I thought I was going crazy
Why was the dusty noose changed to the shattered bottle offering?
I thought I was going crazy cause I knew the bottle wasn't the original offering and then I looked it up but the dusty noose was so much better why change it?
Comments
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Because of the link go self-harming and suicide. The Shattered Bottle is less problematic and controversial.
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Probably bc a bottle is more tasteful and better for branding. I like the bottle more, it looks cooler, and saloon bar fights fits better.
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Had something to do with the imagery of suicide and BHVR changed it for the better.
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I'm confused? The offering was a noose cause of the people hanging in the trial who were killed how does that imply self harming
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This is what the devs specifically said when they made the change so this isn't Akumakaji guessing or assuming, BHVR themselves stated they changed it to the shattered bottle due to the problematic nature of the noose (namely suicide).
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Because the noose could cause triggers in people who were/are suicidal and surely you don't need anyone to explain the link between a noose and suicide
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People were upset that they had to look at a noose.
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Daily reminder BHVR changed this offering icon but to this day have not changed the perk 'Hangman's Trick' despite that perk being even worse with it's icon due to it literally being somebody tying a noose
The perk was even updated semi-recently so, it just goes to show if you ask me
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I mean, a broken bottle makes sense for a Saloon map.
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The bottle never seemed any better in my eyes and this is coming from someone who has worked with teen girls with suicide on their agenda. They gravitated towards smuggling sharp items in -- Ive seen so many scars and blood along with it. Alternatively, I did have a new client smuggle in rope that I had the displeasure of confiscating when my shift started. Neither icon, simply my opinion, is a suitable change to deter images of suicide.
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The quote on the offering referenced using a noose for suicide ""Ask anyone trying to survive on this damn dust-choked land and they will tell you what a noose really is — a damn mercy.""
Honestly at first i didn't like the change because i felt like it was censorship. But overtime i think it's a good change. The old offering didn't really fit the map, the hung people on the map were executed not by suicide.
Here's the official response btw
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I thought this originally too but i think i understand why they made that change now and why hangman's trick icon wasn't changed.
The dusty noose offering for one didn't fit the map because the quote implies using it for suicide. But, the hung people on the map didn't kill themselves, they were executed.
So the offering wasn't relevant to the map, therefore it's an "unnecessary reminder".
At first i thought it was an indication BHVR was going to start removing all references to self-harm/suicide but i think they changed it more for the former reason. Since the other things in the game that referenced these things never got changed.
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But Peanits response says the icon might be an unnecessary reminder of those kind of thoughts, which is why it got changed
So my question is: How is an icon of somebody blatantly tying a noose any different?
I get that the in-game context is different but it's the exact same thing and if you ask me, it makes it look like they changed only the map offering icon because people specifically complained about it and didn't mention hangman's trick because it's a perk nobody uses or cares about
Plus, killers can put the hangman's trick perk icon on their hooks - Surely that would count as an unnecessary reminder to BHVR.
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Goodness, can we let it go? Next issue at hand! :)
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This just in, suppose to be horror game can't have a noose image!
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I've never understood the idea of catering to sensitives through censorship. I feel like a simple "This game has depictions of" warning when you launch the game would suffice. Even still, the horror genre is rooted in death so going into it things like this shouldn't be considered out of the ordinary.
If that is the case and its the visual of it that could cause the trigger then wouldn't the hanging men on both the Decimated Borgo and Grave of Glenvale potentially cause the same trigger?
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To call it censorship is misguided, censorship implies somebody made it and then an external force came in and censored it. In actuality, BHVR likely looked at some complaints regarding the icon and decided it's better to change it than to leave it be
The problem I have is with the lack of consistency, I.E Hangman's trick being left as is. I feel like if there was a genuine care about this issue, they wouldn't have forgotten about it but they did.
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I don't know, the broken glass isn't that innocuous either. I'll not draw a picture.
I would have imagined saloon doors would have been more appropriate in that regard.
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well, there´s a guy on the map.. like... doing it, next to a generator
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The previous map offering was in the game for a long while before it was changed. An external force doesn't have to come in and change it for it to be considered censorship. The reasoning behind it does. It was changed to address sensitivity triggers which is why I said a simple "this game has depictions of" warning would be all they really needed to do. The same argument could be used for other things in the game too, such as the dead animals you see on some maps in the game. A lot of things in the horror genre could easily trigger people with sensitivities by nature of what it revolves around. I think its pointless to try and reshape the art of horror to cater to sensitivities by removing them from it.
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If you create something and you (as the creator) are unsatisfied with it then go back and change it, that's not censorship at all.
It's not the same thing.
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The reason behind it is what matters. They can do what they want with their game, however we can criticize it. Changing something in a game to address potential sensitivities is censorship. They didn't do it because they thought the previous image didn't fit the map well.
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Yep. And if it was the visual of it that could spark sensitivity triggers then the context doesn't really matter. You very clearly see dead hanging men in this game and I don't think the implied context would remove the possibility of those triggers happening.
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Again that's not what censorship is
Creators can change their minds on their work, as long as the reasoning comes from them and not some external force like say, a ratings board or a publisher it's by definition not censorship. People changing their work with the benefit of hindsight is fine as long as it's not needless or unfounded.
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Caring about other people is good actually.
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This has nothing to do about caring about other people. If it did, horror entertainment wouldn't exist. Its riddled with things that could cause all kinds of sensitivity triggers.
It was needless. Thats the point I made.
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Sure you can argue it's a needless or pointless change
But that doesn't make it censorship.
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I remain unconvinced, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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You have no idea what you’re talking about.
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It could be argued that the "complaints" themselves were an act of forcing censorship. I.E. "cancelling" someone or something.
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Not necessarily, voicing your complaints is an integral part of improving something. If nobody ever complained nothing would ever improve imo
That being said I do understand what you mean and there are people out there who do try to misuse that to try to get things they simply don't like changed or removed etc. Was that the case here? I doubt it, I don't really remember any huge calls to have this changed - I imagine it was just something that got considered internally or something.
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How so if you don't mind elaborating? I've seen a lot of horror movies. They very often have depictions of things that could trigger people's sensitivities. Thats why movies and video games have content ratings on them, to inform the consumer of what the media they are about to view has in it.
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Complaints are not an act of censorship. Responding to them is (in the context of changing something for the sake of sensibilities not shared by all consumers). DBD is a video game made for entertainment. Its art. If the developers of horror genre of entertainment cared about this collectively then everything would be censored and done off screen. Even depictions of blood can trigger people.
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It’s funny how someone complaints about ‚unnecessary censorship‘ when the creators removed something they wanted to remove -possibly due to feedback from players- but at the same time they themselves have asked for something to be removed unnecessarily just to cater to their own preference despite knowing that the creators wanted it in the game.
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Its because I am able to discern the difference between art and activism.
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yeah right. You are the only person not biased at all.
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Probably because Hangman's Trick comes from the Saw franchise, which often talks about (or has a very clear sub-text) death and self-harm.
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On topic:
I think a big reason why this offering was changed compared to other icons and even map specific things like the gallows is that these are completely avoidable by a player while a map offering will be thrown into your face. Not sure if that was part of the reason for the devs but I think that would be reasonable. Also I have never even seen anyone asking for or even demanding this to be changed. Definitely haven’t seen any ‚activism‘ regarding this
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They went from a hanging with a noose to cutting with broken glass ....... How dumb.
Why not use, I dont know, Saloon Doors or a Cowboy Hat?
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This is actually a pretty good point, even though I don't think it should have been changed to begin with.
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Absolutely this. This was a decision 100% brought on by the devs themselves, because I didn't see any criticism about it anywhere. If there was an influence it must have been very down-low because I heard absolutely nothing regarding it.
But it's not the first time this has happened. The Legion's blighted cosmetic used to have a weapon called the "Suicide Blade". This was changed before it hit live IIRC to the "Separation Blade" for this exact same reason.
I'm not convinced changing it to a broken glass bottle was the best course of action but I absolutely can see their reasoning behind making this change and honestly don't mind it. There are so many bigger things to worry about imo.
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Not really. If we're being totally honest, the broken bottle just makes me think of cutting myself, rather than hanging myself. I really don't see a difference.
DISCLAIMER: I am not actually thinking of harming myself, but my point still stands.
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They changed it for the same reason they censored Chucky's swearing in his intro video.
They changed it for the same reason there is an extremely restrictive word filter on the website and in endgame chat.
They changed it for the same reason they changed it from "The Entity is Displeased..." to "The Entity Hungers..."
They made these changes to not hurt people's feelings...in a game where you horribly murder each other, and there are talks of the "power role" all the time. 🤢
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Coz no one uses hangman's trick like ever
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I do miss the old Icon.
When I see a Noose Knot, I first think of The Western aesthetic
When I see a Broken Bottle, I first think of The filthy streets of California cities
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