How would people feel about removing this from Pig
Seeing as BHVR clearly wants to diminish Pig's slowdown and buff her anti loop instead, how would people feel about removing her roar?
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I've not seen many saw movies, but does she do that in the movies? Its a pretty good bestial roar in game... is this accurate?
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I think it's there for a reason. But she could benefit greatly from it playing once the ambush has actually started, and not during the wind-up.
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I'd prefer they don't remove it. Often times, you'll have no idea which way she goes in a loop but the roar gives you at least a chance to attempt a mind game. Removing it would just leave you defenseless in many cases. Although I think it would be fair to push it a bit further behind, so that the Pig can charge their ambush a bit before the survivor is warned.
The only problem is that you couldn't snort at survivors anymore. So less boop the snoot moments.
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BHVR have no interest in changing her slowdown.
That said, I don't like the idea of removing the roar, it's a fairly inoffensive part of her kit. It gives the survivor a head's up, sure, but the survivors do deserve some kind of feedback to react to most of the time when it comes to killer powers. Maybe pushing it further back, as someone else said... but even then, it means the fun meme stuff becomes less funny.
I don't think it really needs any changes.
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I think that's fair, it would be more in line with Chucky
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The Pig's roar is a homage to SAW. Plus it sounds silly and I love it for that.
There could be an add-on that silences the roar, preferably as a purple one though.
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They are changing her slowdown though they have nerfed the RBT if the PTB changes go to live, I do see how entirely removing the roar could be bad however
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I would be okay with it being played later but not removing it entirely.
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In no movie has the Pig (Amanda or anyone else) attacked without roaring. But the truth is that the Pig simply stabs the victim with a stun syringe and takes the victim to the game's arena to choose between life or death.
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Nice idea
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I'd rather they buff the move speed more. I'm fine with her having an indicator when she attacks, but the power is still far too slow down to effectively get the jump on people. A 32 meter TR pairs awfully with Ambush since often times survs can hear her turn it off and prepare for her arrival, y'know, like literally the exact thing a stealth power is supposed to stop from happening.
They could change her TR back to 28 meters, but there isn't a snowball's chance in hell they'd make a decision like that. I'd just settle for moving as fast as a survivor so you can actually get to them quickly to ambush.
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Honestly roar should be moved. But it's iconic and part of her personality. So maybe make her roar when she hit survivor or miss?
Yeah, that would make her anti-loop a bit better.
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The PTB changes don't affect the slowdown the RBTs give, they just give survivors more leeway to take suboptimal pathing or complete a heal before going for their searches. They still have to search the same amount of boxes, those searches still take the same amount of time, the boxes aren't any closer together, and they still don't get to do generators safely before searching. Nothing about the slowdown has changed.
Still, buffing her antiloop and stealth slightly more than the PTB could be workable, if you're careful. In my experience the antiloop changes are more impactful than some would give them credit for, but in fairness, they're still not ideal.
Rather than removing the roar, I'd look at letting her move faster while she's crouched. I don't understand why the Pig has to move slower than a running survivor at all while she's crouched, considering she has to either stand up and lose distance or charge her Ambush and lose distance if she wants to actually attack.
Letting her move faster would let her get into position for a stealth play a little sooner, that'd be nice.
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They should just buff her ambush charge speed and then the roar would not matter. Currently, the roar hurts you because it takes so long for ambush to actually start. This is best seen with the addon Workshop Grease. that addon should be basekit and changed because the difference with that add on is night and day. For reference, it take .75 seconds to charge ambush normally <During this time pig has almost no movement speed and has her roar play at the start of charging and a jumpscare stinger plays too>. With the addon, the charge time is around .4 seconds and is much harder to react and dodge too.
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halfway into it that way you can spam roar without attacking people while getting boops
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Yea excited for the ambush buff it just needed a little bit extra, and that's what seems to be getting added. It needed just a bit more lunge to it.
Workshop grease is clearly not used by many posters here saying the ambush isnt fast enough, it is with workshop grease. And crouch speed with medical file will put you above survivor movement speed as well (4.18 m/s) after the buff.
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Should you be forced to use an addon to make her crouch and ambush viable though?
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I think i would have agreed with you before on this, but at this point with the increased duration and crouch speed now, the "leave the loop" playstyle is much weaker, and removing the roar just removes that option from survivors entirely. I think it should stay now. If they hadn't done what they did already, i would say it should start when she actually starts ambushing rather than charging it. But definitely a 1 or the other type situation and not both.
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It would improve her stealth...
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Yes!!! That Killer is terrifying 😳
Please remove the roar!!!
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I don’t really see any of the arguments for keeping it honestly.
She has one of the worst chase powers in the game and adding a clear tell to when she uses it feels pretty backhanded. 90% of people just leave the loop when she crouches anyways.
I 100% think it should be removed.
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I'd like to test out that roar maybe moved to the moment she uncrouches completely, and see what that does for her.
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They could make her anti loop the best one in the game and I’d still rather have her current version. We already have a dozen other killers with an anti loop, we don’t need another. Her macro play with traps is what made her unique and fun. Better anti loop isn’t making her more fun than what we’re losing, regardless of how good it is.
In a completely isolated conversation about the roar though, yes, the roar playing so early is a huge part of what makes it weak. Make it after the charge is complete.
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Ambush is already viable without the addons or PTB its just you can only use it in certain places. PTB you could use it on longer pallet loops or vaults.
The addons just make it a lot smoother.
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Pigs slowdown is exactly the same, the only thing changed is her lethality... It takes exactly the same amount of time to get rid of a hat...
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Instead of Amanda's Secret, for example.
No one uses that one anyway.
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Personally I'd say just move the roar to when she starts the ambush, rather than during the charge-up time. It gives people less time to react that way, without removing it entirely.
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They should just make the charge up time shorter and it wouldn‘t be that big of a problem anymore or make the roar sound play later.
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The Slowdown is unchanged. Even if the timer increased, the Survivor still has to do the Boxes at some point and this did not change at all. It takes the same amount of time and the same amount of tries.
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I dont really think that this is needed. Her changes on the PTB are solid and removing the roar while her Dash is stronger does not really seem good to me.
I would rather let her move 4,0 m/s while crouched. This would make her a bit better to play when crouched, but would not drastically change her Anti-Loop, because she still has to charge her dash and she also still needs to crouch and uncrouch.
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Regarding the ambush change... I'd prefer it be triggered at roughly 60~70% of her ambush charge. If used in conjunction with an ambush charge speed buff, would be quite nice.
Though the loss of the memes is the big sad.
Indeed. Everyone loves dash killers though, so her dash is where people want all the buffs to go, and unfortunately anything that doesn't feed into the basic gameplay loop must be nerfed to floor. I am waiting to see what BHVR will do, I am quietly optimistic they've got this.... but the way a big portion of the community is pushing her concerns me.
My biggest worry for Pig is her ambush is effectively a long lunge. It doesn't take a lot of skill to use beyond knowing the tiles and timing when to use it. It is very easy to control, so it's balance is the fact it can be countered by dropping pallets and holding W away from tiles. This strategy is a little too good in live currently... so the buffs are welcome, but pushing too far this way is a mistake to my mind.
Other killers with dashes, like Wesker, Chucky, Oni, Hillbilly, Blight, Nurse are all offset by the fact that using their dash requires precision and takes some skill in of itself to aim... Pig's dash does not do this, which is why it is weak. A strong Pig dash would be more like a 4.6m/s Spirit who can see... if it becomes a really good dash that wins most exchanges, it'll become cheap with how easy it would be to use, and that's what people will complain about next. Pig will become a no skill, cheap anti loop killer the way she is being pushed, and hated just like Skull Merchant, Artist and Knight because of the "no skill" anti loop they possess.
We're killing her head trap macro gameplay, to make her a dash killer.... and she'll always teeter on being too weak to rival any strong anti-loop killers and need her slowdown to artificially prop up her weak anti-loop, or it'll be too strong for loops, and the Pig will be a hated cheap anti-loop killer.
If worst comes to worst, I guess there is always Trapper and Hag if people want to play a more tactical killer. Finding quirky little trap spots for Trapper and maintaining your web on Hag is quite fun.
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Pig mains weeping at the prospect of losing Roar spam while non-Pig mains want to marginally improve Ambush only at top MMR so that they will occasionally play Pig. 😢
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My biggest worry for Pig is her ambush is effectively a long lunge. It doesn't take a lot of skill to use beyond knowing the tiles and timing when to use it. It is very easy to control.
so all m1 killer take no skill to play?
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You make them able to wind up and charge at the speed of Spirit without being blind whenever they like, then yes.
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she has similar speed as spirit, longer wind-up because of crouch+charge is 1.75 vs 1.5 but she has workshop grease to reduce it to 0.4+1 second and way less duration then spirit. Spirt's phase walk is 5 second. Pig dash is 2.25. If pig had a little bit more duration and workshop charge base-kit, pig would be adequate chase killer at base-kit.
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As a Pig main and huge fan of the movies, I say no. Her roar is going to be the only lore accurate thing she has left if these changes go through.
Though as others have said, maybe a rework of Amanda's Secret to remove the roar would be acceptable. Actually give it a use for those that want it.
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