal was the Pip system... stacking 4 out of 5 pips at Rank 2 to lose 8 games and be back to Rank 5 again.
But I rarely find the games overbearingly difficult as killer, but that's because my goal is to get at least 2K. But saying that, I still to this day win majority of my killer games (3ks+). I've notice the benefit of gen changes and the 5% kicks, just an example of buffing killers.
Post edited by Lit on1 -
I don’t think it’s fair that newbie survivors take the blame for terrible games, or that veteran players avoid them. The prestige 4 Meg with a mask may have a killer who lobby shopped until they found her lobby (quite likely). Newbies need space to learn but can’t learn if they’ve got a killer who lobby shopped for an easy game turbo tunneling them at 5 gens. I understand you both to be frustrated with subpar teammates but I think it’s important to shift the blame where it rightfully belongs. That isn’t on newbies
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Killers and survivors are both ruined. Why does it always have to be an us vs them topic?
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Always funny to read that getting bad teammates is the killer's fault...
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"With the consistent middle finger to survivors (removing MFT, stopping gen regression, mangled/haemorrhage changes etc)"
If you don't think MFT was a glaring problem, I don't know what to tell you dawg.
The other two things you said had flipside nerfs for killer that you conveniently ignored. Killers can no longer 3-gen, and thana got nerfed + sloppy butcher is on the roadmap for a nerf.
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I didn't say it was or wasn't a problem - Just to note though, don't forget almost all killers are faster than survivors even with MFT and it's 3% speed. I rarely saw top MMR killers struggle against MFT if I'm honest, but that's separate to the point I was trying to convey. MFT was in the game for like what... 2 months? so time to remove... ok.
I'm suggesting that Devs look at survivor perks and are like, "hey lets just gut it completely" -... DS, DH, MFT, and on the cards Adrenaline (the last remaining "good perk" imo which only activated once and you have to get to end game)... Yes 4 players running Adren sucks that's fair. But it takes a while to get there...
What I'm suggesting with the statement of "consistent tent middle finger to survivors" is the aforementioned perks for survivors get ripped apart whilst killer perks like STBFL stayed untouched for years, and even when it's changed its like... the smallest change. Here we are with Ultimate Weapon still months away from being reviewed (strong perk for me).
Thana wasn't nerfed for years and was overbearing on at least 4 killers - it was a poorly designed perk for legion/plague - that's it. The rest didn't matter. And yes... months away from sloppy being reworked... that should have been fixed ages ago.
How often do I 3 gen as killer... only when the survivors made it so.. like they did the gens on one side of the map so I would take advantage of it... But the 5% / gen tap removal has been big for me so it's even better (i.e. buff to killer, nerf to survivor).
I would have to kick 3 gens 24 times to get blocked out of my 3 gen... killers only doing that if they're sweating.
Question then, how many have seen the gens blocked (by the killers own doing) since the change. When I play survivor, I've only ever seen a blocked gen for a killer (8 kicks) maybe once since it was implemented. But I've certainly seen a killer benefit from the 5% and gen tap at least 100 times.
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Have BHVR devs ruined DBD for survivors?
Only until the next time they ruin it for Killers
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Movement speed buffs? You know the base speed for killers has been 4.6m/s (115%) since 2016. Are you talking about individual killers?
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If these survivor perks were so overpowered then it would show in the stats right? Yet the data says the kill rate back then was around 50%, which by defintion is much more balanced than now. It seems like anything that could give a challenge to killers is seen as problematic by killer mains and the devs. Survivors are just supposed to flop over and be fodder for a killer's fun.
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I literally stopped playing killer because if I put in literally any effort I had a 90% kill rate. I'd frequently play while watching tv in order to get it closer to 75%. Its braindead easy even after 4king 50 games in a row to try and boost my mmr. Maybe you're just bad?
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Nowhere did they state they were high mmr, they were using their rank/grade to indicate play time and how negatively the recent changes have impacted that play time.
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Red Ranks and everyone else are too different worlds. They try to balance for red ranks, because that's all they care about. In red ranks, killers get bullied by competent survivors, ergo survivors in lower ranks are going to get buff tucked.
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Survivor is fine for the most part? At least balance wise but it's a 4v1 so balance will periodically swing between the survivor's favour and killer's favour. I think people mistake balance as the woe of survivor rounds when it's really mostly an attitude problem, the role by definition is supposed to be a team role but there's no real inclanation for anyone to work like a team. Sadly, more often than not most people you'll be teamed up with (especially as a solo survivor) are pretty selfish and will put themselves above everyone else, even at the team's detriment and I just don't think you can balance your way out of that conundrum unless you literally baby these people.
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