Adrenaline is being added to the perk watchlist for potential changes (nerfs)
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Boy, I sure hope it doesn't get nerfed. I'm tired of the devs nerfing good but not OP perks, which I would definitely classify Adrenaline as. They should rather spend the time and effort buffing/reworking the countless garbage perks that nobody uses and make them actually worth using. That would be a better way to reduce the pick rates of the good perks if that's what they're trying to do.
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Good. It has been meta and overpowered for far too long.
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Remember when BHVR reworked Hangmans Tricland made it a Scourge Hook perk? Yeah, me neither, I had totally forgotten about this, because it was such a grandiose fail of a rework.
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To be fair, Hangman's Trick not being very good still doesn't quite outweigh the fact that, say, Gearhead and Furtive Chase are now quite good. Those two are just off the top of my head, too, I know they've done more I've forgotten about.
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It's funny that you mention Pain Res because that perk was even more busted than Adrenaline is and still is superstrong after a so-called nerf which made it stronger in a different set of circumstances.
To your question: Survivors focused on other perks before, so Adrenaline took a backseat. OOO, DS, DH, Spine Chill + Resilience, MFT, whatever else there was. The metagame does not always include the most dominant perks or strategies while the terms are often wrongly used synonymously. Just because it was not changed or complained about to a big degree all this time does not mean it never was overpowered. When the game was more survivor-sided and players were worse, it simply was not as attractive, important or necessary enough to reveal its strength to everyone.
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I laughed how this perk was never getting used by any killer to, surprise, surprise, not being used again. Lmfao.
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I totally see where you’re coming from but IIRC adrenaline has been an S tier perk by most of the community since it’s existence.
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I've never understood the argument that Adrenaline shouldn't wake up survivors. Thats exactly what Adrenaline does! Have you ever woken up from a nightmare? It was because of Adrenaline.
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I could easily see the change to it becoming basically a med kit syringe.
You get the speed boost immediately as the final generator is activated, and are healed 15/12/10 seconds after that as long as you don't take damage. This would help you get some distance on the killer to make the 10 seconds (or 8 or 5 or however long they decide on) a viable amount of time while also giving the killer the heads up that you're about to heal.
If you are broken, in the killer's grasp, or on the hook, the heal will not affect you.
These changes will certainly put the perk more in line with the perks that have been released since the first few content patches in strength, I think.
Personally, I don't think the perk is overly powerful as it currently stands, with the only issue being the pause while hooked/in the killer's grasp. How are you getting that shot of adrenaline while you're fighting against the Entity on the hook? It doesn't really make sense to have it activate when you get unhooked to me.
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Never doubted that. I said it might have been underused despite being this good. Dominant vs part of the meta and all that.
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Okay, then its just another SoloQ Problem. Blocking Slugged and Hooked Auras is not a problem on SWF when you can just tell them where you are slugged or hooked.
The best and most powerful part of Ultimate Weapon is knowing where everyone is via screaming.
A Billy/Blight just running around blocking Gens via Dead Man Switch making people scream with Ultimate Weapon, simultaneously detecting where everyone is, is MORE powerful than blocking Auras where simply speaking to a teammate nagates it.
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I'd hope so. Needs to get rid of the on hold affect and only activate while not being interacted without by the killer via, carrying or hooked.
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Why?
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Recovering exhaustion just makes it a worse version of vigil so that’s a bad idea
And blood rush is also a thing so that idea outright guts adrenaline
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Then its the part of Hex perks are powerful and risk of being disabled. 2 perks arent even able to compare in the beginning to say one perk has more counter to the other so the other should getting nerfed, the only thing they have in common is only available when 5 Gens done.
The argument is pointless actually, its not like Devs look at my comments and decide not to nerf it.
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Hex perks are powerful?
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Oh, yeah I was unclear.
I mean recover a health state and recover from exhaustion.
So the difference is only that instead of a blanket 5s 150% (which is fine but boring to my mind), you basically choose the form of your Adrenaline... be that:
- Sprint Burst for a similar effect as current.
- Lithe for window hoppers.
- Balanced Landing enjoyers are cool.
- Dead Hard if you haven't used it yet, and Adrenaline recovers your Deep Wound, so thats nice.
- Overcome for a mad dash to exit.
- Head On or Smash Hit if you're a nutbar.
- Background Player if you're trying for big saves.
Like to me, this is a slight nerf that:
- Obviously drops 2s (in most instances).
- Doesn't necessarily guarantee value if the survivor misplays it and your exhaustion perk has its own counters.
- Requires more build commitment with an exhaustion perk, and can't just be slapped on any build.
- Not equal value for all 4 survivors if they all take it (ones not in chase don't get a head start to gate any more than their normal exhaustion perk provides).
However this does buff it in terms of allowingsurvivors to be in direct control of when they use it.
It makes the perk more interesting overall to my mind.
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By that logic survivors should also suffer a health state when falling from a great hight, realism isn't, and shouldn't be, this game strong suit.
The problem with the Adrenaline and Freddy interaction is, that he is already a pretty weak killer and this perk kicks him in the gonads when he is already writhing on the floor, it's so unnecessary. It's also the only perk that directly interacts with a specific killer or power.
Both together are enough reasons to do warrant the removal of the wakeup mechanic through Adrenaline
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For real, this could be a really fun change. I could see a small 1/5 perk slot sized mini picture in the corner of Adrenaline, showing the exhaustion perk that it's giving a 9ne shot off.
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Because I dislike the perk being able to give the fre health state when hooked or being carried.
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Only a few, Noed, Haunted, Devour. Most are needed a buff (not in strength, but in time buying) but thats another story.
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Adrenaline is a perk that works and that's what makes it strong. Most survivor perks nowadays are a different flavor of "I'm going to spend the rest of the game at a disadvantage in exchange for marginal gains in the future" like the new Invocation perk, or some aspect of "I'm going to have a weak effect with no drawbacks" like the Alan Wake flashlight perk.
Adrenaline's trade off was playing with one less perk throughout the entire game in exchange for a free heal and a speed boost at the end game, but as Decisive Strike showed us, that's no longer enough, so they're probably gonna stack conditions to it like having to charge it up and remaining exhausted for the entire game or God knows what.
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Terminus from wesker does counter half of Adrenaline
You still have the boost but you don't get healed
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Nooooooo. This game has always been based around killers . Killers can do all type of things and all we can do is run( of course we get perks but you get the point ) . It’s already so hard to make get all the gens done with out being tunneled. Not only do killers get BUFFS all the time they get SUPER BUFFS ..huntress can start off with 10 axes 😭😭 like what most killers don’t even have to hit you any more they can just run around throwing things . I swear I played against a billy who ran so fast I thought it was ultra instinct goku . this perk is the only thing we got as a survivor main . Please don’t make the game harder then what is already is because it really favors killers.
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Because it leads to free-escape scenarios. If the gate's 99'd when you're rescued, and you're fully healthy with a massive speed boost, there's no way you're not escaping.
Other perks (on both sides) get changed to make the endgame more tense by removing that kind of guarantee, it'd make sense for Adrenaline to get the same treatment.
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Adrenaline is one of the most overpowered survivor perks that still remains untouched. If the Killer is playing Hit & Run, this perk counters that and removes the entire pressure if multiple people are injured. If the Killer is tunneling, it only delays catching the survivor by a few more seconds. Adrenaline punishes the most engaging gameplay (spreading the pressure) for both Killer and Survivor.
Also, I'm not sure how people can compare it to, let's say, Grim Embrace. Even if ALL survivors were running Adrenaline and got no value from it, it still would be 12 perks against the Killer's 4. The average Killer perk should be at least a bit stronger than the average Survivor perk simply because the Killer can only run 4 while the Survivors can run 16. It's a teamwork game after all, not a 1v1.
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since when is adrenaline free? Last time i check you need to do 5 gens as a team and stay alive
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It an endgame perk. It’s supposed to be strong. And it works 1 time all game
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Is it supposed to be an instant-win button?
More importantly, is it a guaranteed escape if it activates when you aren't on the hook/being carried?
If the answer to both of those is 'no', then it makes sense to change that part of the perk.
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You dont insta win. That depends on many other factors like how many survivors are left and what perks the killer is playing and what type of killer you’re playing vs.
and again your team did 5 gens and you went the entire trial with 3 perks. You should still get that perk if youre not dead. I personally find the complaints about adrenaline baffling because you have to earn it compared to other perks in the past where you basically do nothing to get the strong effect (dead hard and mft).
also solo que is a thing. You cant see eachothers perks so if i get hooked (not dead) as the last gen gets done apparently i should get screwed over by not getting the effect by the perk? Sorry thats a terrible idea
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
If those two very low bars are met - the gate is at least close to open and you're on the hook when the last gen pops - yes, you do.
The killer might be able to circumvent it if they have Exposed, but even if they do, you get a massive speed boost on top of being fully healed. That is as close to a guaranteed escape as you can get, and easily comparable to the free escape Decisive Strike gave before it got that removed.
Remember that we're not talking about getting rid of Adrenaline functioning as normal. Most times when Adrenaline pops, you're not on the hook, at least in my experience. It's just that one scenario where the killer's put in a losing position because they hooked someone close to the endgame. You shouldn't get to guarantee an escape the same way the killer shouldn't be able to guarantee a kill, there should be at least some input from both sides.
As to solo queue, fix that, don't keep something broken in the game because of it. Let solo queue teammates see each other's perks.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
As @Akumakaji said, realism isn't the point here.
Adrenaline waking survivors up was never meant to be "thematic". It was added together with patch 1.8.1, which was already a massive, undeserved nerf to Freddy.
This isn't even outdated design, it is something that should have never been added to the game.
Having this effect removed is the only nerf Adrenaline needs.
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If the gate is open and you were hooked very close to it, you were gonna lose anyway assuming youre teammates arent dead.
i have had adrenaline active multiple times after i got unhooked because thats just how the game can go sometimes but im not dead yet and we got the gens done so i shouldnt be screwed out of that. The devs already said the ability to see eachothers perks could take years so🤷♂️ nah im not trying to see it nerfed when i dont have control over my teammates getting the gen done while im on the hook.
If you want to nerf the speed? Sure i can be open to that idea
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I agree
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What's stopping the killer from simply camping the hook in end-game (which the majority do), hitting the person that tries to unhook, seeing the person off-hook has adrenaline and then simply downing the person who got injured trying to save? It's a trade at the very least the majority of the time. A full team body block is the only scenario I can think of as long as you didn't hook them directly next to an exit gate, which if you did, is on you (the majority of the time, there are definitely certain scenarios where it's necessary due to hook spread and where they went down).
I think I agree with you though that it shouldn't activate when on the hook, but part of me also thinks that killer shouldn't have a guaranteed kill simply because they hooked somebody in end-game. Certain killers can easily turn a single hook in end-game into a 4k due to their power strongly coinciding with face-camping, and there's very few perks I can think of besides adrenaline that prevent these scenarios from happening.
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You don't have to be close to it if you have Adrenaline, because you're fully healthy and have a massive speedboost. That's why it's so strong in general and much moreso when you're just unhooked.
Nothing, but Adrenaline still gave that survivor a free guaranteed escape.
I also agree that killers shouldn't have a guaranteed kill, but to be fair, most of them don't. Perks disable in endgame but the basekit BT doesn't, so you always have a chance to get out. Beyond that, it is worth pointing out that no killer can turn an endgame hook into a 4k without the survivors massively playing into it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they shouldn't be changed anyway.
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Absolutely. I think this more so boils down to playing altruistically or looking out for yourself though. Are the survivors going to put others over themselves and trade places with the person on the hook or are they just going to take their escape? It doesn't really matter at the end, it's still a kill for the killer unless they specifically had a vendetta against that individual. Most of these scenarios simply end with one person dying, who that one person is doesn't really matter.
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Instant win?
Pure hyperbole.
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Not really?
If those two conditions are met, which isn't very difficult, how on earth would you lose? You'd have to be miles away or facing a very specific killer + perks combo to not be able to get out of the gates while fully healthy and with a speed boost like what Adrenaline gives you.
Adrenaline isn't an instant win button in general, but having Adrenaline held on hook when the gate is 99'd (or close to it) is absolutely as close to a guaranteed win as you can get.
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I think it should just remove the waking up effect.
Idk why this one perk just counters Freddy's power and only Freddy's power. I dont even main Freddy, I think he is boring to play as/against, and even I think it's dumb.
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You probably shouldn't be complaining about ultimate weapon if you don't even know what the perk does. There is no haste effect involved with UW.
Secondly, blindness is a useless status effect in high level play anyway.
Thirdly, killers have 4 perks, survivors have 16. It ALWAYS makes sense that killer perks should be stronger than the survivor counterpart to them, simply because there are less perks to go around and by design of the game being a 1v4. The 1 should always be stronger than 1 of the 4.
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You don‘t win, because of adrenaline and you earned it by getting all 5 gens done.
First of all you need to do all gens for it to even do something and then you can also be negatively affected by it. For example you are on a gen healthy and the last gen pops, then you are exhausted and if the killer decides to chase you now, all your perks that don‘t work while being exhausted don‘t work anymore.
If they change it to not work after being unhooked, the perk will become useless and frustrating to play. The only one, who will suffer from that is solo q.
According to your logic pain res and pop have to get nerfed very hard. Those perks alone give killers free wins and I doubt you will accept that truth.
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Idk why this one perk just counters Freddy's power and only Freddy's power
I can actually answer that, but it is a sad tale.
Originally, Adrenaline did not wake you up when playing against Freddy. This effect was added together with patch 1.8.1, also known as "the Freddy nerf". And yes, that is the nerf which happened a week after his release because some players refused to adapt.
Adrenaline waking you up was just one of his undeserved nerfs from back then.
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Once Adrenaline is nerfed Hope will be then OP.
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True, but killers will never be happy. Even when calm spirit would be the strongest perk, they would still ask for it to be nerfed and then the next one.
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Yes, you earn it by all five gens being done, which is why it's balanced for its main use case to be strong.
However, its main use case is that strong AND you get a guaranteed escape in the scenario I've explained already. That much isn't balanced, in my opinion; it'd make sense to remove the edge case while also allowing it still be strong in its typical use case.
Pop and Pain Res would have to do what they currently do AND have some very specific endgame interaction that outright guarantees one survivor won't escape in order for my logic to apply to them. They aren't actually causing free wins, they're just strong. Adrenaline does guarantee you an escape if you're unhooked while the gates are being done, because only very specific combos can even put any element of risk back in there.
Not that 99'd gates are a particularly risky time for survivors anyway, to be fair, but the point remains. It goes from minimal risk to zero risk.
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I hope that‘s the only change they do. I don‘t understand why they even made it wake you up. Being in the dream world is an advantage in my opinion and far more relaxing to play in.
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Ahh I don't use this perk on survivor, but I can just say when I play killer (Spirit) I do not find it problematic.
As I mentioned in the other thread, perhaps they'll remove the waking up aspect of it when vs Freddy.
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Yeah, I'm honestly scared Adrenaline will end up being gutted. All they need to do is remove this effect.
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TBF by today's standard the perk is useless even as a concept, back then sabotaging was not as uncommon vs today.
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