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Balance Suggestions
Assertion: If you held a gun to my head, I'd have to admit the game is balanced, but it's balanced in the most brutal way possible.
It's balanced because camping, tunneling and three genning are all options. As long as the game has these nuclear options, the game MIGHT be balanced, but it's certainly never fun.
1) Make camping impossible. Please, instead of a meter that almost never actually moves, make it so that when a survivor is hooked, the killer is automatically (and instantly) teleported to the most progressed gen. Scourge is more profitable. Pop Goes The Weasel is more profitable, and the Killer can amp up the pressure.
2) Do more to make tunneling unprofitable. Suggestion: If a survivor is unhooked and then goes into chase, gen speed is increased by X percent (5-10).
3) Fix the maps. RPD is all but a guaranteed win for Killer. Red Forest is almost a guaranteed loss for Killer. I'd recommend you look at your Autohaven maps as examples. Maybe McMillian. Those maps feel balanced. The map shouldn't immediately indicate a win or loss for either side.
4) Some killers use those techs because of gen speed. I actually track stats on killer (my own stats) My data (and I'd love to see stats if you have it) says that games where the gens are done in LESS than 500 seconds are usually losses for killer (not always, but usually). However, games where gens take at least 500 seconds are usually wins (but not always). So make it so it takes 500 for all 5 gens (I'd sign off on gens taking base 120 seconds. Tool boxes and perks will shrink it). But you can't do step 4 without doing steps 1-3. Please consider these suggestions.
Comments
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Is this the game not difficult enough for the killer?
I am a player who plays both survivor and killer. "The opinions of players who play only one role are unfair and biased. You don't understand anything about the other role you don't play." So, to me, it's the opinions of players who play both roles, should Worth listening to".
You have to understand first that camping and tunneling are not against the rules of the game. This is a pvp game. 4vs1. 16perks vs 4perks. The killer must do whatever it takes to win (kill) and the enemy. To survive, you must do everything to escape.
No killer wants camping or tunneling, it not fun. but if they don't, they will lose because of the survivors with friends and gen-rush. Well, don't fix the generator too quickly. if you don't need camping or tunneling.
But I don't argue because there really are people who like toxic things like camping or tunneling. Every society and every online game. There are both good people and bad people.
1) The meter system is already good. But the problem is, the reason the meter tube doesn't move any more is because if there are other survivors within a 16 meter radius and they refuse to help you get off the hook, the meter tube won't work.
The meter system is already good. But what should be fixed is "Dev should remove survivors waiting to help within 16 meters and the meter tube doesn't work, out of this system" or "Increase the killer's camping distance from 16 meters to 24 meters to make the meter tube work"
2) The fact that you expressed an opinion like this. I would like to ask you, “Survivors now have perks that help repair generators faster. Is this still not enough?"
While almost every killer perk has received a lot of nerfs, such as Pop Goes the Weasel, Call of Brine, Eruption, Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, Hex: Ruin, and Thanatophobia. These perks were once good. But now they have been nerfed to standard level.
Survivors' perks include Resilience, DeJa'Vu, Prove Thyself, Overzealous, Stake Out, Hyperfocus, Friendly Competition, Potential Energy, Deadline, Fast Track. And these perks were rarely nerfed. Survivors have many perks that speed up generator repairs In case you don't know. And it received very few nerfs. And I haven't even mentioned Toolboxes and red add-ons: Brand New Part.
3) In case you forgot something.
There is an extremely unbalanced map for killers like GIDEON MEAT PLANT (map of the pig). The map has a lot of pallets and are next to each other less than 10 meters away. There are a lot of windows and they are next to each other. A map that is a nightmare for a killer who has to chase normally. This map almost guarantees victory for the survivor. There are only 3 killers that can deal with this map: The Knight, The Nurse, and The Blight. The rest is a nightmare for killers.
Red forest or RPD maps do not need to be updated. About the size of the map. that should be adjusted is The location of the generator it random spawn in map. Because in the past, the Red Forest was so large that it took a long time for killers to find survivors. and difficult to control the zone. The RPD part is for me. It's an okay size.
Before you think of an idea You also have to consider that "this game has 2 roles" and if you only play one role and don't have any understanding of the other role. you should "Let's try playing another role and understand it."
This is one of the reasons why survivor main and killer main always have violent arguments and debates. Because neither side understands the difficulties that each side must encounter. So the most neutral person for me is "a player who plays both survivor and killer".
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First, let me say I also play both roles, and I play Killer without perks or addons. Thus far, I've played 100 games of 6 different killers (82 games into a seventh). I sitll win. So I play both sides, and I can quantify (I keep my stats, stream and post my vids on YouTube) just how dominant the simple strategy of camping and tunneling are. Add perks to that, and Survivors dont' have a chance. Camping and tunneling are useful because of gen speed, which is why my final suggestion would make gens a base of 120 seconds (currently 94 seconds). This combined with the hook teleport allows you to pressure gens and snowball more effectively. How easy do you want Killer to be?
Why assume I don't play both roles? I do consider myself a survivor main, but if I can play and win consistently as killer (58% kill rate and 51% win rate) without perks and addons, I feel like I have evidence (statistical and video evidence) that I know what I'm talking about rather than assumptions about how much I play one side (or even if) I play both.
I'd be willing to test your first idea regarding the meter, but it still doesn't address tunneling. Why not develop a mechanic that actually allows the Killer to immediately snowball and pressure gens? That's why I suggest teleporting the killer to the most progressed gen. If you argue camping is necessary to counter gen speed, doesn't 1 (increasing gen speed another thirty seconds) and 2 (making it easier to pressure survivors and use all those gen kick perks most effectivey) address that issue and remove that requirement?
You point out all the gen perks Survivors have, but you act as if the Killer perks are irrelevant. Again, I remeind you: I play without perks or addons. I play gen rushers. Sure, 1 out of 5 or even 2 out of 7 games, I get worked, but those are the exceptions and not the rule. "Well your MMR must be low" according to DBDs stats, my kill rate falls right at the game average (58%).
Regarding your second point: I already suggested gen speed be increaed a full 30 seconds. But even if I didn't, you act like the Survivor perks are insta gens. Note there are 7 perks (including Weaving Spiders) that have gen bonus. All but two (deja and quick gambit) have requirements that need to be fulfilled. If 4 survivors bring gen speed and tool boxes. Sure if 4 survivors bring 4 BNPs and have Prove, they can do 1 gen fast, but it's only one gen. Most of those perks require wasting time or survivors to gang up (which is inefficent). Deja and maybe hyperfocus together are the most efficeint; however, Killers have 1 perk that literally makes it impossible to do a gen (grim embrace). Yes, it requires a hook, but if you can't catch and hook a survivor in 120 seconds (based on my recommended increase), you have skill issue, not a blance issue. Also, Pop, pain res and eruption all three remove 65% of a gen, meaning you can basically shut of one gen four times, forcing survivors to basically do nine gens instead of five because you're cancelling out 65% of progress four times.
So again, help me understand how terrible it woudl be for killers to have 30 more seconds to build momentum while also being able to pressure and kick gens immediately?
My third point was to fix maps. Why are you pointing out maps are broken? I already agreed they are and must be balanced. I dont' understand. I think all maps shoudl be balanced consistently so that the map in and of itself doesn't determine whether the Killer or Survivors win. Pick your maps. For every Erie of Crows, there's a Midwitch. They ahve the same issues.
So my arguments aren't violent, and they're not based on inexperience. They're based on data and context. My plan would make it easeier for a Killer to win (not harder), while making the actual gameplay more fun. The only difference is Survivors woudl have to earn their escapes by looping instead of just running from a gen into the deep part of the map. Why is that such a bad thing? Are you sure you read the propasal? Did you not see the standard increase in gen time to accoutn for the issues? Did you not see the data I provided. Again, most of the games I can keep gens from being completed for 500 or more seconds, I win, and if gen speeds get increased to 120 seconds, the fastest the gens can be completed (base kit assuming a Killer can't get a single down in 120 seconds), would be longer than the current world record with 4 of the best players in the world (so hardert).
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I play both roles. I stream and post my vids on YouTube. I'm currently playing 100 games of every killer without perks or addons. After 600 games accross 6 kilers, I have a 58% kill rate (the DBD average for all killers (most of whom probably use perks). I havea 51% win rate. I'm 82 games into a 7th killer. I based my suggestions on the results of this particular expirement. If I can win consistently without perks or addons, I probably have some right to express these thoughts. Again, my kill rate is right in the average, so I can't be "Low MMR." At worst, I'm average MMR (wich is way more of a myth than you think if you watch Hens333, who plays with the best in the world and might be the best himself).
Did you miss the part where I increased the time it take gens some 30 seconds? Why would that make it harder? Wouldn't being able to pressure gens faster and use your gen kick perks (which despite being nerfed are still top 5 meta, so they can't be that bad) be more effective? If you claim camping is necessitated by gen speed, isn't making it harder to do gens and easier to pressure gens a reasonable solution?
All but two of those Survivor Perks you mention have at least some requirement, but there isn't a SINGLE Survivor perk that makes it impossible for a Killer to do his job. Meanwhile Kilers have Grim Embrace, which does in fact literally make it impossible for Survivors to advance their game goals. So it's not the one sided world you want to paint. Grim makes it potentially impossible to do gens for a total of 88 seconds. Wouldn't you freak out if there was a Survivor perk that blocked all hooks for 12 seconds each up to 100 seconds? I think Killers would lose their minds. On that note, if a thing (haste/preventing one side from being completely unable to progress their goals) is bad for one side, it's bad for both sides. If one side would freak out over a similar perk for the other side, it shouldn't be a thing. Also, Pop, Pain Res and Eruption can eliminate 65% of a gen up to 4 times, meaning Survivors would have to do 9 gens instead of 5 because they basically have to redo a gen four times. All that is just mathmatical fact, and I don't use those perks, and I still win more than I lose becuase I can camp and tunnel. I do so to prove those are real problems that need to be addressed by makeing chase and hooks and gameplay matter rather than 3 gens camping and tunneling. Is that really such a terrible thougth?
Then you talked about maps. I'm just lost there. I already said there are maps that are Surivovor sided and maps that are Killer sided. The fact that you dissagree with my examples and then provide different examples confuses me. The maps are imbalanced right? So lets balance them. Why is that a bad idea.
This idea makes it possible for a Killer to chase, hook and kill Survivors without having to feel the "need" for these nuclear options. Also, watch Hens' video on camping. If the best in the world say they don't need to do it (and they do), then what happens if they decide to? But this proposal makes it so those things (universally unfun for both sides) impossible, while removing any claim to need it. Gens take 33% longer, and you can hook now (not slug) because you know that hook will get you into your next chase and right to the gen you're trying to pressure. So hoenstly, just take another moment to think about all this and then provide me data (actual data). All you did was point out survivors have perks (as if Killers don't, when I dont' even need them), and that maps are unfair (which I agreed with). If you have data-driven reasons to say this idea woudln't work, I'm open to it. But are you open to considering a game where gens don't fly in 230 seconds and you can actually chase and down Survivors?
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NOTE: Two versions of my reply got posted in eedits. Sorry. The points are the same, and I can't seem to delete the redundant data.
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Hitting hard with the repeat reply to solidify the did you read part.
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Camping, tunneling, slugging and 3genning should not be impossible. These are strategic components of the killer role and should be treated as such.
You could disincentivise them and also add some more limitations to them so that they become more niche scenarios, only useful when done correctly, but completely deleting them from the game is not a good idea.
RPD isn't a guaranteed win for killer either. Just as old Haddonfield with old Balanced Landing wasn't a guaranteed win for survivors. One of the RPDs (East Wing) is indeed a favorable map for killers but with the amount of maps that are still heavily survivor sided, that is fine. There will never be a point when all maps will be perfectly balanced. So it's fine to have some maps that favor one side as long as there can still be a normal game. And RPD is not that one sided.
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Xernoton, I disagree, but I’m willing to hear you out. How would you disincentivize them? Why are they strategic components? Why are they necessary if not for gen speed? I’m open to hearing you out.
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