What do you think about the new Invocation?

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C3Tooth
C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,139
edited March 7 in General Discussions

I think the perk can not be buffed further, given its most possibility to give you 7 BNP. But the gameplay is not the same on paper.

  • Use it early game: 0 Gen done. David in chase. Vitto, Renato and you do are free

Its still better to have 3 survivors on 3 different Gens, than to have 1 of them sits in the basement. And being Broken for the rest of the match from the beginning is a huge risk.


  • Use it mid game: 2-3 Gens done. David, Vitto, Renato taking heat.

When the gameplay become a loop of 1 in chase - 1 on hook - 1 go unhook. Spend 2min in basement while other 3 keep taking the heat is a quick downfall to the team.


  • Use it late game: 4 Gens done. Possible one of the team dies (David) at least.

Now to think, why would anyone spend 120sec to exchange permanent 30sec that split into 3 different Gens? And you can not leave Vitto on hook while Renato in chase.


Do you think this perk will be popular? Or may be they will buff the perk further to make people buying Sable then hard nerf after and remove the Invocation concept out of existence like Boon and Teamwork?

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Comments

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,775
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    so bnp perk?

    So weaving spiders is just pre 6.1.0 in a perk? lol

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 501
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    It's the most logical buff for the perk without having to completely rework it. It's not going to meta but it's not as useless as it was originally. Still requires sitting in the basement and doing nothing for two minutes though.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
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    I am curious if it is working with No Mither. If it does, then it will be fairly decent combo. High risk but high reward.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,165
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    I don't think it'll be popular, but I do think it's now usable and has a clear niche.

    It'll be good in coordinated teams, and honestly, smart use of it even in solo queue should be possible. It's definitely not going to be ultra-strong, but it's a nice little starter for this new mechanic; Scourge Hooks were introduced with a weak perk too, and we can see how good that mechanic ended up being.

    I think its main strength is going to be countering very territorial killers. If they aren't roaming around to generate pressure, and especially if they're trying to 3-gen, getting gen progress without needing to sit on gens where you might be more vulnerable is definitely viable.

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 472
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    Probably, there was nothing about being healthy or not Broken for it to work.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 4,853
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    I don't think it will be popular but I'm impressed they listened to and took on board the feedback. That's what stood out to me most in the notes. Also nice that Strength in Shadows got buffed. I honestly thought it was good as was, so that was nice and I'll definitely give it a whirl next week. Wicked having a benefit outside of basement is good too.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
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    I am gonna test it myself whenever chapter drops. Hopefully it does.

    Sure, killer will target me for this but at least they won't know about the other perk. They will just think i am crazy survivor who likes the challange.

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 472
    edited March 7
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    I hope so too. No mither is the only perk that could work in sync with it, so it would be a real waste if it didn't

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,139
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    How does No mither helps on Invocation? With Resilience?

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 3,235
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    Pretty sure it does.

    I'm probably gonna quickly check the basement a minute or two into the trial when I see No Mither though LOL.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
    edited March 7
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    I don’t see it becoming popular. I believe the devs will abandon the concept of Invocations as they have Teamwork perks and Boons (despite them trying to make boons a thing again with Alan Wake. Didn’t work).

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
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    That's why i will do mid game bestie where killer is the strongest. Fight me 😉

    Yeah pretty much. I am also planning to use Iron Will too which removes all of your voice with No Mither.

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 472
    edited March 7
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    A meme build for people who would like to enjoy the new perk:

    Invocation: WS - No Mither - Resilience - Wicked

    Enjoy a silly build.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 233
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    Don't think it's going to be meta or anything. It still a niche perk that requires a significant time sink. As a killer main my only concern is it stacking with BNPs but we see, I doubt it be that impactful.

    That said I still not a huge fan of this just because it involves basement. Now I feel I'm going to have to visit basement few times in a match and I honestly hate basement as a mechanic in the game. I don't like taking the time to go to basement and I hate hooking in basement. Basement just feels like a time waster to me and I like to ignore it all together as killer. Now I'm going to have to at least go there once in while and I'm not a fan of that.

    Overall all im mostly okay with this perk but I don't hate the effect it's going to have on my mindset.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 233
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    Hahaha no thanks. I don't care if this perk becomes meta, you never going to make me use that garbage perk. I rather run only 3 perks than have that perk in any of my builds.

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 472
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    Ok, you do you.

    I'll maybe put it in my load out, as it also counters Sable's better perk, Strength in Shadows.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 233
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    More power to you than. I just don't have the room for it in my builds. I would have to give up a chase perk or regression perk for it. On top of that I have to constantly be looking towards basement to even see the aura. I'm pretty sure it doesn't give a notification when someone enters basement right? It just shows you their aura for 6 secs and that it. I just know I used it once on huntress to get her adept when I started playing two years ago and I found it one of the completely useless perks in the game for killer, excluding insidious.

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 472
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    I truly hope that only changes that this perk will recieve from now onward will be buffs or none at all.

    I love the Invocation concept and I'm glad that BHVR heard us. 15 charges would be better tho.

    Now BHVR, please make Dark Theory an Invocation and give it a 3% speed increase instead of 2. People will love that one.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,574
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    It does, I did this on the PTB. Since you're already broken from the start of the match, getting broken again from the invocation basically does nothing.

  • Hermit
    Hermit Member Posts: 381
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    I expect noone will use it after the first two weeks, maybe some full SWF groups will get some use out of it but not solos.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,139
    edited March 7
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    I don't think it would be very good in that case. The killer would suspect you are running the perk because they will know you have no mither. So they'll likely check the basement, and if you are injured in the back of the basement you are done.

  • Xyvielia
    Xyvielia Member Posts: 2,415
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    Weaving Spiders is like individually going into the trial with 3 perks and handing the Killer a 3/4K.

    Bringing this perk in SoloQ is a waste of time.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,216
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    Please don't use it.

    Ever.

  • Bafugaboo
    Bafugaboo Member Posts: 402
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    Use it every time. (Definitely not a killer based thought)

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,287
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    Honestly? I can see it being useful if used correctly. Permanently reducing gen times is pretty strong, but survivors shouldn't just rush into it or the killer will get them very easily.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,083
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    I won’t be happy until they either remove the permanent Broken status and make it time based or make the user lose a hook stage (maybe too much, but I’d personally give up a hook stage rather than be permanently injured for the rest of the match and tunneled out).

  • Dustin
    Dustin Member Posts: 2,251
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    I'm looking forward to more perks of this type but I feel there's not too many strong effects you can give a survivor in exchange for a health state. I can't imagine many perks of this type existing past maybe a couple.

  • CursedPerson
    CursedPerson Member Posts: 62
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    It needs to be buffed the downsides significantly outway the gen progress. This perk is still dead on arrival. The numbers alone make it a net negative 50-70 second time investment depending on how you look at it (total gens vs. required gens). On top of that a permanently broken member is most likely a death sentence to most teams

  • Mew
    Mew Member Posts: 1,828
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    cool idea, terrible execution

    even if the perk was good nobody wants to spend 2 minutes holding m1 in the basement

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,248
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    I don't think it will be it worth it even after the buff. It's too much time versus only five gens are needed to escape; not seven so those two gens affected don't provide a benefit.

    Being Broken is a super hefty downside so not only is there a time loss but there's also the time the Killer gains when downing you as instead of being in chase because it's harder to escape while Broken.

    And, if you get caught, you're in the most dangerous spot to be hooked.

    If I were to break a 3 gen Potential Energy seems a lot more useful.

    Against Plague and Legion it would be more useful as I'll be down a health state most of the match anyway but since you have no idea who you're going to get that's not a bet to really take. On the other hand, if you get Trapper you're completely shafted and a Bubba or Huntress who proxy camps you means you're probably shafted as well.

    On the other hand, if I'm playing Dredge with Darkness Revealed (or any Killer with Darkness Revealed) please feel free to ignore everything I wrote and try it. Just please don't do it if I'm playing survivor.

  • WorthlessBeing
    WorthlessBeing Member Posts: 377
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    Tried it in the PTB because I thought "Well if I'm going to be broken all game might as well make the best of it". It does.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,022
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    the rewarding is not enough for the wind-up & broken negative. so either reward need to be greater or drawbacks need to be less.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,139
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    I do think 1 hook stage is better than Broken. But may be it doesnt instant kill 2 hook stage survivors after finish the pray. Perhaps survivors with 2 hook stage already is better to do the praying than doing Gen.

  • Spirit_IsTheBest
    Spirit_IsTheBest Member Posts: 726
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    I think the broken status should be like 90 seconds instead of for the rest of the trial.

    Otherwise it’s pretty niche but does have its uses, in like 3-Gen situations.

  • Spirit_IsTheBest
    Spirit_IsTheBest Member Posts: 726
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    That works as well, I feel that it being permanent makes it so overwhelming to use since your wasting 2 minutes in the basement.

  • sinkra
    sinkra Member Posts: 287
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    It's probably going to used more to troll than actual benefit.

  • MrPenguin
    MrPenguin Member Posts: 2,366
    edited March 8
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    I mean, it's better so that's something.

    it might be a SWF perk, but even that seems unlikely imo. It still seems underwhelming.

    Post edited by MrPenguin on
  • Spirit_IsTheBest
    Spirit_IsTheBest Member Posts: 726
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    I can see it only working in a SWF as well like you said, with a good team I can see it being useful, but in solo queue I’m unsure if it will be as good.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,083
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    They can make the death hook person that performs this permabroken and non-death hook lose a hook stage.

    As it is now, tool boxes with bnp are much better.

  • Alice_pbg
    Alice_pbg Member Posts: 6,552
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    still think it's too gimmicky for regular play.


    but I think some people will be able to make it work on specific builds. and by work I mean it will technically do it's function but the effectiveness is debatable