Did they just nerf Weaving Spiders???
It's cool that they're making it reduce the required charges instead of apply progression that can be removed, but people were already complaining about how the time it takes isn't worth it at all.
Why reduce the amount of charges it gives? You only get 70 seconds of generator repair time (at most) out of 120 seconds of performing the ritual. You lose over half a gen of time now in the best case scenario AND you're injured for the rest of the trial.
It needed to apply more charges, not less. This change makes less than no sense. Make it reduce the required charges of generators by 15 please.
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Lol what? That's a huge buff.
Now that perk is kinda scary tbh. Once people stop counting on it (few weeks after chapter hype ended), it might be legit good perk.
You think giving EVERY SINGLE gen on the map brand new part is like nothing? What...
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I fully expect to see this perk get revamped in the future. BHVR for better or worse is being extremely overly cautious with this perk.
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They nerfed the charges granted from 105 to 70. That's a pretty significant nerf to the amount of charges it provides. Keep in mind you're broken for the rest of the trial.
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Oh no! Let me kick that gen rly quick with my regression perks oh wow it's gone and now that person is broken for the rest of the game hell yea.
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I mean if you want to completely glance over how I think it's cool that they're making the progress not regressable then sure, knock yourself out. Doesn't take away from the fact you're basically repairing at 60% speed in a risky area for two minutes and having to be broken for the rest of the trial anyway.
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I mean, while the Perk got better, "kinda scary" is 100% the wrong thing to say about it. It is still garbage, but at least a little bit better garbage.
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No i think the perk is better for this change.
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I don't think it's really that much better considering the charge nerf. It's less time efficient than Potential Energy now I'm pretty sure.
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I think the progress would be too easy to remove. With 5% base gen kick now, and if the killer had surge they would probably just counter it automatically.
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The perk is still terrible.
2 mins + broken for the rest of the trial is still not worth it.
Also imagine being interrupted while you're like 15 seconds away from finishing the invocation. You've wasted a lot of time unnecessarily.
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Yeah, it not being able to be regressed anymore is a good buff. I just think it doesn't warrant a reduction in charges granted. A big point of complaint about the perk was that it didn't give enough for the time spent, and they've made it give less charges now.
It should permanently reduce the required charges of all generators by 15 instead of 10.
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The broken-all-trial part and the fact it's now practically speaking 50 seconds worth of progress you benefit from, for 2 minutes of survivor time, makes the perk still extremely underwhelming, even if that 50 seconds now can't be reverted. It'll likely be even less than that, because ideally your teammates will be doing gens while you invoke, so there will likely be a gen or more done by the time the invocation finishes.
I'm torn between running it to make the point, and not running it because it's a dead perk slot and I don't want to ruin the game for pub teammates.
IMO they need to increase the number of charges back up to 15. Alternatively, or additionally, they should add a feature where for every gen that was completed before the invocation finished, an additional few charges are removed on the remaining gens, so you don't feel forced into invoking early.
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I disagree that it's a nerf. This is a buff. Making it permanent like a BNP makes it a lot better and the shift to 10 charges was warranted because of that imo. It's like having pre-6.1 generators again, that's huge.
On the PTB it only took one generator kick from the killer to just instantly remove 5% and then you were pretty much right back to 10 charges anyway, if not less than that if the regression wasn't stopped quickly.
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How is it a nerf? They’re slapping on more charges to all gens. Brand new part to every gen. I run books usually so I am making a whole magic build hehe
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It's less charges overall. 10 per gen instead of 15.
They buffed it and nerfed it, but I think the nerf will hurt it a lot.
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the fact that they felt that 15 charges taken off gens would have been too good for sitting in basement for 2 entire minutes and crippling yourself for the entire remaining trial is baffling
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10 per gen that, if achieved, the Killer can't really do anything about because it's locked in, vs the 15 per gen they could potentially just regress off with a kick or gen perk.
I like the change myself. Not sure if it's worth risking a lengthy Broken period, but it's a bit more viable this way, nonetheless.
Me own idea had been spread all the potential charges (105) over the currently incomplete gens, making it more powerful the later it's used.
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Yeah, I know, like I've said multiple times before I like that change too.
Not sure if it warrants a counternerf though.
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yes it’s less but it’s a permanent 10 charges on a gen bringing it to 80. It’s permanent! That’s huge! That doesn’t include if people use perks and toolboxes/bnp etc
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The number did go down, but the smaller number is stronger than the bigger number in this case.
What I think is more of a fair downside to criticise is permanent Broken. A trade of "BNP on every gen in exchange for a health state and a timesink" is perfectly reasonable, but I think the health state could fairly be on a timer instead of permanent.
But, to more concretely answer the question in the original post: No, they did not just nerf Weaving Spiders, they buffed it. If they kept the number the same, it would've been stronger than a BNP, on every gen instead of one. Part of the tradeoff is that you don't get to exceed the item you're replacing, but you do get to use it on every gen at once.
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I know... The repair time is still less efficient than Potential Energy now, though.
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I don't understand how people are calling this a buff. It's a rework on the mechanics. With an additional nerf -5% progress. Overall it's a nerf. I don't understand in what universe this is remotely viable or fun. Your spending 2 minutes IN THE BASEMENT to become broken for a smidge of progress. That's the easiest way to get tunnelled out of the game by any killer with movement speed. Your net negative 70 seconds on gens since you can only complete 5 gens anyway. Having another teammate constantly injured increases killer pressure since a lot of the time you need a healthy survivor to go for a hook save.
It's a cool idea for a perk that can still be salvaged but the numbers and downsides are so far out of touch with reality.
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Consider how strong a Brand New Part addon is. Apply that to every generator.
That's why this is a buff, permanently reducing the number of charges a gen needs before completion both shortens the repair time and makes regression comparatively weaker. You can think of it as making a generator incapable of being regressed down further than ten charges. Permanent charge reduction is way stronger than those charges being added normally, even when the number is lower.
The permanent Broken is a big tradeoff, and one I'd personally like to see adjusted, but up to two minutes in the basement for BNPs on every gen on the map isn't a joke. It'll be situational and dependent on some factors, as well as being massively more viable with at least one friend on comms versus complete solo queue, but it's definitely a buff from where it was.
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Still a noobtrap. Devs just showed again that they have no clue whats good or bad in their game. Like, do they really thought they can fool everyone?
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90% of the reason that BNP is so good is because you can apply it instantly.
Imagine if, in order to use a BNP, you first had to find a chest, open it, and then rummage through it again in order to use the BNP - essentially 2 full chest searches in order to use your BNP, and it simply sits as dead weight in your hands until you do that.
That version of BNP would still be more efficient than this perk, even before the fact that the killer can now realize where you are and that you'll be broken for the rest of the game
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it reverts gen nerf from 6.1.0 making every gen 80 seconds. that's pretty sizable. the issue is drawbacks. 2 minute to use and broken. if one of these were changed then the perk would be very common. for example if broken was not perma but only lasted 90 seconds or if invocation was 100 seconds.
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Sure?
None of that changes that going from regressable charges to a BNP effect is absolutely a buff, idk what this has to do with anything here.
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Currently it reduces the time it takes to repair gens active by 10s each once you finish the ritual. I think its a good starting point for the effect and ritual perks in general wait and see if it needs buffs from there but permanent progress means its at least a choice now to use it
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I'm just saying it's still mega bad
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I was responding to someone who asked why people keep calling it a buff. So, I was laying out why it's a buff.
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And I think the perk is still nigh unplayable, which is why I was explaining why simply using the BNP analogy falls short for me
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...But my argument was about it being a buff. Not whether it's stronger than a BNP. The fact that it works like a BNP makes it stronger than its previous version.
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yeah i guess my point was only tangentially related in that we both mentioned the same addon but there wasn't much else there, my bad
my point still stands though, just not directly related to yours
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This perk is so bad that it's basically a perk for the killer. There's no way the devs don't realize this. They're making new survivor perks terrible on purpose. Only killers get to have good things these days.
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This perk, even before it's buff, is not a "Survivor" perk, it's a SWF perk.
SWF teams can use this global BNP to make 3-gens much easier to break or simply send someone (ideally either their weakest link or best looper) on death hook to use it, not like being in the open while on 2nd hook isn't a big "tunnel me" sign these days anyway. Going out of their way to check basement to kill that Survivor will give lots of time to teammates anyway.
Adding to that the "Anti-3-gen system" and it further puts pressure on weaker/M1 Killers to defend gens and shortens the window to stop progress (now a limited thing).
The perk will be a literal handicap in SoloQ but can be actually good in a coordinated SWF due to the Survivors being able to use the "global BNP" optimally.
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