Skull Merchant, again

vBlossom_
vBlossom_ Member Posts: 387

Let's see.

Other killers with Undetectable:

  • Myers: loud breathing sounds, loud footsteps
  • Ghostface: loud footsteps
  • Wraith: loud growling sounds, even when cloaked
  • Pig: when you want to hurt someone, you have to ambush them with loud sound or de-crouch
  • Skull merchant:

Literally no downside, currently it's the best killer that has Undetectable in basekit.

Other killers that can apply effects to players via M2:

  • Plague: need to charge her ability that slows her down while charging, easily clense-able.
  • Nightmare: need to wake up, not so hostile effect btw, easy to wake up via missing skillcheck, via clock or by waking up other survivor
  • Doctor: need to charge his ability that slows him down drastically, can snap out of it immediately after 3 lvl of madness.
  • Clown: short-range killer, not really hostile effect
  • Legion: not-so-optimal-power, you just have to mend, that's it, he can't put you down in power unless met certain circumstances.
  • Nemesis: fully cure-able via vaccine
  • Wesker: same as Nemesis
  • Singularity: Power can be mitigated when using EMP.
  • Skull merchant:

No slowdown while applying drones, even has undetectable effect:

Can damage survivors just by placing drones basically anywhere:

Survivors eventually receive hindered and are shown to the killer:

The more survivors are affected, the faster she is:

You can disable Drone (one of six that she has) but only for 45 seconds, yet gens take 90 seconds and she has no downside to just placing it again:

And creme de la creme:

Easy killer with strong basekit and absolutely no viable downsides at all.

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Comments

  • PreorderBonus
    PreorderBonus Member Posts: 250

    Stealth drones still show their AoE on the ground, lol. You can't miss them. And even on the off chance a stealth drone catches you off guard, its first scan won't hurt you, it'll just activate, giving you plenty of time to either 1) move away or 2) disable it. Heck, if it's too much for you, you can literally stand still while you figure out what to do, and the drone won't scan you because it doesn't work against idle survivors.

    Again, getting injured by a drone outside of a chase is just a skill issue.

  • Chocolate_Cosmos
    Chocolate_Cosmos Member Posts: 5,735

    This won't boost the process. You think they allready don't know people have problems with her?

    Why people don't spam daily how Freddy is the most forgotten killer and top weakest at the same time and devs ignore him for years to come?

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,455

    So she has a power what is your point? A 70% kill rate where so many survivors hook suicide compare to Pigs 63% where very few give up..I mean most would say Skullie is not op or even strong probably around mid tier. So why complain about her stealth and such if she is not op? The problem is survivors not wanting to play against her, refusing to learn counterplay etc. BHVR could make her the weakest killer in the game and people would still refuse to play against her. So strength is not the problem.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669

    My favorite part of this reply is when you lie about Plague's effectiveness!

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    edited March 9

    We do if we want change, you think one post about Buckle Up + For The People would sort that issue out? There's been numerous and nothing has been done.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521
  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669

    I play as Plague from time to time. She's nothing against a SWF.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564

    Actually it will.

    People are forgetting but hot topics are always getting attention by devs because they can't ignore what playerbase are complaining about.

    Freddy however, thankfully he is gonna get rework. If it was small changes, we would get it with any update. But taking that long time just means Freddy and Myers will get major updates which is good. Both killers deserves good love.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521

    Because you definitely know both my MMR and yours while telling me people cleanse against me when I solely talked about green vom.

    Very logical and normal argument being put forth.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669

    Yes and you definitely know that I'm not a very good Plague. I'm simply playing your own game so there you go.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521

    I main Plague, you play Plague "from time to time", this doesn't work the way you think it does lol.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    edited March 9

    Doesn't mean I don't see her weaknesses, nor does it mean I don't play against her and win most of the time. You maining her only makes you more biased if you want to go down that route.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521

    You're talking about a killer that is one of the most played in tournaments a setting where they mostly restrict the thing she's good against (healing) and how she's bad against SWFs, I'm very sure you have no idea what you're talking about.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    A killer that sits on 70% killrate because they are so strong is a problem. A killer that sits on 70% because people kill themselve on the hook is a disaster.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,787

    Problem is a lot of survivors do this because they think she's the same as her old version, don't care either way, or follow the hivemind mentality instead of learning how to counter a killer.

    Me personally, I'm horrible against Wraiths and can never do the counters right because they're always one step ahead with their haste. I don't blame Wraith players for this though, I recognize it's a skill issue. On the other end of the spectrum, I escape Skull Merchants more than I do Wraith because I learned when to disable drones, when not to and just do the generator it's on, and how to either greed a loop depending on stacks I have or when to drag it out as long as possible for my team to do what they need to do.

    Does SM need adjustments? Probably. I personally think having both haste/hindered in a kit is a bit much but I don't think her power is all that bad to go against anymore, as someone who plays a lot of M1 killers myself.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,787
    edited March 9

    That's you though, I know from personal experience that a LOT of other survivors don't know about the changes because I play her as well. I also read around different posts and some people think she has built in aura reading somehow.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564

    If that was only me, sure. I'd take it and move on. But that's not only me. That's a lot survivors. That's probably majority of survivors who hates this killers and going to next match instead of play.

    And no, survivors just knows she changed. Old drones was exposing you, new one is just adding stack. Anyone can see different here but yet, survivors don't love this killer and they are moving to next.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,787

    Last time I played SM I got 2 DCs and they stayed to yell at me for using her "instant-down" drones... iirc they were Epic or Windows Store players as well.

    I'm not saying EVERY survivor is wrong or they can't hate this killer, but I am saying from my experience far too many survivors haven't been catching up with patch notes which I find to be a huge problem as a Sadako main who still sees survivors ignore tapes.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564

    I am not saying you are wrong, i am sure there is some people who don't know she changed. But even people who knows she changed hates her.

    So this killer is just overall problem and this won't stop until BHVR fully rework her.

    It's obvious, survivor don't love area blocker killers. Hag and Trapper also does that but they are using a lot time for this and survivors can remove their powers. But SM is really not like that.

    It's pretty easy to put drones to loops and survivors can't remove her power. Because drones will turn to on after 45 seconds ( this was a cooldown if i am not mistaken ) or she will just replace it easily. We don't love this killer and if she won't change, that hate will not go anywhere.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,787

    I do think those are valid points, what I have a problem with mainly though is giving up on hook or dismissing her entirely.

    I'm not really a massive fan of SM herself, and I do think parts of her kit should be tweaked better, but I also recognize I don't see them very often and when I do, I have better matches against them than I do other killers considered weak by many I've seen talked about like Wraith and... Dang now that I think about it it's just Wraith I have problems with.

    Anyway, point is I actually think her power as of right now is in the right direction, but it needs to be tweaked to be more fair at time management (your example of how easy it is to place them fits well) and in my opinion having both haste and hindered needing to be addressed. What worries me is players inflating her killrate with hook throws specifically to inflate the numbers, because even I see it so frequently when I play as fair as possible with her, even more than 2.0 Sadako, that I can't help but think we won't get her in a decent spot for both sides.

  • skull_negotiator
    skull_negotiator Member Posts: 9

    If this was exclusive to SM, I'd stay silent. But players off themselves or DC as soon as they see a bunch of killers. When I play survivor, I always see people DC or throw the game as soon as they hear the terror radius. They recognize it's a killer they don't like, start bawling and ruin the match for everyone. And it's for every killer.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
    edited March 9

    Non of killers are getting that much DCs, only SM. Sure survivors are giving up against any killer. Even Trapper. But question is that how ofthen this happens? There is no killer even close to SM's level by DC & suicide wise.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521

    Eh, Nurse, Knight and Cenobite all get a considerable number of DCs too.

    SM gets most of the social media hate but she's not the only killer I would say the majority of survivors hate.

  • skull_negotiator
    skull_negotiator Member Posts: 9

    Do you have numbers for other killers as well? If you do, care to share?

  • GannTM
    GannTM Member Posts: 10,867
    edited March 10

    Why do we even need to debate this? It’s not subjective that SM is a terribly designed killer. The game will be better off without her so hopefully BHVR does the right thing eventually.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,736

    this killer is problematic. why? it's not because of her "get to a loop place a drone" gameplay loop, not even because of her stealth. it's that she can cover ALL THE SAFETY a survivor can run to in some maps with her drones. okay i understand trapper can do that too and it's okay that playing against a killer can get tedious; but the counterplay to that issue is practically non existent. what are survivors gonna do, disable the drones? how many times do you have to disable them running around the map since they only stay disabled for 45 seconds?

  • anarchy753
    anarchy753 Member Posts: 4,212

    Yeah, biggest issue with her for me is how much ######### she has going on.

    If it were just a killer that gets faster and slows survivors would be an interesting dynamic alone, but the fact that on top of that there's cross map injuring and THE ENTIRE MAP is covered in drones at all times, it makes her feel like an absolute slog to play against with too much in her favour.

    They really need to tone down the size of the drones, because as it is she has most of the gens covered 24/7 AND it locks down most useful areas of the map as well. The absolute lack of downside to removing and replacing a damaged drone make it feel useless to even TRY to counteract her.

    Either damaging a drone should just flat out break it instead of temporarily disabling it, or removing a currently disabled drone should give her a cooldown before she can place a new one to prevent the instantaneous "that was broken, now it's not, also I'm undetectable."

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521

    Plague also has one of the highest kill rates in the game what are you talking about her being weak not to mention anyone actually experienced in this game not only puts her A tier but as a top 6-7 killer.

    Not to mention the insanity of saying pick rate = strength when Artist has one of the lowest pick rates in the game and is also one of the strongest killers in the game.

    You can't just say random things and pass them off as an argument lmao.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
    edited March 10

    Do i have to?

    Her kill-rate proves something wrong with her.

    I am playing both roles and people are not giving up against other killers too much.

    And if there was another problematic killer as like SM, you would see more posts about them on forum but you don't.

    If those are not good enough for you, no i don't have.

  • Hannacia
    Hannacia Member Posts: 1,283

    I got 4 of them yesterday.. Are people playing her just to spite people now? Safe to say i didnt stay in any of those games. I tripped and ended up in a hook early and i didn't get lucky with my 4%.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    So you are saying that her 70% killrate is not because of suicides? Thats a new one. Usually her killrate gets "defended" that those stats are inccorect because of inflated killrates due to survivors not interested in playing against her.

    Either way, we have a problem that requires to be fixed.

  • menacing_goose
    menacing_goose Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 118

    I’m genuinely confused as to why skull merchant has so much to her kit. She could get an injure put someone into mending hinder them get undetectable and haste and all without having to touch the survivor. Sure it makes sense to benefit a killer for using their power especially if it’s one harder to use but she quite literally doesn’t have to do anything and gets benefited for it.

  • Witchubtet
    Witchubtet Member Posts: 640
    edited March 10

    It’s because she is a per M1 killer with no range and a very noticeable power. So to make a threat she gets buffs from interactions with her drones.


    Placing a drone grants her stealth

    Enemies getting detected grant her speed

    Enemies getting clipped can either injure or break

    Her strength now is discouragement and Chasing, remember standing still as the drone scans will not scan you. Treat her like old Viktor backpack, she needs to be distracted so the others can kill her power.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,318

    these post were nowhere to be found until BVHR posts kill-rate stats... which are misleading especially for killer like Onryo[survivors being clueless] and Skull merchant[D/C entitlement].